Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Jury]

I've given Arteta a clean slate and have accepted he is not going anywhere. I only started piping up when Arteta's past got celebrated, but I've said my piece I'm over it, I don't really know or care what the past few pages have been about.

The two wins and the manner of them have been good, Jesus and Saliba have been a pleasant surprise - we should probably focus on that.

I think he’s done well to get the fans and players united and believing again. I would’ve been fine to see him sacked at the end of last season because 13 losses was unacceptable imo ,but in hindsight i think it could well have been a mistake in light of what we’ve seen of his relationship with the players and how much they’ve bought in to his process. I’m just glad that the club have backed the club at the end of the day, by allowing a proper rebuild. Whether he’s here or not at the end of the season, we’re in a good position as a club. Couldn’t give a **** how much we’ve spent – I don’t know why people are even talking about that. This is what we wanted isn’t it? I want a team to be proud of and I think we’re on the way with or without Mikel.

 

[samspade]

You were responding with your blueprint talk to a post talking about us having started the season well. Why would you even mention a blueprint when the last season ended horribly, what else could you refer to?

I see @grange fantasising about people "coming back as fans" when you were anti Arteta yourself for a good minute. Embarrassing but to be expected. Always happens with converts, very little knowledge but a whole lot of froth at the mouth.

I was responding to this part particularly:

I am of the view that if someone performs poorly and then things improve , i don’t labour on the past. With your view, you’d write off a player if they scored a hatful of goals just because the season before they scored hardly any.
What matters is now.

Because I feel it's highly compatible with my view that if the process is safe and methodical and produces sustained success then the time investment and 8th place finishes don't matter to me. I think that the evidence is piling up in favour of the idea that we are going to have a very high quality, sustainable operation soon. If we achieve that then i don't particularly care about letting a manager make mistakes to get there, I even think it's commendable and shows vision.

But I don't think that two wins are proof of concept, I believe that's your spin.

 

[Arsenal4life14]

Just think we were heading down the same path as United before Arteta came in, Their was a big disconnect between the fans and the club after Emery, There was no strategy or purpose in the transfer windows and a lot more issues.

People knock Arteta but he come in and has steadied the ship for the first couple of years while reconstructing the team and reconnecting the fans with the club all while on limited experience as a manager, People laugh and mock his non-negotiables, which are apparently respect, commitment and passion, they are everyday things for any person in life to succeed in what they do, breading that through the club is what we need and what we have needed for over 5 years, Players that actually want to play for this club and give their all every single game, and that's transmitting onto the field with a lot of the players.

Even if he was to leave now or get sacked were in a much better position than when he took over, we have a young hungry team with plenty of talent and that is largely down to him, But he needs to take the next step this season now, He's got rid of most the players he didn't want, The club have brought in some players he believes he can work with, so Arteta can't have many excuses at the end of the season, it has to be top 4 and a really good cup run.

 

[Makingtrax]

With the same players Wenger had, I’d have backed any manager to get fourth with those, yes. Whether they did or not would be a different story. Never got a chance to see it. What does it matter anyway, it’s all history. You should be looking to the now and the future, not like some hung up weirdo looking back to 2014 every day like some. Enough time has passed now to make that period completely irrelevant and just not worth talking about. It just seems the more game we win the angrier and the more hung up people are getting. And it’s not even through provocation now either We’ve won two games, looked good in the process, and people are crying about the money we’ve spent… wtf is this?

Lol. The only way you can keep justifying the rubbish you spouted back then is by pretending Wenger had superb players that any manager could have got top 4 with, when in truth, facts show he spent 9 years buying all players from sales without 1p from the club. Compare that to now when we’re the top investing club in Europe and you’ve twerking for a guy whose been a top 8 manager for 3 seasons.

 

[grange]

I see @grange fantasising about people "coming back as fans" when you were anti Arteta yourself for a good minute. Embarrassing but to be expected. Always happens with converts, very little knowledge but a whole lot of froth at the mouth.

@samspade, see what I mean? They don't even know what they're reacting to at this point. Just making it all up as they go along with the agenda.

 

[Oxeki]

If we have a good season (top 4 and win a cup) I frankly couldn’t care less about (8th,8th,5th). That’s the point. Don’t know why anyone would.

Not too long ago, fans were screaming thunder when we finished 4th and won an FA cup. But now it's considered a good season after outspending the rest if Europe?

Never thought I'd see the day.

 

[jones]

I was responding to this part particularly:

Because I feel it's highly compatible with my view that if the process is safe and methodical and produces sustained success then the time investment and 8th place finishes don't matter to me. I think that the evidence is piling up in favour of the idea that we are going to have a very high quality, sustainable operation soon. If we achieve that then i don't particularly care about letting a manager make mistakes to get there, I even think it's commendable and shows vision.

But I don't think that two wins are proof of concept, I believe that's your spin.

What's your proof of concept then? A good feeling around the club or good, expensive signings? Because those aren't particularly solid evidence that the manager himself is doing well.

 

[Xln]

Not too long ago, fans were screaming thunder when we finished 4th and won an FA cup. But now it's considered a good season after outspending the rest if Europe?

Never thought I'd see the day.

Did we outspend the rest of Europe though? Afaik Utd and City spent a billion on their squads, no? Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm never looking at those stats.

 

[Rex Stone]

I was happy when we got top 4 under Wenger and I’ll be happy now.

Still think it’ll be us and Sp**s in a title race though. Don’t see Liverpool or City having the depth.

 

[samspade]

What's your proof of concept then? A good feeling around the club or good, expensive signings? Because those aren't particularly solid evidence that the manager himself is doing well.

The proof is in the pudding, but you take note of the hints until you get a final verdict either way.

Based on the personnel and continued evolution of our version of positional play, I think we're in for some extremely exciting football. You're lying to me if you don't get excited by some of the combinations we produce. All of our rivals have expensively assembled squads but not many of them produce explosive and ambitious football- even Liverpool don't play for space in pockets very ambitiously, they stay safe and capitalise on transitions mostly. I think that we will be the most entertaining team in the league this season.

I think the talent id has been solid and the profiles have been intelligently chosen as we haven't been very attractive to players recently. And I think the way that we're transitioning to this Pep style positional play is impressive. It seems like a very difficult thing to achieve to me, perhaps my ignorance betrays me here but it seems like there's one team in the world that does it convincingly and there's one that does it semi convincingly (us). I think it maybe very reasonable to say that Arteta is the second best proponent of positional play in the world. Of course I'm not an expert on this stuff.

The only things that dog me are what we do about off the pitch circumstances concerning a certain player and what we know of the treatment of Auba even though I think he was dusted.

 

[Arsenal4life14]

Not too long ago, fans were screaming thunder when we finished 4th and won an FA cup. But now it's considered a good season after outspending the rest if Europe?

Never thought I'd see the day.

Money isn't a guarantee win in this day and age either especially in the PL. Newcastle the richest club in the world now I'm certain wont get in the top 4 in the next 5 years, Probably wont even get a title within the next 10 years.

You also need to look at the era were in though, 120m is a lot but it doesn't go a long way in todays market.

10 years ago when Chelsea were spending 120m a season you could easily get 5 or 6 top class players, In todays market your lucky if you'll get 3.

 

[Makingtrax]

I was happy when we got top 4 under Wenger and I’ll be happy now.

Totally agree. There’s very few long standing members can say that though.

 

[Trilly]

Whilst "any A-M could do it" is a gross exaggeration,

And it’s just childish to take what is clearly an exaggeration and use that to start mocking posters who aren’t enamoured with Mikel.

Despite everything that’s happened. There still isn’t a strong tangible reason to insist on Mikel being the guy, hasn’t been one since the FA cup at the end of the day.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

Not too long ago, fans were screaming thunder when we finished 4th and won an FA cup. But now it's considered a good season after outspending the rest if Europe?

Never thought I'd see the day.

Not too long ago it was considered disappointing if we didn’t win the league.
What shall we do, call everything a failure if we don’t win every year ? Not for me. Where the club is now matters to what I consider a good season, not what we did 6 or 7 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

Did we outspend the rest of Europe though? Afaik Utd and City spent a billion on their squads, no? Correct me if I'm wrong as I'm never looking at those stats.

The money spent under Arteta is a lot, but comparing that to City’s last 2 years misses the fact they already had a team worth hundreds of millions.
As you say, if you take our current squads purchase value it is hundreds of millions less than City’s. In fact it’s 5th most in the league, behind City, Liverpool, Utd and Chelsea. Not really Arteta’s fault that the squad was in a mess when he took over and needed wholesale changes. I am just happy the owners have agreed to rebuild.

 

[Trilly]

If Arsenal spend, say, £100m in a window and Liverpool spend £80m, you get posters saying "we outspent Liverpool". Ok, that's nice. But they are ignoring the flaming obvious point that Liverpool already had Salah, they already had VVD, they already had Alisson etc. and they're spending more to bring in the likes of Nunez. If you want to catch them up you have to get to where they were first, and then keep going. That doesn't happen by outspending them by £20m in a window, or £100m in three windows. Its the difference of 1-2 players when Liverpool were better in more or less every single position when Arteta took over.

Which is why it’s better to combine money spent + time as manager. Think Mikel has now spent the same amount as Klopp did just before they became a serious threat. I don’t know the exact specifics but 300M in and Klopp was challenging for titles and getting to CL finals.

Compare what we do this season to what Liverpool did 300M into their project and the difference in outcomes is roughly the difference between Mikel and Klopp.

For me if that difference is too big then he’s not the right man for the job.

 

[2Smokeyy]

Didn’t Klopp get top 4 with the likes of Clyne, Toure, Skrtel, Moreno, Lallana, Ibe, Allen, Lucas, Origi and Benteke as regulars?

He managed to work with what he had initially tbf.

 

[Trilly]

That's my whole point. Some of the stuff being posted here, be it pro or anti arteta, is clearly tongue in cheek.

Yes, there are a couple of Rasmis here and there, but who on earth pays attention to them anyways? It's like paying attention to @Riou trying to start something by posting a tweet and running for the hills.

Granted, @Riou is (hopefully) not a possible serial sexual assualt machine like Rasmi was, but you get the point.

Wait where’s Rasmi?

And who’s Riou? I thought it was @Poou?

 

[Makingtrax]

I think it maybe very reasonable to say that Arteta is the second best proponent of positional play in the world. Of course I'm not an expert on this stuff.

Two sentences that immediately contradict each other. And sums up the unsubstantiated hyperbole surrounding his achievements so far.

 

[samspade]

Two sentences that immediately contradict each other. And sums up the unsubstantiated hyperbole surrounding his achievements so far.

Explain the contradiction. I have doubts about my opinion as I'm learning about it.