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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

pigge

#Pigge #Equality

Player:Martinelli
100% irrelevant
Lets say both Arsenal and liverpool have Messi.

Arsenal sell messi to buy lets say another messi.
Liverpool doesnt sell Messi, but adds another messi to play for them

You believe there is no difference?

You are saying that Arsène wenger not spending any money except that what he was selling is 100% irrelevent to chelsea and man city's ways of spending?
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
Not sure where I’ve been dramatic. I don’t think your expectations tally up here. What is acceptable to you specifically? I thought you were okay 4th place finishes.
My expectation is that he starts to perform like an Arsenal manager now, a manager who is one of the best about. That's what this club deserves.

This whole thing started because I said that after a similar spend and time in the role, Klopp won a CL and got 97 points in the league. There's going to obviously be a gap in the outcome of the two projects because Klopp > Arteta but it shouldn't be huge.

Expecting around 20 points less than Klopp with a deep cup run (in easier tournaments) is more than fair. Back your boy ffs.
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
My expectation is that he starts to perform like an Arsenal manager now, a manager who is one of the best about. That's what this club deserves.

This whole thing started because I said that after a similar spend and time in the role, Klopp won a CL and got 97 points in the league. There's going to obviously be a gap in the outcome of the two projects because Klopp > Arteta but it shouldn't be huge.

Expecting around 20 points less than Klopp with a deep cup run (in easier tournaments) is more than fair. Back your boy ffs.
Well that’s mid 70’s points, perfectly reasonable. About where my expectations are. Not sure how or why this went off the rails.
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
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Country: England
The team was sitting near 15th when he took over and won a FA cup.

It's how you want to see it.

Well to be exact we were 11th place after matchday 18 (Arteta was in the stands for that Everton game, but officially took over in the next matchday against Bournemouth).
 
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samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
A personal worry I have is that I suspect we’re going to struggle against good teams this season.

We have a very front foot style atm and we struggle for really sustained control, feel like we’re going to see a lot of good football against top 4 rivals but also attacks that get soaked up before we get hit in transitions.

Suspect we’ll be flat track bullies, hope I’m wrong.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Well it sort of butchers whatever point you were making about the discrepancy between the board’s evaluation of the manager and the manager’s achievement.
I never made that point. The point I made was about the fans evaluation of him. @grange tried to counter my point by suggesting the board don’t rate him as highly as the fans and media do which is just weird but whatever.

That’s the problem though, look at all these useless side missions you get dragged into whenever someone who isn’t a fan tried to set expectations of Mikel. It’s pointless.

If you can’t expect about 77 points and a deep cup run from him then do you even rate him?
 

samspade

"You said I said" detection expert at your service
I never made that point. The point I made was about the fans evaluation of him. @grange tried to counter my point by suggesting the board don’t rate him as highly as the fans and media do which is just weird but whatever.

That’s the problem though, look at all these useless side missions you get dragged into whenever someone who isn’t a fan tried to set expectations of Mikel. It’s pointless.

If you can’t expect about 77 points and a deep cup run from him then do you even rate him?
I don’t really want this to go on forever but he said they considered him a rookie but you pointed out a contract which he got after 2 1/2 years on the job where he’d actually already achieved the position his pay puts him in. You hadn’t answered my perfectly logical question and I merely pointed out that it wasn’t a particularly noteworthy decision.

So 77 points is what you expect specifically? Is he getting sacked otherwise? I think I’d put my number at 75. But then what I see on the pitch makes me believe.

I won’t have conte or tuchel football regardless of points. I think this regime has more potential to be fun than most. And if it proves to be then that earns him some leeway.

I guess 70 goals would be an expectation.

Edit: make that 75.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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So 77 points is what you expect specifically? Is he getting sacked otherwise? I think I’d put my number at 75. But then what I see on the pitch makes me believe.

I won’t have conte or tuchel football regardless of points. I think this regime has more potential to be fun than most.
I landed at 77 because of Klopp’s 97 minus 20. Pretty arbitrary. I’d argue that 20 points is way too much of a leash but that’s for another day.

Think 75+ points is fair enough tbh. Turn at least three of those thirteen losses into two wins and a draw.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
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Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
A personal worry I have is that I suspect we’re going to struggle against good teams this season.

We have a very front foot style atm and we struggle for really sustained control, feel like we’re going to see a lot of good football against top 4 rivals but also attacks that get soaked up before we get hit in transitions.

Suspect we’ll be flat track bullies, hope I’m wrong.

Yes, and its why I am so concerned with our control of games, specifically how the ball moves in and out of possession. We must focus on getting this aspect of our game right, if we want to take our game to the next level this season.

Bigger teams with better players will attack the space behind us and damage us, if we are not careful.
 
D

Deleted member 102404

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Posting like that just exposes the guys with an agenda tbh :lol:

I think the Liverpool squad Klopp inherited was better than the squad Arteta inherited
I stand by that. It’s not even close.
I am not going to go into player by player because then we’d end up arguing over individuals that I think are poor and you think are world class (hint)

The actual reason for the challenge to your idea of assessing Arteta was actually to do with how unsound it was. Layers of subjectivity to set up a conclusion you wanted to reach.

I would love to know what ‘agenda’ you think I have.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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I think the Liverpool squad Klopp inherited was better than the squad Arteta inherited
I stand by that. It’s not even close.
Agenda confirmed!
I am not going to go into player by player because then we’d end up arguing over individuals that I think are poor and you think are world class. (Hint)
No, you’re not going to go into it because you’re know you’re being ridiculous.
 
D

Deleted member 102404

Guest
Agenda confirmed!

No, you’re not going to go into it because you’re know you’re being ridiculous.

Which agenda is that?

In think it’s fairly obvious that debating an entire squad of players with you is pointless as you already reached a conclusion and are now claiming if I disagree I have an agenda. Doesn’t make for much of a discussion /shrugs
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
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Player:Saliba
I landed at 77 because of Klopp’s 97 minus 20. Pretty arbitrary. I’d argue that 20 points is way too much of a leash but that’s for another day.

Think 75+ points is fair enough tbh. Turn at least three of those thirteen losses into two wins and a draw.
This is a very good squad, I don't think 77 points is a bad guess. If Arteta doesn't get too many injuries I could see it being a bit more tbf?
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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This is a very good squad, I don't think 77 points is a bad guess. If Arteta doesn't get too many injuries I could see it being a bit more tbf?
On paper yeah tbh, can’t see it happening though.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
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I think Arteta’s biggest struggle here has been his lack of ability to put games to bed. The Palace win was a bit misleading, as we showed similar problems to last season and could have been 1-1 a couple times.

We need to stop taking the foot off the gas and going ultra conservative after only going a goal up. I get it when it’s a tough team or past the 75’ mark but doing it in the first half is inviting problems.

Leicester was just an open weird game but I hope in the rest of the tense matches we play we start to put team to bed more while we are on top. We are certainly capable of it but it comes from the manager down.

Imo that will be the difference between top4 and top6.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
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Player:Rice
One of the issues you can point out with Arteta is actually his pedigree.

I've heard enough people in the game that I respect say Arteta was a great assistant/ coach working one on one with players. I believe it's true. No reason not too.

The issue is the skillset for being a great coach / assistant Is not always transferable to the managerial role. It's a much broader skillset. We've seen that with Quieroz, Clement etc.

Often times I think we view the Assistant Managers job as a stepping stone to a full managerial role but I think it's often a specialist position. Pat Rice was a great number 2. I don't think he'd have been a good manager.

I think Arteta is evolving in a positive manner in that respect but I believe for maybe the first 18 months or so he was actually trying to manage as an assistant/ coach.

Overloading the players with information, excessively micromanaging, not delegating etc.

Stuff like that's good when you've got one project player you're working with. Like his work with Sterling at Man City. It's okay doing that with 1-2 players at a time but you can't do it with 30 players at a time.

If you try doing that with basically the whole squad, which I think he did early doors, you're not just going to burn the players out you're going to burn yourself out as manager.
 

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