Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[samspade]

I agree with this, but I’m still not totally convinced that a manager only has one system that can succeed and needs to buy players of a profile that will suit that system. It seems crazy. I’ve never seen that happen at any other club. Even Pep who has bought a more traditional goal hanger, old fashioned style CF, has adapted his system to suit the player because he’s so good at what he does. They’re now banging in more crosses to get the goals instead of the more intricate stuff that Jesus and Sterling provided.

Do you think he’s adding anything to the operation? Do you think he’s good at anything? I just fail to see why you wouldn’t swap him out based on your posts. Wouldn’t a better, more flexible manager do better with the excellent squad we’ve compiled by outspending every team in europe?

 

[Deleted member 102404]

I agree with this, but I’m still not totally convinced that a manager only has one system that can succeed and needs to buy players of a profile that will suit that system. It seems crazy. I’ve never seen that happen at any other club. Even Pep who has bought a more traditional goal hanger, old fashioned style CF, has adapted his system to suit the player because he’s so good at what he does. They’re now banging in more crosses to get the goals instead of the more intricate stuff that Jesus and Sterling provided.

City did win the league with their last approach before this season, though.
We don't have Haaland. If we did maybe the way they are playing would be what we'd be doing.
This season if we get anything like the outcomes City got with Jesus and Sterling, I'll be very happy.
I mean our system is working pretty well now, isn't it? Or are you saying we could have kept the old squad and put a system in place that suited them and we'd be doing as well as we are now?

 

[KrissKringle]

Wouldn’t a better, more flexible manager do better with the excellent squad we’ve compiled by outspending every team in europe?

In the almost 3 years he's been in charge and the money he's spent? Yes. A more flexible manager would have done better than him, but the board continued to give him trust and for the most part, he's been delivering this season.
He made Xhaka into a more efficient player and we do seem to have an idea of how we're playing now.

On the other hand, we're still making mistakes at the back and there's at least 1 each game that is turning into a goal.

Like @Makingtrax said, it would be stupid to replace him now, but if he doesn't get us CL this season, I think he should probably be sacked. If he does, then carry on as usual.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

In the almost 3 years he's been in charge and the money he's spent? Yes. A more flexible manager would have done better than him, but the board continued to give him trust and for the most part, he's been delivering this season.
He made Xhaka into a more efficient player and we do seem to have an idea of how we're playing now.

On the other hand, we're still making mistakes at the back and there's at least 1 each game that is turning into a goal.

Like @Makingtrax said, it would be stupid to replace him now, but if he doesn't get us CL this season, I think he should probably be sacked. If he does, then carry on as usual.

I don't think there is any doubt he'll be sacked if he fails to get top 4 this season - as he should be.
I agree on the defensive errors too. We need to get that out of game. Sometimes, because of the way we play, we'll be opened up when we lose possession. That is acceptable, but the silly errors need to be far fewer.

 

[Entropics]

That seems to be the biggest reason to keep Arteta though, the squad is his, that's it. It's also a reason I'm quite confident he won't get sacked if he fails again.

I do believe you give most managers the freedom to rebuild their entire team from scratch and they can do better in virtually all areas, playing more interesting football too, comfortably. They wouldn't take 3 years to give you the excitement Arteta finally did after a kind run of fixtures and a derby at home we always win anyway

 

[Makingtrax]

City did win the league with their last approach before this season, though.
We don't have Haaland. If we did maybe the way they are playing would be what we'd be doing.
This season if we get anything like the outcomes City got with Jesus and Sterling, I'll be very happy.
I mean our system is working pretty well now, isn't it? Or are you saying we could have kept the old squad and put a system in place that suited them and we'd be doing as well as we are now?

What we’ve got now is working well. I’m just saying it’s not normal for a manager to have a system he wants to play and the club has to buy a unique set of players to fit it.

 

[Makingtrax]

That seems to be the biggest reason to keep Arteta though, the squad is his, that's it. It's also a reason I'm quite confident he won't get sacked if he fails again.

I don’t see that bro. If he fails again this season, and I don’t think he will, he needs to go. There’s only so much time and money any club can put in for a novice to come good.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

What we’ve got now is working well. I’m just saying it’s not normal for a manager to have a system he wants to play and the club has to buy a unique set of players to fit it.

Yup, that is unusual, but I think maybe the club decided that we needed to replace a lot of the squad anyway? So in that case buying new players to fit in a system makes more sense. There are probably only one or two players I could really say we should have kept from the first team 3 years ago.

 

[Deleted member 102404]

I don’t see that bro. If he fails again this season, and I don’t think he will, he needs to go. There’s only so much time and money any club can put in for a novice to come good.

Agreed. TBH I don't care who's manager at this point (within reason of course) - the makings of a good squad is already in place and could easily be the core for the next 5-6 years. Any good manager coming in has a pretty good platform to work with. Credit to Edu and Arteta for building the squad on top of some very good young players that came through from earlier, but not delivering with it now is not acceptable.

I don't want us to scrape top 4 either. Mentioned before, min 80 points, min 80 goals.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

I agree with this, but I’m still not totally convinced that a manager only has one system that can succeed and needs to buy players of a profile that will suit that system. It seems crazy. I’ve never seen that happen at any other club. Even Pep who has bought a more traditional goal hanger, old fashioned style CF, has adapted his system to suit the player because he’s so good at what he does. They’re now banging in more crosses to get the goals instead of the more intricate stuff that Jesus and Sterling provided.

Yeah, but the difference is Pep can buy elite level players in every position.

Generally the weaker the player the less likely they are going to excel playing out of their comfort zone / position / tactics. Like Holding is not going to become a ball playing CB however hard he tries etc.

Pep is fiddling with his side from an already exceptionally strong position. Arteta is largely building a new squad. That's the difference for me. I imagine Pep was probably spending similar or more sums in his first 2.5 years or so and was fundamentally changing the make up of his side to suit his tactical plans. Pep didn't decide to alter his style of play when he worked out Joe Hart couldn't play out from the back, for example. He just binned him.

I agree that Arteta's been fortunate both in terms of time and resources to do it though.

 

[samspade]

In the almost 3 years he's been in charge and the money he's spent? M

That’s not the question I asked. So I’ll ask again and you can answer too if you like.
@Makingtrax what’s he contributing currently? If it’s all about the squad and the money spent, why wouldn’t one of these managers come in and do better than him immediately?

 

[Deleted member 102404]

Yeah, but the difference is Pep can buy elite level players in every position.

Generally the weaker the player the less likely they are going to excel playing out of their comfort zone / position / tactics. Like Holding is not going to become a ball playing CB however hard he tries etc.

Pep is fiddling with his side from an already exceptionally strong position. Arteta is largely building a new squad. That's the difference for me. I imagine Pep was probably spending similar or more sums in his first 2.5 years or so and was fundamentally changing the make up of his side to suit his tactical plans. Pep didn't decide to alter his style of play when he worked out Joe Hart couldn't play out from the back, for example. He just binned him.

I agree that Arteta's been fortunate both in terms of time and resources to do it though.

Pep has spent £1.3bn since he arrived.
Staggering amount.
His first 3 years was well over £500m

 

[Entropics]

I don’t see that bro. If he fails again this season, and I don’t think he will, he needs to go. There’s only so much time and money any club can put in for a novice to come good.

The process is unprecedented though, no manager has enjoyed this backing in the PL ever. The only remotely similar scenario is Mourinho's Chelsea who did deliver results quickly so he could continue shaping the team however he wanted.

Arteta has shown he doesn't really need results to keep himself of the job. Being top of the league by matchday 8 might be enough for the owners to give him more time as long as the fans are content with it.

 

[KrissKringle]

what’s he contributing currently?

Currently the squad is balanced and settled. There are no more scandals (so far) and some patterns for our game have been set.

If it’s all about the squad and the money spent, why wouldn’t one of these managers come in and do better than him immediately?

I'm a bit confused by this question. Are you asking why wasn't a more capable manager appointed in his place?

 

[blrgooner]

Some really funny posts as usual. Trying hard to ensure that no credit is given to Arteta while at the same time ensuring that the post contains some kind of acknowledgement of the current improvement so that one can point out that part when questioned.

Unprecedented backing, huge money spent, Any manager can achieve good results if he is allowed to replace the entire squad(one would think we are the new age galacticos based on that comment) etc.. mostly clearly agenda based takes but idea is to keep repeating that here and bore people into submission.

 

[samspade]

I'm a bit confused by this question. Are you asking why wasn't a more capable manager appointed in his place?

How can I put the question more simply? Swap him today for one of these managers who are supposed to be better than him, why doesn’t the team immediately start getting better and do better this season as result?

 

[blrgooner]

That’s not the question I asked. So I’ll ask again and you can answer too if you like.
@Makingtrax what’s he contributing currently? If it’s all about the squad and the money spent, why wouldn’t one of these managers come in and do better than him immediately?

Why, even the experts here in AM who are tactical geniuses can do at least as well as him. Isn't that obvious? Haven't we spent the highest amount of money ever spent? Only requirement would be for that person to be given complete backing to replace any player in the squad. This is a secret nobody else in the EPL know about and thus needs to be preserved.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Here's our 6 game rolling form under Arteta since he took over...
Notable is the lowest period - I don't think even Arteta's biggest fan could argue that he should not have been sacked at that point.
The trend upwards (red dotted line) is quite clear though - but it's punctuated by significant dips in form.
To get top 4 - staying above that solid red line, the main thing we need to do is bounce back after a loss. Too often last year we followed up a loss with another and another. That can't happen 3 or 4 times in a season for a top 4 side.
It's one of the big things I will look out for this season - when we lose a game, how do we play in the next? First example is the Utd game and we passed, but there will be more over the course of the season. Losses are ok, will happen over a season, 2 or 3 in a row are generally not.

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I would actually argue that we should have kept Arteta as we did. All managers go through bad periods. Klopp is going through a bad period now for his own standards. You even hear Liverpool fans already talk about sacking him. It is usually what teams like Chelsea would do. But Liverpool will be wise to keep Klopp and back him in the market.

I'm glad we stuck with Arteta because the trained eyes and people who know football knew that Arteta is a top-class manager since day one. Other people who don't know that much wanted Conte to come in and work with what he has and try to do something with that. But it's just all bullshit and not how stuff works.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Glad to see all the graphs that there has been obvious progress under Arteta. Everyone who wanted notice it just with the eyes but all the data is in favor of the main man behind our progression! We got our Artenal back!

 

[samspade]

Why, even the experts here in AM who are tactical geniuses can do at least as well as him. Isn't that obvious? Haven't we spent the highest amount of money ever spent? Only requirement would be for that person to be given complete backing to replace any player in the squad. This is a secret nobody else in the EPL know about and thus needs to be preserved.

I’m pretty frustrated with how the last couple of pages have gone, but I really want to avoid any meta commentary on posters and their takes. That’s why asked the Bellingham question, because it’s well removed from the whole ‘does he deserve the backing’ ‘he’s lucky not to have been sacked’ end of the debate (wonder how we ended up there).

The question I would ask is how often h do we see teams in europe produce football as entertaining as what we have now? I would say not often at all and that’s largely down to the manager.