Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[jones]

@jones Surely you have the balls to say you’d sack him tomorrow for one of the league’s ‘superior’ managers

I wouldn't sack him in the middle of a good run. Maybe he's found a formula after bumbling around like an idiot for years, it's happened elsewhere too ie at Milan where Pioli was mediocre most of his career and now has them running like a machine.

If we go back to another of those dreadful barren spells of seasons past I wouldn't show him the door I'd kick him through it.

 

[KrissKringle]

If all these managers are clearly better and our process doesn’t mean much why not just go for a better one? Wouldn’t their ceiling be higher?

Too expensive when they'll have to sack him. Arteta doesn't have the clout to warrant 20-30 mil if that happens, like an Ancelotti, Mourinho, Conte etc.

You say it would be silly to sack him at this point, give me an actual reason why it’s silly. Is it because they wouldn’t be as suited as Arteta to this squad? Does that mean Arteta is good with these type players? Give me something

I already answered it. Now that he finally seems to be delivering, why would you sack him? You have to wait till the end of the season and see how he fared.

Seems like you're really asking silly questions that have clear answers.

 

[jones]

Why is there a risk of it backfiring? A much a better manager should just do a much better job with such a premium squad shouldn’t they? What’s the mechanism that leads to a risk of back firing?

What about if we finish second or have a genuine tilt at the title while scoring lots of goals and continuing to play this football, you still shooting him come season’s end?

What would you say if Haaland became available next window? Would you ditch Jesus for him after he's had a good first season for us? Or Vinicius or Leao to upgrade on Martinelli?

 

[Deleted member 102404]

Let's try give Arteta all the credit then - why did it take three years for us to have a sustained run of good form if the money spent isn't the reason?

Isn't it even counterintuitive to even buy new players when the likes of Holding Laca Auba etc have enjoyed Artetas presence teachings and grace for longer than Jesus or Ødegaard?

It didn't take us 3 years to have good runs of form.
The start of this season is quite similar to the run we had last year (after the first 3 games) - including the similar 3-1 result against Sp**s. I believe we went 8 games unbeaten picking up 20 points, although we scored 13 over that period, not 20 in 8 games. We did also have 3 other winning streaks of 5 and 4 games scoring a lot of goals.
Our problem last year was not that we couldn't reach the heights needed for top 4 (or higher) in terms of runs of form of 5 or even 8 games, it's that we couldn't avoid the significant dips in form at other times. My own view is that is to do with a thin squad and injuries along with a young team who were inconsistent.
It should be pointed out that we have 30 games left this year and there is no guarantee we won't see exactly the same thing. I am hoping not.

 

[samspade]

What would you say if Haaland became available next window? Would you ditch Jesus for him after he's had a good first season for us? Or Vinicius or Leao to upgrade on Martinelli?

You answering the second question?

Presumably this means your answer is ‘yes’. You would sack him in the summer after a genuine tilt at the title. In your analogy you used Haaland and Vinicius, does that mean you’re only sacking him for the absolute elite? Klopp and Pepe? Or are you sacking him for potter too?

 

[drippin]

Not really surprising that Arteta meant what he has been through with injuries, and accidentally said "and" rather than "with" in the live interview when English isn't his native language.

 

[KrissKringle]

Would another manager have done the job twice as fast?
Dunno man, that's a bit speculative. More experienced managers than Arteta have gone to clubs and struggled - Ancelotti at Everton, Benitez at Everton, Moyes at Utd, Ragnarok (or whatever his name was) at Utd, remains to be seen with Ten Haag at Utd, but early signs are not brilliant. I would also say that just maybe some of the big names may not have wanted to take some of the very big risks we have over the last 3 years.

Ancelotti isn't the type of manager that you bring at smaller clubs. He's like Pep. You bring him at a big club and he wins something with his Christmas tree formation.

Benitez was past it ever since he left Liverpool. Always taking notes and never improving.

Not sure why Moyes didn't work out, but he was hardly given a fair shake with just 10 months on the job and had the impossible task of replacing one of the greatest managers ever, so it was always an up hill battle.

Rangnick came in as an emergency when the club sacked Ole, so he was never going to get the time required.

When you appoint a big name as a manager you know he's going to ask for financial backing and it may be that we didn't want to spend a lot on both players and the manager's salary + his fee in the case of a sacking.

 

[boonthegoon]

Some really funny posts as usual. Trying hard to ensure that no credit is given to Arteta while at the same time ensuring that the post contains some kind of acknowledgement of the current improvement so that one can point out that part when questioned.

Unprecedented backing, huge money spent, Any manager can achieve good results if he is allowed to replace the entire squad(one would think we are the new age galacticos based on that comment) etc.. mostly clearly agenda based takes but idea is to keep repeating that here and bore people into submission.

Haters gonna hate
Agenda mania gonna agend

 

[jones]

It didn't take us 3 years to have good runs of form.
The start of this season is quite similar to the run we had last year (after the first 3 games) - including the similar 3-1 result against Sp**s. I believe we went 8 games unbeaten picking up 20 points, although we scored 13 over that period, not 20 in 8 games. We did also have 3 other winning streaks of 5 and 4 games scoring a lot of goals.

For a club of Arsenal's size winning four or five in a row shouldn't be especially notable and it didn't use to be. That early unbeaten run last season was littered with poor performances and not nearly as dominant as the start to this season, run started with a fluke win at home to Norwich, got dominated by Brighton, equaliser in injury time vs Palace etc. So yes, it did take us three years to have a real run of good form.

I don't disagree with the rest of your post but it had nothing to do with my post.

 

[blrgooner]

Let's try give Arteta all the credit then - why did it take three years for us to have a sustained run of good form if the money spent isn't the reason?

Isn't it even counterintuitive to even buy new players when the likes of Holding Laca Auba etc have enjoyed Artetas presence teachings and grace for longer than Jesus or Ødegaard?

Nah don't give him all the credit. I don't think he is superhuman and definitely had many poor moments. Blame him for his poor moments.

Money spent is not the reason simply because we haven't really spent significantly higher than other rivals( if we consider the cost to assemble the squad) and we haven't spent significantly higher than what we spent before Arteta came in. The area we have been poor is in sales. Arteta has a hand in our sales being poor i feel and i think there's a valid criticism there. But lets face it, the squad cost, squad quality and wages lead us to bring a top 4-6 team. And after that poor run of games till December 2020, we have been on par w.r.t that expectation.
Please note that i am not saying that he has been world class or anything like that. I am simply saying that he has achieved par. This season, we look really good and the way we are going, we could overachieve. The quality of football has also been slowly improving.
The idea that any random coach could do this is 2.5 years is laughable. Most managers get sacked because they perform below par. When people perform at par and show signs of improvement, they are kept and backed. This is completely normal and what most clubs do.

 

[jones]

You answering the second question?

Presumably this means your answer is ‘yes’. You would sack him in the summer after a genuine tilt at the title. In your analogy you used Haaland and Vinicius, does that mean you’re only sacking him for the absolute elite? Klopp and Pepe? Or are you sacking him for potter too?

No I wasn't answering the question I was asking you.

What would you say if Haaland became available next window? Would you ditch Jesus for him after he's had a good first season for us? Or Vinicius or Leao to upgrade on Martinelli?

 

[samspade]

I already answered it. Now that he finally seems to be delivering, why would you sack him? You have to wait till the end of the season and see how he fared.

Okay, Grahame Potter’s just become available, I need to act fast and I’ve decided he’s a better manager with a higher ceiling. So I decide to sack Arteta right now and appoint Grahame potter.

Why is what I’ve just done wrong? Surely it makes perfect sense for the long term aims of the club? If you’re like jones and you’re worried about it back firing, why is it going to back fire?

 

[samspade]

No I wasn't answering the question I was asking you.

What would you say if Haaland became available next window? Would you ditch Jesus for him after he's had a good first season for us? Or Vinicius or Leao to upgrade on Martinelli?

I’m a bad person to ask as I like our players and have a hard time letting them go. But a cold blooded person ditches Jesus for haaland, I’ve never seen leao play and I’m not a huge Vinicius fan. Could be convinced after more observation ofc.

What’s the purpose of this why didn’t you answer those questions?

 

[jones]

The idea that any random coach could do this is 2.5 years is laughable. Most managers get sacked because they perform below par. When people perform at par and show signs of improvement, they are kept and backed. This is completely normal and what most clubs do.

And after that poor run of games till December 2020, we have been on par w.r.t that expectation.

Do you think he deserved to stay after that run in December? Or that it was normal or what most clubs would do in that situation? Note that this isn't his first season, he's had a second big transfer window behind him and we were 15th at the end of this run.

 

[Riou]

Not really surprising that Arteta meant what he has been through with injuries, and accidentally said "and" rather than "with" in the live interview when English isn't his native language.

Arsenal's PR department after Mikel's Sp**s' interview...

 

[jones]

I’m a bad person to ask as I like our players and have a hard time letting them go.

How are you such a big Arteta fan then considering how cold blooded to use your term he ditched almost the entire squad of 2019? Or is this courtesy extended only to the current squad?

 

[KrissKringle]

Okay, Grahame Potter’s just become available, I need to act fast and I’ve decided he’s a better manager with a higher ceiling. So I decide to sack Arteta right now and appoint Grahame potter.

He's doing well right now. If Potter would have been available when we were in that slump last year, it would have made sense to sack Arteta and replace him with Potter. You give him the benefit of the doubt after this start of the season.

 

[blrgooner]

Do you think he deserved to stay after that run in December? Or that it was normal or what most clubs would do in that situation? Note that this isn't his first season, he's had a second big transfer window behind him and we were 15th at the end of this run.

View attachment 9593

No that was very poor and sackable. He is not the first manager to go on a bad run though and won't be there last.
It was not his second big transfer window though. It was after his first transfer window where we spent something like 70m(Partey and Gabriel) which doesn't seem too excessive.
From then on, it has been pretty much back to the form which we had shown before he came(2016-20) and showing signs of improvement.
If your argument is that we should continue using his form 2 years back as a reason to show that he hasn't done well then go ahead. Atleast make that part of your argument clear.

 

[jones]

Not really surprising that Arteta meant what he has been through with injuries, and accidentally said "and" rather than "with" in the live interview when English isn't his native language.

That doesn't really prove anything, of course he wouldn't say he meant anything else when there's a legal gagging order regarding yellow box.

Not saying he meant it or he didn't either way.

 

[Macho]

View attachment 9593

Nah big man ting how did he get away with this though?

I mean I'm over it and not trying to mock, but did we just blame the players? I think we blamed the players.