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Granit Xhaka: Xhak Off?

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BergMan

Betrayed by Xhaka
@AbouCuéllar He never made a huge amount of errors in the first place. I have seen Partey make more errors this season than Xhaka did on average when he was in a DM in a double pivot. But the reason Xhaka’s lesser amount of errors lead to goals yet Partey and Gabriel’s this season didn’t is simply because the team is much better, in many different ways.
And I remember using this argument with you long ago, that Xhaka was simply no where near as error prone as people made him out to be. I define errors as misplaced passes or dispossessions. You measure them out of a total number of actions (e.g total passes) and the actual number of errors have always been low. This incorrect perception of Xhaka to have been error prone seems to form the major basis of your argument.

When Xhaka was playing in Germany he was being directly compared to Xabi Alonso (who was playing for Bayern), and the plaudits for Xhaka was very high indeed. In Spain or Italy Xhaka would have been seen as identical to Alonso or Pirlo etc, in that similar role of a regista as part of a double pivot. They would never have played Alonso or Pirlo as a single pivot they know that to be su!cide, yet Wenger elected to do it with Granit when there was a lack of options.

I do agree with your point that Xhaka’s lesser overall stats this season is due to his different role. It leads to question whether you use stats that compare midfielders or stats that compare forwards to analyse him. Xhaka’s not going to fair favourably in any crab stat analysis this season due to his role, despite him playing such an important role in the team. Things like distance covered and tactical runs made don’t measure in these stats.
I simply made the point because I find it ironic and funny. That based on stats you normally use to analyse midfielders, it’s his worst season at the club yet the best in terms of the reception and praise he’s getting.
 

razörist

Soft With The Ladies, Hard With The Mes

Country: Morocco
The funny thing is, goals and assists aside, this has actually been statistically Granit’s worst season in terms of overall play since he’s been at the club. Passing, distribution, defending stats etc they are all at their lowest. You can check his crab stats this season, it’s not been good whilst in previous seasons it was amazing.

It’s very interesting. To me it just showcases people’s lack of ball knowledge (of premier league fans), all they see in football is attacking play, they don’t understand details. If Xhaka played in Spain or Italy he would be seen as one of the very best midfielders of all time even 5 years ago.
He’s playing a different role, more attacking, makes sense those stats looks worse right? Or is my football knowledge lacking here you arrogant prick? :lol:
 

TinFish

Well-Known Member
Lot of commotion recently in regards to too many Albanians coming over illegally by boat.

Well if anything, in the face of adversity and when **** hits the fan - Granit Xhaka has showed us all how to overcome negativity and prosper. Long may it continue!
 

razörist

Soft With The Ladies, Hard With The Mes

Country: Morocco
Lot of commotion recently in regards to too many Albanians coming over illegally by boat.

Well if anything, in the face of adversity and when **** hits the fan - Granit Xhaka has showed us all how to overcome negativity and prosper. Long may it continue!
Can see why Granit is the leader of this young team. He’s a guy who would back you 10 v 1, a warrior.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
And I remember using this argument with you long ago, that Xhaka was simply no where near as error prone as people made him out to be. I define errors as misplaced passes or dispossessions. You measure them out of a total number of actions (e.g total passes) and the actual number of errors have always been low. This incorrect perception of Xhaka to have been error prone seems to form the major basis of your argument.
I agree that he's nowhere near as error prone as people make him out to be, definitely. That's a consequence of the typical bias and over-reaction that exists on an online forum, and this
Such does our memory worked that these big errors linger more heavily in our memory for the emotional reaction they provoked in us that they bias too much our global analysis, if we don't check ourselves.
@AbouCuéllar He never made a huge amount of errors in the first place. I have seen Partey make more errors this season than Xhaka did on average when he was in a DM in a double pivot. But the reason Xhaka’s lesser amount of errors lead to goals yet Partey and Gabriel’s this season didn’t is simply because the team is much better, in many different ways.
I don't know if it's just a consequence of that, tbh, but it definitely plays an important factor, and I agree (let's face it, though it's taboo here with certain members to make certain sensible and common sense critiques of Wenger's later era: he used an extremely tactically risky and tactically wild football, so the existence of mistakes like these, especially from a 6--unless he is an incredibly mature and intelligent player or incredibly well suited for the role, as Arteta was, but not all of this applies to Xhaka under Wenger--is a natural consequence. Em*ry too of course didn't do him any favours with his very unclear and formless vision, and the team being in transition, something that also helps explain some of his errors under Arteta, though it's no surprise the best performances we've seen from Xhaka have come at the height of his maturity under a manager who his very tactically clear and detailed, with a very clear and defined tactical vision, and who is, in short, the best tactically under which Xhaka has played).

Re: Thomas yes and no, he's made errors but they've been more subtle and less damning (element of luck can play a role in this too, ie, not all big mistakes have to lead to goals or big punishment--red cards--but for Xhaka it seemed more than often they did) than Xhaka's, and hence Xhaka's live on stronger and longer in the memory of fans. The fact that they were more damning more often than not is also helped explained by the above, ie, in a more wild tactical system where important spaces are abandoned with more regularity (Wenger), or where undue pressure is brought upon the team in systematic fashion (Em*ry), it's natural that errors result more often in pain for us and goals for the opposition.

When Xhaka was playing in Germany he was being directly compared to Xabi Alonso (who was playing for Bayern), and the plaudits for Xhaka was very high indeed. In Spain or Italy Xhaka would have been seen as identical to Alonso or Pirlo etc, in that similar role of a regista as part of a double pivot. They would never have played Alonso or Pirlo as a single pivot they know that to be su!cide, yet Wenger elected to do it with Granit when there was a lack of options.
Well, you know about comparisons like these, how many times have players that we don't even remember been compared like this. Emre Can was also compared to Xabi Alonso by Liverpool fans, as I remembered in another thread, and so were a bunch of players who never prospered. Like I say, we're getting into alternate histories where everything would've been different so it's a bit like if my aunt were my uncle she'd have balls, but if Xhaka had made the nature of errors he made with Madrid or Barça or Atléti he would've been crucified worse than he was at Arsenal and never given a chance, these fans are the most unforgiving and exigent in the sport.

Would things have gone better for Xhaka here in Spain or Italy? Perhaps, I can certainly see the reasons you're getting at, to think so.

I think it's best to just leave it at, like any player, things would've gone for him under better managers, as it is going better for him now. Things didn't necessarily go better for Pjanic at Barça with Koeman, despite playing in the double pivot you'd expect, and having some similarities to Xhaka, as an example...but yeah, too many variables in the mix and too many differences to get into this kind of alternate history and make too much sense. I do agree with the bolded though, though to be fair to Wenger he did look for solutions there, too (altering the tactical system to a 3-4-3, which did help Xhaka and elicit better performances, even if people weren't ready to recognise them). And like I say, I do agree that here in Spain we would've been faster to catch on to the fact that Xhaka's performances had a lot, lot good about them in recent years (like I say, the fact that a lot of the fan base actually preferred us to keep a player as mediocre as Torreira to Xhaka when Arteta initially convinced Xhaka to stay is telling, I'd think that that wouldn't happen here at the very least, surely).
 

BergMan

Betrayed by Xhaka
@AbouCuéllar Try and compare stats. Say Xhaka in 2020/2021 and Partey this season (or last) on a per 90 basis. Who misplaced more passes, who was dispossessed more etc.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
@AbouCuéllar Try and compare stats. Say Xhaka in 2020/2021 and Partey this season (or last) on a per 90 basis. Who misplaced more passes, who was dispossessed more etc.
Yeah, I know mate, and I agree with you most of what you’re saying, though we’re talking about slightly different things there.

Anyways, let’s leave it on everything we agree on: Xhaka is at a ****ing brilliant level and has been at a quite impressive level for a while, he is the best leader on the pitch and in the dressing room that we have had since Vieira, and his contributions have not been properly rated over the years.
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
Xhaka is proof positive that no matter how disliked you are by the fanbase you're never totally written off till you leave the club.

Grit it out, be committed and put in the performances and there's always a way back into the fans good graces.

Massive credit to him. The guy has got guts.
 

Nunowoolmez

Established Member
Hes been reborn & probably playing the best football of his career. A total fluke or masterstroke by Arteta ?

Long may it continue. Story's like his are pretty rare in football.
 
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