Edu Gaspar

[Farzad Stoned]

I’m starting to suspect you don’t understand what the word **** means…

In any case, for any avoidance of doubt,
I will try and clarify for the last fkn time I swear.

The **** comment was made largely in response to the Jorginho transfer. Chelsea have a colossal problem with regards to FFP. Every penny counts for them. Us taking a player off their hands for 12m and lowering their wage bill for 6 months by 120k or whatever makes a huge difference. I abhor the idea of doing Chelsea any favours. I would much rather that deal happened with any other club frankly, as the situation is very unique to Chelsea.

Not sure why I bothered explaining it. You have a long and celebrated history of jumping to a conclusion without establishing facts and then sticking to it no matter what….

Ok we took advantage of Cfc with Jorginho and others will be taking advantage of them buying off their surplus players with value for nothing. No one else would sell us a starting Pl midfielder of same quality for 12 million. Again you read that situation 100 percent wrong. People on Redcafe are wondering why Chelsea would support our title bid, no one says Jorgi is phenomenal but all we wanted was a backup. This was a steal that solidifies our title hunt and does a tiny bit to help CFC but helps us more.

So even in this narrow circumstance you didn’t look at facts and you raced to nasty name calling of the club for being smart. We got a title to win sorry if only 100 million pound transfers excite you. We were buying a back up remember that

 

[db10_therza]

Jorginho wasn't signing a new deal, so who knows if they had sold him to some other club in January? So they could have got money anyway. Besides I still doubt that ~15 million in total would make or break their business.

They would have just not bought attacker Fofana this window but the next or something. They would not leave getting Enzo to hang on 15 million pounds if Arsenal might buy Jorginho.

I edited my post to clarify the ffp thing. Ie if they pass FFP by 5m then it’s literally our money that got us there. I would need to shower for at least 5 hours to wipe off the stench of that feeling if it comes to that…

 

[db10_therza]

So even in this narrow circumstance you didn’t facts and you raced to nasty name calling

Please, someone tell me I’m not the only one who see irony dripping all over this post?! The guy who insults anyone and everyone on AM is upset because I insulted an institution and not even an actual person? Wtf?

 

[Trilly]

It's AM, this is no place for adults. It's a place for childish banter and occasional football talk.

It wouldn’t be Arsenalmania if we went this route though.

Can't say I didn't try!

 

[Farzad Stoned]

Please, someone tell me I’m not the only one who see irony dripping all over this post?! The guy who insults anyone and everyone on AM is upset because I insulted an institution and not even an actual person? Wtf?

It is the club i love and you went off half cocked and kept acting like CFC took advantage of us no we took advantage of their stupidity. Can you tell me another starting Pl midfielder on a top 10 team we could buy in January for less. So because you are emotional we shouldn’t pick up a starter as a backup for 12 million? So literally you called the club ***** for being smart and shrewd

 

[Trilly]

I'm not going to go in circles again. The positions are clear.

I didn't say slandering, I said Edu is criticized if you can read. Which he is.

Yes yes I mixed up you and farzad.

 

[drippin]

You do this a lot. Focus on a small inconsequential part of someone's post and argue against it. Serves no purpose. All the top clubs could afford him. There. Happy?

I argue about what I have comments about. I won't argue about what I don't care about to comment. Understand?

What laughed about is that the deal was so expensive overall that not even all top clubs could do it easily like you suggested, because of FFP.

As I've said in previous posts getting Haaland wasn't just about paying up. There are many clubs who could have matched Haaland's demands. Even we would have made room for him.

Yes, but Haaland chose best team in England and the club that his father played for. They had clear upper hand to other teams, and paid up. Just like Arsenal had upper hand because of striker planning and Arteta for Jesus, but as an UEL club. And Arsenal paid up.

This is what I mean about just being business savvy. I want my DoF to at least consider that there might be competition for this guy in January. If we didn't think he was worth what they wanted then we should have walked away a lot earlier. Again, maybe if Edu had met them face to face he'd have walked away from that meeting understanding that they actually wanted 100M and weren't just bluffing.

Edu tried to get him to a deal that Arsenal thought he was worth. It's called transfer negotiations. Didn't work this time, but Arsenal didn't overpay. They might have bluffed if Chelsea didn't come and pay, we will never know. But they were not willing to match Chelsea's bid, this is not about Edu, but Arsenal and the board in my opinion. Edu doesn't make the final calls for big deals like this?

Again, why is my DoF unable to tell if an owner is bluffing or not? I'm glad you raised these points because these are just the personal interactions/intangibles I'm talking about. You say no harm done but that's just your opinion. We've definitely had some kind of impact on our relationship with Shaktar and Brighton due to these sagas. I think both clubs pretty much confirmed that.

Because Brighton have been a selling club. These are transfer negotiations. You can try to make a record offer for a player who the owner says is not for sale, but has made a "transfer request", because it's risky to keep him.

Shakhtar we won't do business again with, and no need to, I doubt they will have much more huge talents coming through. Brighton who knows what they think. It was that Naylor guy who said relationship is ruined?

In any case, like I have said, clubs now know that Arsenal is not overpaying even for #1 targets, so that's an advantage for the future.

 

[drippin]

I edited my post to clarify the ffp thing. Ie if they pass FFP by 5m then it’s literally our money that got us there. I would need to shower for at least 5 hours to wipe off the stench of that feeling if it comes to that…

I find this thought frankly ridiculous. Chelsea won't plan/depend their Enzo deal on deadline deal day on selling Jorginho. Makes no sense at all to me. Would risk the whole deal.

 

[Trilly]

I argue about what I have comments about. I won't argue about what I don't care about to comment. Understand?

 

[db10_therza]

I find this thought frankly ridiculous. Chelsea won't plan/depend their Enzo deal on deadline deal day on selling Jorginho. Makes no sense at all to me. Would risk the whole deal.

You think Chelsea are “planning”?!?

 

[drippin]

You think Chelsea are “planning”?!?

Do you understand my point? Arsenal buying Jorginho from them had very likely zero effect on their business. If Enzo deal was hanging on 15 million, they would not wait for Jorginho sale on deadline day, but they rather would not have bought Fofana or do some other small transfer like it, to guarantee they have the money for Enzo.

 

[db10_therza]

Do you understand my point? Arsenal buying Jorginho from them had very likely zero effect on their business. If Enzo deal was hanging on 15 million, they would not wait for Jorginho sale on deadline day, but they would not have bought Fofana or do some other small transfer like it, to guarantee they have the money.

Yeah I get your point. I’m just not convinced Chelsea have any idea what they’re doing. See the Ziyech debacle…

 

[El Duderino]

It's going around in circles. You're fearful that Edu can't do big deals, when he has done big enough deals already which I have explained, but you don't accept them.

You can keep fearing until the summer for all I care, I have explained my points about it. And we can come back to this in the summer. You can mock me if I'm wrong, and I will mock you if I'm right.

And it's been explained why there's caveats in those deals but you fail to accept them.

I don't want to mock anyone drippin, you're making this needlessly personal, because you're taking people disagreeing with you as a slight for some reason.

why is it always about winning with you?

It's telling that you're simply unable to see things through other viewpoints that are not your own.

Nothing that was said here was outlandish, the arguments were being made in good faith and without any sort of slandering (like fazaard claim), yet you treat it like so.

You've not once grasped the point we're trying to make, and instead youre he'll bent on arguing things we haven't said.

 

[Farzad Stoned]

We've definitely had some kind of impact on our relationship with Shaktar and Brighton due to these sagas. I think both clubs pretty much confirmed that.

I never want to do deal with either Brighton and Shaktar unless we are F ing them hard. We paid that gangster Bloom 140 million for 3 players, the Germans don’t ask you to pay for their fans emotional loss. Personally if i was Edu i would freeze them out. The universe of clubs that can do buys like Murdyk is tiny 10 clubs maybe. Losing us forever from that list is more damaging to shaktar and Brighton then it is to us. The only way we should ever buy from Bloom is when we have him over the barrrel, then we should F him so hard he won’t ever return our calls. What Brighton is doing isn’t hard if we wanted to we can do it and just cut out the overpriced middleman. Edu should hire their best personnel people for a fraction of Murdyk and go and buy all the prospects they bid on.

By the way this happens all the time in business. When you get a greedy middleman who screws both the parties he buys from and sells to they get bypassed. Middlemen are a dime a dozen and you can always just go direct to the same type of players they are recruiting

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Yes so it is a myth you need to spend a hundred million to get a top player. Haaland joined City for various reasons namely their success. Arsenal is a glamorous destination on the up with a lot of the same selling points. We can look for good players late in contracts who want a change. Great way not to pay 100 million for top talent.

I do think that if we at least get back into the Champions League, and win the Premier League, we will be more attractive. It is a bit to go to be on the level that City currently sits at. That being said we have some advantages being situated in London and having a reputation for exciting football.

At the end of the day, you have to be seen as a prospective deliverer of silverware and potentially a place for an attractive lifestyle.

 

[Trilly]

Yes, but Haaland chose best team in England and the club that his father played for. They had clear upper hand to other teams, and paid up. Just like Arsenal had upper hand because of striker planning and Arteta for Jesus, but as an UEL club. And Arsenal paid up.

City's tactic is usually to overpay, or in this case leverage that Haaland's dad played for them. That's fair. They did also make considerations around promising to not overplay him though, that's pretty niche. But cool let's leave Haaland and City out of it.

We're not going to have the upper hand in every transfer, Rice doesn't know Edu. His dad didn't play for Arsenal etc. How are we going to differentiate ourself from the competition? I don't know the answer there but if Edu can be a charming/charismatic business man (something Raul was apparently very good at) then that will help.

In my opinion he doesn't seem to be good at that. He made Shaktar feel disrespected and he's soured things with Brighton. That doesn't fill me with confidence.

But they were not willing to match Chelsea's bid, this is not about Edu, but Arsenal and the board in my opinion. Edu doesn't make the final calls for big deals like this?

Edu doesn't make the call but I expect Edu to have the interpersonal skills to come back and say something like "Hey Josh, I've met with the guys at Brighton/Shaktar and they're not budging on their valuation, let's move on"

He seems unable to be able to identify what's a bluff and what isn't which leads to us wasting time. I don't have any issue with the club sticking to their valuation.

 

[Trilly]

I never want to do deal with either Brighton and Shaktar unless we are F ing them hard. We paid that gangster Bloom 160 million for 3 players, the Germans don’t ask you to pay for their fans emotional loss. Personally if i was Edu i would freeze them out. The universe of clubs that can do buys like Murdyk is tiny 10 clubs maybe. Losing us forever from that list is more damaging to shaktar and Brighton then it is to us. The only way we should ever buy from Bloom is when we have him over the barrrel, then we should F him so hard he won’t ever return our calls. What Brighton is doing isn’t hard if we wanted to we can do it and just cut out the overpriced middleman. Edu should hire their best personnel people for a fraction of Murdyk and go and buy all the prospects they bid on.

I agree that Shaktar were taking the piss. Have no issue with us walking away but if Edu hadn't 'disrespected' them by not meeting face to face then maybe they would have been more reasonable. It really is just as much about personal relationships as it is about money.

As for Brighton. They're in with a chance of Europe, have lost so many players and staff in recent months and didn't need the money. We're not entitled to their players. We should have walked away or made an offer they couldn't refuse.

Jorginho might have cost 10M before the Caicedo saga but on deadline day he cost 12M. 'only' 2M but it's the little things.

 

[db10_therza]

I agree that Shaktar were taking the piss. Have no issue with us walking away but if Edu hadn't 'disrespected' them by not meeting face to face then maybe they would have been more reasonable. It really is just as much about personal relationships as it is about money.

This

Shakhtar were like those nobody’s who suddenly win the lottery and get rich and all they want is some acknowledgement from some “old money” to validate their imposter complex. A face to face would have gone a looong way. It may not have sealed the deal, but it would have told me that we were making the right kind of moves.

 

[Farzad Stoned]

I agree that Shaktar were taking the piss. Have no issue with us walking away but if Edu hadn't 'disrespected' them by not meeting face to face then maybe they would have been more reasonable. It really is just as much about personal relationships as it is about money.

As for Brighton. They're in with a chance of Europe, have lost so many players and staff in recent months and didn't need the money. We're not entitled to their players. We should have walked away or made an offer they couldn't refuse.

Jorginho might have cost 10M before the Caicedo saga but on deadline day he cost 12M. 'only' 2M but it's the little things.

Nope Brighton lost they crapped on their relations with the supplier. Ala the Spanish agents who bring them these players anyway. Not all the big clubs want or need Brighton’s players. In fact watch as after dealing a few times with Bloom if they don’t just bypass him and do the same thing themselves or just buy German and Dutch. Brighton got 140 million or so for 3 players from us, it is Brighton who has to worry about Arsenal bowing out of all future bidding wars. Not us they are a little club trying to act hard

 

[drippin]

And it's been explained why there's caveats in those deals but you fail to accept them.

I don't want to mock anyone drippin, you're making this needlessly personal, because you're taking people disagreeing with you as a slight for some reason.

why is it always about winning with you?

It's telling that you're simply unable to see things through other viewpoints that are not your own.

Nothing that was said here was outlandish, the arguments were being made in good faith and without any sort of slandering (like fazaard claim), yet you treat it like so.

You've not once grasped the point we're trying to make, and instead youre he'll bent on arguing things we haven't said.

I get your point. Edu has not made "big deals" in your guys opinions (which I disagree with somewhat), so you fear that he isn't able to do them in the summer in totally different circumstances than before. Not sure why you claim I have not understood it, I just said it.

I have tried to explain a thousand times why you can't yet make conclusions about Edu, while some even want to fire him now. And I have said I won't argue about it anymore, because it's of no use as your fears are what they are, and I can't help alleviate them more than I have tried to already.

Not sure why you go into personal insults that I have some problems, when the evidence is there in this thread.