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Gabriel Martinelli: Dogged and Determined

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
He is a technical player doesn’t need a pass his dribbling stats prove it. He is no Anthony he can and does take on and beat players. He is not ss good as Saka at technique ability, but he presses better than Saka and i think has one more or equal on goals. So i just don’t understand the end product quip for a guy who already is into double digits in league goals.
He said it, not me, please read the posts properly. 🙏🏾
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
I think pressing and workrate comes from the manager.Pep for example makes anyone who comes to City work, nobody had Grealish down as a hardworking player who won the ball back but he was third in the league for it at some point this season.

Mikel is the same.

I'm not saying Martinelli couldn't be upgraded on but it would cost a lot of money to find a LW with a higher technical ceiling than Martinelli AND with the workrate and end product that Martinelli produces.

So that’s why I think sentences like this are a reach. The work rate is a given under Mikel, so all you’re looking for is the end product and technical ceiling, suddenly the player becomes ‘easier’ to upgrade on.

It’s nice that he works hard but don’t let that get in the way of analysing a players game.
 

Bagels

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
I think pressing and workrate comes from the manager.Pep for example makes anyone who comes to City work, nobody had Grealish down as a hardworking player who won the ball back but he was third in the league for it at some point this season.

Mikel is the same.



So that’s why I think sentences like this are a reach. The work rate is a given under Mikel, so all you’re looking for is the end product and technical ceiling, suddenly the player becomes ‘easier’ to upgrade on.

It’s nice that he works hard but don’t let that get in the way of analysing a players game.
The team playing to press/have a high work rate comes from the manager. The actual application of that plan comes from the players.

Player’s who don’t execute the manager’s game plan, don’t play. It isn’t that every player in the world has the exact work rate and ability to execute a game plan required for every single coach in the world. It’s that only the players who have the ability that fits the coach’s plan, play.

By definition workrate is the measure of a player’s movement. This is the first time I’ve read that a player’s movement is NOT a trait of the player, but just a given under particular managers.

In my mind, a player’s movement/tendency to navigate space is generally the most unique aspect of a player, as it deals with their own mind and understanding of the game, etc, which means it is absolutely necessary in analyzing a player’s game.

E.g, why in the same system and position does Jesus move differently than Trossard? Viera from Ødegaard? Jorginho from Partey? And so on and on
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
The team playing to press/have a high work rate comes from the manager. The actual application of that plan comes from the players.

Player’s who don’t execute the manager’s game plan, don’t play. It isn’t that every player in the world has the exact work rate and ability to execute a game plan required for every single coach in the world. It’s that only the players who have the ability that fits the coach’s plan, play.

By definition workrate is the measure of a player’s movement. This is the first time I’ve read that a player’s movement is NOT a trait of the player, but just a given under particular managers.

In my mind, a player’s movement/tendency to navigate space is generally the most unique aspect of a player, as it deals with their own mind and understanding of the game, etc, which means it is absolutely necessary in analyzing a player’s game.

E.g, why in the same system and position does Jesus move differently than Trossard? Viera from Ødegaard? Jorginho from Partey? And so on and on
The bolded paragraph was cheeky, stop with the strawmen.

Look I rate him, you rate him. We just rate him differently, what’s the big deal?
 

Bagels

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
The bolded paragraph was cheeky, stop with the strawmen.

Look I rate him, you rate him. We just rate him differently, what’s the big deal?
I think pressing and workrate comes from the manager.Pep for example makes anyone who comes to City work, nobody had Grealish down as a hardworking player who won the ball back but he was third in the league for it at some point this season.

Mikel is the same.



So that’s why I think sentences like this are a reach. The work rate is a given under Mikel, so all you’re looking for is the end product and technical ceiling, suddenly the player becomes ‘easier’ to upgrade on.

It’s nice that he works hard but don’t let that get in the way of analysing a players game.
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but bolded do you not say pressing/workrate comes from the manager, and that workrate is a given under Mikel? I am not sure where the strawman is in my response…

You said explicitly pressing/work rate come the manager (and what’s more, that it shouldn’t “get in the way” of analyzing a player’s game), I disagree. I believe it comes from the player, and if the player cannot execute the manager’s gameplan, they simply don’t play. The definition I provide of work-rate is just a fact…

Maybe I misunderstand your point? Or you misunderstand what a strawman is.

Anyways there is no big deal? You could hate him or love him for all I care. We are on a football forum so I thought we were discussing footballing ideas and the different views encompassed there… didn’t mean to make you defensive. I will digress from the conversation, apologies.
 

14Henry

Looking for receipts 👀
Brilliant response from Gabi today. Character and ability in abundance.

Bust his gut too after playing the whole of the other night.
 

Tnegs

Active Member
Wenger used to talk about mental strength being a key attribute of a top player and this guy has that in spades. He never lets his misses or poor performances get to him he could put in an awful 45 mins and then calmly score a difficult goal. Great player and he’s only going to get better.
 

Farzad Stoned

Self-appointed Deprogrammer for the Cult of Mik 🟥

Country: USA

Player:Havertz
Martinelli is not there yet but has potential to be world class. He is not yet 21 and his goal scoring and his pressing sre invaluable to the team. Very few players in world football would be better than him at his position, and all those guys come with a massive price tag. The real nutters on here were the people saying he was our worst starter
 

Blood on the Tracks

AG's best friend, role model and mentor.
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Rice
I think pressing and workrate comes from the manager.Pep for example makes anyone who comes to City work, nobody had Grealish down as a hardworking player who won the ball back but he was third in the league for it at some point this season.

Mikel is the same.



So that’s why I think sentences like this are a reach. The work rate is a given under Mikel, so all you’re looking for is the end product and technical ceiling, suddenly the player becomes ‘easier’ to upgrade on.

It’s nice that he works hard but don’t let that get in the way of analysing a players game.

Most goals in a season by a player 21 or under since Anelka.

I don't think he's easy to upgrade on at a pure output level tbh. When you factor in his age, scope for improvement and workrate it makes it even harder I think.
 

Bagels

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
Road to 20 league goals? Bit impossible with 10 games to go
In his position, at any age, hitting 15+ league goals is phenomenal.

He’s already nearing that ball park and at 21. Really great for us. Don’t think its that unlikely that in a few seasons he can be a 20+ goals player for us in the league.

He has his flaws, but his output can’t be denied.
 

Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy 🏆
Trusted ⭐
In his position, at any age, hitting 15+ league goals is phenomenal.

He’s already nearing that ball park and at 21. Really great for us. Don’t think its that unlikely that in a few seasons he can be a 20+ goals player for us in the league.

He has his flaws, but his output can’t be denied.
Also no penalty goals he been absolutely amazing and there still room for improvement
 

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