The Wish List

[CurryFlavoured]

I can't believe Cesc in our midfield is even up for discussion, the only position he could play is Özil's and we know that's not happening. No way would Fabregas and Ramsey work in the middle, it's in the same category as Ramsey and Wilshere/Ox in midfield together. Aaron needs a proper deep midfield partner beside him.

 

[DanAust]

Özil in a pinch could play out on the left

 

[CurryFlavoured]

We move our most expensive signing ever out of position to accommodate for another player? Not happening, he was signed to play AM, he's one of the best in the world in that position so that's where he'll play.

An attacking midfielder is literally the last thing we need, I was a massive Cesc fan but that ship has sailed. He's gone, not needed, and **** unbalancing the team even further just so we can squeeze him in. No more playmakers.

 

[ArsenesNO1Fan]

Pace, skill and power

Very humbling, sadly realistic

Based on the last 10 years wouldn't that be a pretty decent window? Improve our CF and DM considerably while maintaining other areas.

 

[ArsenesNO1Fan]

We move our most expensive signing ever out of position to accommodate for another player? Not happening, he was signed to play AM, he's one of the best in the world in that position so that's where he'll play.

An attacking midfielder is literally the last thing we need, I was a massive Cesc fan but that ship has sailed. He's gone, not needed, and **** unbalancing the team even further just so we can squeeze him in. No more playmakers.

We are playmakered to death although Cesc is another level. Özil drifts right anyway so if he played right and came inside alongside Cesc it could work with a pacey left winger and pacey CF.

I don't think Cesc's leaving anyway but Wenger would probably bring him back if he could do a deal.

 

[truth_hurts]

Pace, skill and power

Very humbling, sadly realistic

Based on the last 10 years wouldn't that be a pretty decent window? Improve our CF and DM considerably while maintaining other areas.

It would secure 4th but wouldn't make us title contenders. United will be back next season and the current top 3 will be stronger we can't afford baby steps forward with the likes of Shaquiri and Lukaku.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

We are playmakered to death although Cesc is another level. Özil drifts right anyway so if he played right and came inside alongside Cesc it could work with a pacey left winger and pacey CF.

I don't think Cesc's leaving anyway but Wenger would probably bring him back if he could do a deal.

Another level to what? We've got one of the best attacking midfielders in the world so there is no level above him.

Like you say, we're playmakered to death. We need defensive midfielders, physical players and direct wingers added to our list of midfielders. No more tippy tappy creative players.

 

[MutableEarth]

There's merit in the theory of Fabregas as DLP. Like Arteta, its a position he's trained his entire youth for. The problem you have is that he's not the greatest defensive player in the world, and Ramsey becomes the de facto DM/Ball winner as a compensation. He can do it, but he won't be sitting. Fabregas probably won't sit for long either.

Its not a bad shout, but if we want a Fabregas-type at DLP/deeper midfield, I wouldn't get Fabregas to do it. Its clearly the desired type of player for Arsène - we put Arteta there and Zelalem and Olsson are being groomed towards a deeper role in midfield. Can we find that player?

 

[outlaw_member]

I think some people watch football with their eyes closed. Fabregas could never perform the role that Arteta has over the past few years. For the simple fact that Mikel can tackle, whilst Cesc cannot. Since arriving from Everton, Arteta has averaged about 4-5 tackles per game. That is a significant number for a player performing as part of a pivot. When you add Ramsey's tackling numbers into the mix, it's no wonder that together they formed the best central midfield partnership we've had for a very long time.

That's why Arteta was an immediate improvement over Wilshere, despite the latters impressive debut season, because he can ****ing tackle. Cesc cannot tackle, and that's why he was such a liability in a deep position. It took a one-off purple patch from Flamini to cover Cesc's defensive flaws. Otherwise, it was always an issue for anyone who is objective in their views. Cesc can play as a DLP, but like Pirlo, he will need at least two defensive workers either side of him.

 

[outlaw_member]

Sadly, I think Wenger's vision is all ****ed up. We lucked out on Arteta having defensive qualities, and the same can be said about Ramsey. I don't think Wenger really wants to have a defensive minded player in midfield. He can say what he wants, but he'd rather have all creators in midfield.

 

[truth_hurts]

is Ramsey/Cesc and Flamini/Cesc hugely different in style? I'm not even saying that I want a Cesc type - just Cesc because he's brilliant. Artetas sideways passing and lack of mobility surely has to be more of a detriment then Cescs lack of defensive nous. Cesc is more than capable of playing an Alonso or Xavi role. song although physical was also not great defensively yet still used his attributes well to get the best out of Wilshere and Cesc. Pipe dream anyway as Cesc will fulfil Xavis role at Barca along with Busquets and Iniesta - how is this different to Cesc, Ramsey and Özil and I am not buying that. Barca couldn't play in the premier league.

Our attack needs improving but with Cesc and runners we'd be a long way there. that said buying a defensive midfielder can give Özil more freedom but so could actually being able to keep the ball.

 

[outlaw_member]

Close your eyes, and think of which area Flamini patrols and looks to occupy, and do the same again and think about what area Ramsey likes to move into. You should realise that they target completely opposing areas of the pitch.

 

[CurryFlavoured]

We don't need a DLP who will offer more than Arteta going forward, the reliance on our midfield to score goals is already more than enough with what Ramsey does. If we paired Cesc with Ramsey in midfield you'd have the same lack of pace and strength that Arteta has but without the positioning and ability to tackle. It would be about as much use as pairing Özil with Ramsey in the double pivot.

It's laughable that you hear complaints about Arteta's lack of physical ability and the need to replace him, then Cesc's name pops up in the wishlist thread.

 

[Penn_]

Fabregas can't tackle? In the 07/08 season he made around 70 successful tackles and had a success rate of 75%. All while being the main creative point of the team. He was actually better statistically than Flamini.

I think people are remembering the later Cesc who was basically a second striker and not the DLP. Cesc himself said he prefers playing deeper. If Arteta has the defensive qualities we need then so does Fabregas.

 

[outlaw_member]

You are right in reference to that particular season. Still, he was highly questionable more often than not. His contribution often comprised of pressing the opponent with tenacity, and then being bypassed with considerable ease.

 

[MutableEarth]

Like I said earlier, I can see merit in the theory, but it's an overly ambitious one that doesn't really address our physical and defensive problems in the middle of the park.

We really need more of a physical and defensive presence back there. I'd like a DLP type, but only one with some kind of athleticism or power and defensive attributes such as positioning and tactical discipline.

 

[Caz19]

There's merit in the theory of Fabregas as DLP. Like Arteta, its a position he's trained his entire youth for. The problem you have is that he's not the greatest defensive player in the world, and Ramsey becomes the de facto DM/Ball winner as a compensation. He can do it, but he won't be sitting. Fabregas probably won't sit for long either.

Its not a bad shout, but if we want a Fabregas-type at DLP/deeper midfield, I wouldn't get Fabregas to do it. Its clearly the desired type of player for Arsène - we put Arteta there and Zelalem and Olsson are being groomed towards a deeper role in midfield. Can we find that player?

Some people will disagree but for me that player is Pogba. It's true, he's a complete midfielder who loves to attack when he gets the chance - and we've already got a player like that in Ramsey, but he's got amazing strength and athleticism and he is able to do the dirty side of the job quite well.

Everybody wants us to get a destroyer who will just sit back and recycle possesion. Do we really need somebody like that? If you look at the big teams, City have Toure and Fernandinho as their midfield pivot and guys like these who have immense work rate and stamina are in my opinion the way forward since they devastate teams on the attack, yet somehow even when they lose the ball they rarely ever leave the defense exposed. Chelsea are a bit of a different story, but they also often love to play with Ramires+Luiz neither of which are true defensive midfielders/destroyers. Liverpool have converted Gerrard to a DM and also have Lucas who is the definition of a defensive midfielder, yet still they concede plenty of goals and their defence is quite shaky. Same story with Tottenham and Sandro.

In short, we don't need a destroyer like Flamini, I think 2 complete all action midfielders is the way forward for us to bully teams in the middle of the pitch like we used to back in the day.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

Cesc in a DLP role would be absolutely stupid, one you won't get the best out of Cesc, two he doesn't appear to have the defensive tactical knowledge or tackling attributes to really play that role and I don't think he'd be disciplined enough.

I like the Pogba suggestion (probably never happening despite him being a fan of Arsenal), although you'd limit a lot of his game having him as the deepest midfielder, not that it couldn't work. Khedira (possibly another option) plays deepest for Germany and sometimes Madrid despite being more of a box-to-box player.

 

[mavelous]

It'd be in the vermaelen dm territory, like Özil faux neuf or 4-3-3 with two high positioned forwards with conservative full backs.in other words, radical changes and shuffling in several positions, which would prescribe an unprecedented transfer window. All very unlikely. Without fm-ing it any more than I have to, Özil-Ramsey-cesc midfield can work with very strong caveats, as in completely different pressing system, by which you are talking about personnel changes in back line and the front 3. Özil is actually underrated in physical attributes, has a nice burst of pace and deceptively strong. His work rate/engine might present a bit of trouble, and cesc has mobility problems.



But let's face it, with a midfield like that, and a wish list front 3, it's a completely different ball game. Why do barca press like that? Because it's worth it. Once they get it back, there's little chance they lose it. So they only need to press like that very little throughout the game, and in bursts. Why do they recycle the ball after they win it? You assess the options, unless you win it in final third and there's a high probability opening, you let the team breathe a little.

But all this of course depends on having several quality players to make the difference, that's the difference between pretenders like Swansea/pool last season/bayern. In layman terms, penetration to make the possession count.

So it depends on how wish listy you wanna get with that frontline. We already have one and a half pieces tbf

 

[MutableEarth]

There's merit in the theory of Fabregas as DLP. Like Arteta, its a position he's trained his entire youth for. The problem you have is that he's not the greatest defensive player in the world, and Ramsey becomes the de facto DM/Ball winner as a compensation. He can do it, but he won't be sitting. Fabregas probably won't sit for long either.

Its not a bad shout, but if we want a Fabregas-type at DLP/deeper midfield, I wouldn't get Fabregas to do it. Its clearly the desired type of player for Arsène - we put Arteta there and Zelalem and Olsson are being groomed towards a deeper role in midfield. Can we find that player?

Some people will disagree but for me that player is Pogba. It's true, he's a complete midfielder who loves to attack when he gets the chance - and we've already got a player like that in Ramsey, but he's got amazing strength and athleticism and he is able to do the dirty side of the job quite well.

Everybody wants us to get a destroyer who will just sit back and recycle possesion. Do we really need somebody like that? If you look at the big teams, City have Toure and Fernandinho as their midfield pivot and guys like these who have immense work rate and stamina are in my opinion the way forward since they devastate teams on the attack, yet somehow even when they lose the ball they rarely ever leave the defense exposed.

In short, we don't need a destroyer like Flamini, I think 2 complete all action midfielders is the way forward for us to bully teams in the middle of the pitch like we used to back in the day.

I disagree with Pogba. I think he's a phenomenal talent, super talent. But I think we DO need someone who is more likely to sit. Fernandinho and Toure work in a tandem whereby one sits more than the other. That man is Fernandinho, while Toure does the business just further forward.

I don't necessarily think we need a destroyer, but we need someone who prioritizes defending more. Pogba isn't that player. When he captained the U20 team, that job fell to the equally physically gifted Kondogbia. Not as talented as Pogba, but certainly another promising midfielder - who also sits a lot more than Pogba.

A double pivot like Ramsey-Pogba would not work under Wenger IMO. Even our previous double-pivot of Vieira-Gilberto (similar to Toure-Fernandinho funnily enough!) had one sitting more than the other even though they were both capable going forward. We need one that sits more than the other. Ramsey presses higher up the field to win the ball. We need someone with the tactical positioning to compensate. Kondogbia is more that player than Pogba. Pogba is clearly the more talented of the two, but he's more Vieira than Gilberto.

Ramsey is the Vieira in our current team. Now we need a Gilberto. An underrated facet of Gilberto's play was his passing - he launched quite a few attacks because he often passed forward rather than just sideways. So a DLP-ish midfielder should be the ultimate aim. Cesc as that player is ambitious but ultimately off. Pogba has the physical attributes and technical attributes like Ramsey, but none of the tactical positioning for the role. It would basically be having 2 Ramseys - which sounds good on paper, but doesn't work in a tandem.