Biggus
Established Member
Yep, Groundhog day. 
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2004/05 - The year when the boys became men???
- Thread starter CloudWalker
- Start date
- Replies 34
- Views 2,460
hackajack
Established Member
Teams tend to get a crop of kids in clumps (see us in the 80s, ManU in the 90s, WHAM in the 00s) in between there's a lot of hype and hot air. Plus of course the bar is higher these days
Biggus
Established Member
General said:
Of all the players Cloudwalker mentioned I think only Cesc, RvP are still here, Almunia also, but he was no kid.
air
Well-Known Member
So the fact that not all of our youngsters made it a few years back means the current bunch have no talent? So we need to dump the youngster experiment and splash cash on mediocre players around the Premiership? The fact that Ryan Garry and Arturo Lupoli didn't make it to the first team means Walcott, Nasri, Song, Bendtner, Denilson, Ramsey are all rubbish?
Instead of doing this, we should be bumping the bulls**t threads saying we need to sign Andy Johnson and James Beattie. And that fella Gomes looks pretty good in goal for PSV too.
Instead of doing this, we should be bumping the bulls**t threads saying we need to sign Andy Johnson and James Beattie. And that fella Gomes looks pretty good in goal for PSV too.
Original_AAA
Well-Known Member
We do seem to be back to where we were nearly 4 seasons ago yes.
Season 2004/2005: 2nd place 83 points.
Season 2007/2008: 3rd place 83 points.
In other words, we are now back in a position were we can challenge for the title..
Season 2004/2005: 2nd place 83 points.
Season 2007/2008: 3rd place 83 points.
In other words, we are now back in a position were we can challenge for the title..
alboots101
Established Member
yep..we need andy johnson he`d be perfect....and davies...then all we need is claude makelele..sack Wenger get alladyce and it would all be perfect...hump the ball up and stop everyone playing..what style what panache.
Re:
ops:
I guess my youthful optimism back then was baseless as we did not win anything since then bar the FA Cup during that same season. It is a lot harder to stay optimistic these days as it may have seemed hard with certain players leaving back then, but compared to now we had it good back then. Almost all the players from the invincibles have gone except for Clichy (didn't really play back then)and Toure (anyone know where the real Kolo has been the last year?) with all our best players leaving on the cheap and being replaced on the cheap as well. Granted we had our hands tied for a while but it is hard to back the loss of Flamini, Gilberto and Hleb for so cheap without getting any decent replacements even though money wasn't an issue. Allegedly. That being said on our day we are as good as anyone. I just do not think we will have enough "on our day" matches to make a serious bid for the title.
I guess the point of this bump is to see how opinions and views have chenged over the course of this barren run we are having. In my eyes this season, in terms of winning the Premier title is a write off for me as I do not think we have enough to compete consistently over a 38 game season although I would be over the moon to be proved wrong. I do feel however we can challenge for the CL and the domestic cups and a trophy or two irregardless would be welcome so long as this is coupled with a decent challenge for the title (I'd say at least until March) and cement a spot in next season's CL, giving us a winning platform with which to build on for a serious title tilt next season. Remember Man United won their first trophy in about 3 years when they won the Carling cup and that gave them the belief to push on to win the next two premier league titles and a CL trophy to boot.
Woah. Completely forgot about this. Lol. Had to embarrass me there didn't you Biggus?Loyan said:I don't think this is the case (losing cups) as we won't be playing them all at the same time. The other experienced players will help the youths from feeling the pressure of the big games. Also you forgot to add Touré to your list of experienced players.kazu said:it's a great challenge to the 'kids', really exciting for them! the risk is that we MAY miss out on some of the trophies...
i still believe that our squad is big enough, just nice to keep everyone happy to fight for their place... we have experience in henry, bergkamp, ljungberg, pires, sol, lehmann, ashley, lauren, gilberto, edu... that's 10 of them already in a 11-a-side game, and wonderful talents in reyes, van persie, pennant, cesc, hoyte to prove themselves... i reckon we can play better football than last year!
things are looking good and am i excited! ;D
ops: I guess my youthful optimism back then was baseless as we did not win anything since then bar the FA Cup during that same season. It is a lot harder to stay optimistic these days as it may have seemed hard with certain players leaving back then, but compared to now we had it good back then. Almost all the players from the invincibles have gone except for Clichy (didn't really play back then)and Toure (anyone know where the real Kolo has been the last year?) with all our best players leaving on the cheap and being replaced on the cheap as well. Granted we had our hands tied for a while but it is hard to back the loss of Flamini, Gilberto and Hleb for so cheap without getting any decent replacements even though money wasn't an issue. Allegedly. That being said on our day we are as good as anyone. I just do not think we will have enough "on our day" matches to make a serious bid for the title.
I guess the point of this bump is to see how opinions and views have chenged over the course of this barren run we are having. In my eyes this season, in terms of winning the Premier title is a write off for me as I do not think we have enough to compete consistently over a 38 game season although I would be over the moon to be proved wrong. I do feel however we can challenge for the CL and the domestic cups and a trophy or two irregardless would be welcome so long as this is coupled with a decent challenge for the title (I'd say at least until March) and cement a spot in next season's CL, giving us a winning platform with which to build on for a serious title tilt next season. Remember Man United won their first trophy in about 3 years when they won the Carling cup and that gave them the belief to push on to win the next two premier league titles and a CL trophy to boot.
Biggus
Established Member
Re: Re:
I'm sorry Loyan my intention is not to embarrass anyone who posted 4 years ago. Opinions were held then without the benefit of hindsight, and were perfectly reasonable and rational under the circumstances as we were champions and had a very good side.
No actually it's the opposite. For some here opinions haven't changed, I want to illustrate to those who are still are under the illusion that we are on the cusp of something great, and who believe the Wenger line that patience in his way will be rewarded, that it is a tired old story. Despite as you say we had a much better team then only the creme de la creme made it through, and so it will be with this team. If Wenger continues this policy we will still be here in 2011 moaning about no trophies- of course many of the present lot will have moved on.
Loyan said:Woah. Completely forgot about this. Lol. Had to embarrass me there didn't you Biggus?
I'm sorry Loyan my intention is not to embarrass anyone who posted 4 years ago. Opinions were held then without the benefit of hindsight, and were perfectly reasonable and rational under the circumstances as we were champions and had a very good side.
Loyan said:
No actually it's the opposite. For some here opinions haven't changed, I want to illustrate to those who are still are under the illusion that we are on the cusp of something great, and who believe the Wenger line that patience in his way will be rewarded, that it is a tired old story. Despite as you say we had a much better team then only the creme de la creme made it through, and so it will be with this team. If Wenger continues this policy we will still be here in 2011 moaning about no trophies- of course many of the present lot will have moved on.
law
Well-Known Member
"Cesc, RVP, Pennant, Hoyte, Flamini, Senderos and Alumina"
Cesc - best playmaker in the premiership
RVP - off form at the moment but we know he is a top quality striker
Pennant - playing in the top four
Hoyte - still in the premiership
Flamini - playing for AC Milan
Senderos - playing for AC milan
Almunia - arguably the best Keeper in the Premiership on current form
Not exactly all failed players are they. Clichy should have been there and then you could add the best LB in the world to that list. Theo is another youth player who's made the grade; Ade is now one of the worlds top strikers. The increasing emphasis on youth has meant that we now have an even more talented bunch of youngsters than we did then. Song, Denilson, Vela and Bendtner are all far ahead of where anyone on that list was when it was written (bar maybe Cesc). In fact they're better than some of those players are now (Pennant and Hoyte). The players behind them like Wilshere, Ramsey etc. look at least as promising as the 04/05 roster of youngsters.
Only winning the FA cup in the intervening years is scant proof that optimism in the youth project is unfounded. When this post was written Dennis, Ljunberg, Pires, Campbell, Lauren were all starting to decline or were in decline already. Now you could put only Gallas on that list. The majority of our first should still be improving. In this way you have a first team that is far off peaking combined with a mixture of young players who have the ability to make the step up now and players who look likely to step up in a couple of years. As opposed to a first team that had peaked with some needing replacing and nothing inbetween the vastly inexperienced youngsters and the vastly exeprienced first team. We're now in a position where we have a bigger wealth of young talents, a more even spread as to where they are in their development and a better model for intergrating them into the first team.
Cesc - best playmaker in the premiership
RVP - off form at the moment but we know he is a top quality striker
Pennant - playing in the top four
Hoyte - still in the premiership
Flamini - playing for AC Milan
Senderos - playing for AC milan
Almunia - arguably the best Keeper in the Premiership on current form
Not exactly all failed players are they. Clichy should have been there and then you could add the best LB in the world to that list. Theo is another youth player who's made the grade; Ade is now one of the worlds top strikers. The increasing emphasis on youth has meant that we now have an even more talented bunch of youngsters than we did then. Song, Denilson, Vela and Bendtner are all far ahead of where anyone on that list was when it was written (bar maybe Cesc). In fact they're better than some of those players are now (Pennant and Hoyte). The players behind them like Wilshere, Ramsey etc. look at least as promising as the 04/05 roster of youngsters.
Only winning the FA cup in the intervening years is scant proof that optimism in the youth project is unfounded. When this post was written Dennis, Ljunberg, Pires, Campbell, Lauren were all starting to decline or were in decline already. Now you could put only Gallas on that list. The majority of our first should still be improving. In this way you have a first team that is far off peaking combined with a mixture of young players who have the ability to make the step up now and players who look likely to step up in a couple of years. As opposed to a first team that had peaked with some needing replacing and nothing inbetween the vastly inexperienced youngsters and the vastly exeprienced first team. We're now in a position where we have a bigger wealth of young talents, a more even spread as to where they are in their development and a better model for intergrating them into the first team.
air
Well-Known Member
Re: Re:
What's the alternative way then? With Chelsea and Man City around we are weaker in spending power. You want us to dump our biggest asset in our youngsters and replace them with so-called established players that we can afford and compete for UEFA Cup places?
Biggus said:
What's the alternative way then? With Chelsea and Man City around we are weaker in spending power. You want us to dump our biggest asset in our youngsters and replace them with so-called established players that we can afford and compete for UEFA Cup places?
hackajack
Established Member
It's not either/or though is it? I applaud Wengers's development of a young challenging team for £2 - BUT he had the opportunity and the money to add to that squad during the summer, to help us go the extra 4 points.
Biggus
Established Member
law said:
Not exactly all winning things for us either, thats my point.
law said:
This sounded fresh and new 4 years ago Law, but it's starting to go off now I think.
Biggus
Established Member
Re: Re:
Oh come on Air, we don't have compete for the 30M pounds players- nobody is demanding that, you know as well as I do that Wenger is very good at tracking down players who have slipped under the radar- your Sagnas your Eduardos etc, These are my "so-called established players".
We came f**king close last year, If Wenger had spent say a combined total of 30M on Keeping Flamini, bringing in a left winger (like he did fair enough), and a big strong established central defender, we'd be looking like real challengers again.
air said:
Oh come on Air, we don't have compete for the 30M pounds players- nobody is demanding that, you know as well as I do that Wenger is very good at tracking down players who have slipped under the radar- your Sagnas your Eduardos etc, These are my "so-called established players".
We came f**king close last year, If Wenger had spent say a combined total of 30M on Keeping Flamini, bringing in a left winger (like he did fair enough), and a big strong established central defender, we'd be looking like real challengers again.
air
Well-Known Member
Re: Re:
Sagna and Eduardo were both multi-million pound signings. And we also know Wenger is even better at developing young talent into stars. Except maybe their attitude. No, I hate to say it after last night but I do still think they will overcome the obstacle and come back stronger.
A point that not many people consider is that maybe there was no-one good enough available. Then you scream out names that you rate and Wenger doesn't. We're one of maybe the top ten clubs in the world and not everyone will be good for us. If we can't improve the side with a signing then we'll go with the players we have.
In fact we did sign a defender in Silvestre. So Wenger rates him, but then all the forum's football managers scream out they're embarrassed and we need [list of players here] who end up declining in a year or two or signing for Sp**s and failing.
Biggus said:
Sagna and Eduardo were both multi-million pound signings. And we also know Wenger is even better at developing young talent into stars. Except maybe their attitude. No, I hate to say it after last night but I do still think they will overcome the obstacle and come back stronger.
A point that not many people consider is that maybe there was no-one good enough available. Then you scream out names that you rate and Wenger doesn't. We're one of maybe the top ten clubs in the world and not everyone will be good for us. If we can't improve the side with a signing then we'll go with the players we have.
In fact we did sign a defender in Silvestre. So Wenger rates him, but then all the forum's football managers scream out they're embarrassed and we need [list of players here] who end up declining in a year or two or signing for Sp**s and failing.
Biggus
Established Member
Well Air, I'm not a regular visitor to "the wish" list myself. I think- and this has be proved time and again that as far as finding raw and new talent- Wenger knows.
So I don't really blame the players they must play in Wenger's system. My main problem is Wenger's philosophy, not just because he likes attacking football, but because he's taken it to such an extreme, to the point that that the defensive side of the game is almost totally neglected. That's why we can't win anything, he should go back to the basics- especially when we rely on young players so much.
So I don't really blame the players they must play in Wenger's system. My main problem is Wenger's philosophy, not just because he likes attacking football, but because he's taken it to such an extreme, to the point that that the defensive side of the game is almost totally neglected. That's why we can't win anything, he should go back to the basics- especially when we rely on young players so much.
