Fredrik Ljungberg (Out)

[patrick42uk]

the last two posts seem to ignore the fact that freddie was making his usual runs against charlton and could have been through on more than 3 occasions. it only takes one to get on the scoresheet.

he's more than work rate and defending well. he's main role within this squad is penetration from midfield. its the reason he still gets games. still, i'd rather him as a ball winner than flamini who is the epitome of waste of space.

 

[Don Pacifico]

the last two posts seem to ignore the fact that freddie was making his usual runs against charlton and could have been through on more than 3 occasions. it only takes one to get on the scoresheet.

True, but he isn't anywhere near as clinical as he used to be, I'm sure we all remember that purple patch he had towards the end of our last double winning season when it seemed like he won us every match with his goals. But those times have gone. I still think Freddie looks bright when he's on the field, but he's still ineffective when it comes to finishing moves, even for a sub.

 

[clockwork orange]

Don't say Freddy is finshed. He's just 30.

Already felt last season that Freddy was the player who missed Bergkamp most. Our game has become a little bit less direct over the last years (what happened to our 10 secs-goal-to-goal-counterattacks? we start playing 4-5-1 and theyr'e gone, weird because they're key for 4-5-1), which is not good for Freddy either.

I'm glad Freddy is still part of our team, and wouldn't be surprised at all, if a few sub-appereances (especially when we're a in the lead, so his strengths in counterattacks can be utilised) could trigger a period of good shape (and key goals).

 

[Sammer]

Don't say Freddy is finshed. He's just 30.

Already felt last season that Freddy was the player who missed Bergkamp most. Our game has become a little bit less direct over the last years (what happened to our 10 secs-goal-to-goal-counterattacks? we start playing 4-5-1 and theyr'e gone, weird because they're key for 4-5-1), which is not good for Freddy either.

I'm glad Freddy is still part of our team, and wouldn't be surprised at all, if a few sub-appereances (especially when we're a in the lead, so his strengths in counterattacks can be utilised) could trigger a period of good shape (and key goals).

I´m sorry, I just don´t see it...

Freddie relies on pace, and he doesn NOT get any faster at the age of 30.

Freddie can shine (Madrid, Juve), when we are really on top of things in the CL, when he gets more space and when his questionable first touch is not so vital with the game bein slower.

But in the EPL, every coach has seen that by sheer grit and agression, 99% of all defenders can stop Freddie Ljungberg these days - and that´s what they have been doing on a regular basis - not only this season but basically the whole of last season.

No wonder his three better games were in the CL.

Of course, he provides experience and why not start him in a 5 man-midfield, sure. But when I see the technical skill, the passing and the overall quality of Hleb, Freddie needs to sit on the bench (if Hleb is fit).

 

[patrick42uk]

lol. i find it hilarious that as this thread progresses, this myth that freddie only played 3 good games last year has risen to the status of gospel. i guess if you say something often enough......

i'v never really felt freddie relied on pace. he's always had good accleration and still does, but his strength has always been timing of runs which is more a mental strength than a physical one.

i'd hate to come across as a freddie fan. i guess ultimately i have faith in wenger's choice of players. its enough reason to find positives to defend a player. prticularly one of freddie's age. interestingly i'll bet, if asked, wenger would tell you that freddie is unique to a certain degree in world football. he's a wide player whose strengths lie heavily in movement over technial ability.

thinking about it, replacing freddie could prove a very difficult task when that decision has to be made. sure we have a new possesion based style. but a potential weakness is lack of penetration. we already see it now which is why more than ever we are relying on 'un-arsenal' goals to get us through games.

 

[gunnertilldeath]

I love Freddie Ljungberg and i feel he has been an integral part of Arsène's success at Arsenal. However, even I cannot be blind to his recent struggles to make an impact. he doesnt score as much as used to and doesnt get much in the way of assists either and it frustrates me.

One thing i do know is that we all judge him so harshly because we all know how good he has been in the past. Consider this... i have a friend. he's a yank. doesnt know very much about the sport but likes Arsenal and tries to follow the team because we were roommates and i infected him. He loves Ljungberg. more than henry, more than pires, more than king kolo. why? because of Freddie's unbridled dedication to the cause when he pulls on the red and white. he is everywhere, constantly running, harrying and frustrating opponents. he isnt the biggest guy or the strongest guy but he puts in all the effort in the world. I appreciate that alot in a player and I'll continue to love Fred for this very reason. He's always up for the fight and God bless him for it.

 

[the dawn raids]

lol. i find it hilarious that as this thread progresses, this myth that freddie only played 3 good games last year has risen to the status of gospel. i guess if you say something often enough......

i think its more down to the fact that he only scored 2 goals in all competitions last year than it is anything else.

the goals scored by our wingers lately tend to not resemble the old movements Ljungberg and Pires used to tuck away consistently, so maybe Leonardos point about him missing Bergy and that ilk is somewhat valid. but if Ljungberg cant adapt to the new approach, should we have to change to integrate him? i think you know the answer to that without me even having to ask. itll be Freddie that will have to adapt and try that extra bit to fit in with how this new breed of Cecs, Hleb , et al attack the goal, and Im yet to see him being able to do it with any great effect.

 

[ArsenalAllTheWay]

i entirely agre with the starter...arsenal now arent playing football that they were in the days or pires, bergkamp, freddie, lauren, cole who all are in the middle of the brillient flowing moves with lauren and cole making the overlapping runs for pires and freddie, providing them options. now with old players like bergkampp gone, and pires, and lauren injured, there is little understanding between freddie and the younger signings. arsenal play a more direct game now with henry even scoring headers! they pass less as teams now give them less space to play around with and more the ball around slower (in my opinion due to fabregas)

freddie needs to have a mutual understanding between the new players before he can play well. last time when bergkamp was at his prime, henry looked like a bad passer of the ball to me (honestly!) and pires and bergkamp and freddie were the best. now, with those legends gone, henry appears to be the best passer. To me, pires and bergkamp were the ONLY 2 people who truly understood henry and knew when he wanted the ball. pires was truly magnificent and people sometimes underestimate his qualty. without him and his passing abilities, i think henry would have got less than half his goal tally in the few seasons that pires was there. bergkamp too. with them both gone, henry cant have the beautiful through balls he got from vieria, pires, bergkamp so he scores less now and passes more.

freddie needs options when he plays. hoyte doesnt have ANY pace and is extremely slow at getting back to defend everytime he runs up, leaving a GAPING hole at left back and he needs gilberto or freddie to cover for him. thats why freddie cant score more goals and attack more. I respect freddies contribution to the arsenal side and still feel he is among the elite of henry, bergkamp and pires. the 'magical quartet' or arsenal.

after being so long in the premiership, teams know his style and have 2-3 players marking him everytime. without support from the lousy hoyte, he cant go anywhere with the ball. thats why he seems out of form. the new players hleb and rosincky have more time on the ball as they are new and managers dont know how to counter their attacks. So, when they sacrifice more players to mark freddie, they leave more space for hleb and rosicky to attack, making them look more impressive. defenders for example, dont like being overtaken during freddie's runs. so what do they do? they foul him. Ive seen that so many times. thats why freddie kept asking the ref to give a card early in the game so that he will have more freedom to create something later on in the game.

So.... i just ask some oof you to give him time and his quality will shine through. =) peaceout.

 

[moodymooday]

Well it's true that last year the disappearance of Pires, Ljungberg and Campbell was what caused most of our problems. All the injuries and migranes have gotten to him and now he's slower, he's predictable, he's unsure in front of goal. Unfortunately these were the main qualities to his game, so to be honest there's not much he can offer us now.

He does try, though, and that's something I like. But the problem is other people try, too, and they just offer more to the team than he does. You can talk about seniority and having balance all you want, but that's the same thing as Pires, and in the end he left. So, Freddie - he's definitely not starter material anymore, he's more squad backup; in fact if he doesn't start doing more soon I think it would be best if he left, we don't have the luxury of keeping someone around just because he's been loyal to the cause. Such is the sad reality of life in football.

 

[Clrnc]

Firstly his pace on the ball. At one time freddie had pace to burn, he wasnt the most skillful player, but could beat his man with sheer pace down the line. When was the last time anyone actually see this happen. Now the norm is for him to run aimlessly down the line, never getting close to by the defender, throw his leg over the ball in the slowest stepover of all time, then lay the ball back. If this fails you will usually see him on his arse.

Secondly his running off the ball. This for me is the biggest let down. At one time Freddie was one of the hardest guys to defend against. He would drift inside and make the most incisive perfectly timed runs into the box. Which dennis more than obliged slipping him through. His late runs for cutbacks were also difficult to defend against because by the time the defender picked him up he had already hit the back of the net. Again i ask, when was the last time someone actually see him do this?

love your first of this para. absolutely perfect

but i think its unfair to say he did not make runs. yes i know his runs is ineffective and nobody is passing to his run anymore, neither is he timing his runs to perfection. but at least he tries to run into space into the box. he was recently named as swedish captain, which i think is a shame as he is just currently running out of steam.

our right hand side has never been more dangerous than eboue and hleb. and currently it is the more dangerous part of our team. the left hand side is in shambles now due the hoyte. it was supposed to be our best last time.

and finally, yes he is not good enough anymore. even earlier age than pires. that would leave only henry that is the last of the older generation players.

 

[Captain]

i entirely agre with the starter...arsenal now arent playing football that they were in the days or pires, bergkamp, freddie, lauren, cole who all are in the middle of the brillient flowing moves with lauren....

So Freddies poor form is down to Hoyte who has no pace?

Jesus.....

 

[RocktheCasbah]

i entirely agre with the starter...arsenal now arent playing football that they were in the days or pires, bergkamp, freddie, lauren, cole who all are in the middle of the brillient flowing moves with lauren....

So Freddies poor form is down to Hoyte who has no pace?

Jesus.....

Considering Freddie's form has been a cause for concern for a bit longer than the start of the season, not sure how Justin takes the rap for it..

 

[ArsenalAllTheWay]

well, that may be true, but dont you think noe of the reasons why hes just running towards nowhere is cause he doesnt have support like he had from cole or lauren? have any of you seen hoyte make runs INTO the box? so thats the reason why he has to cut back to fabregas in midfield to spread the play to the other side and try and attack again. freddie plays by having one twos and in order to do this he needs support from the right or left back in this case hoyte cos hes playing at left wing now...get my point?

 

[Captain]

I don't actually.

When did you ever see Lauren making runs into the box?

If anything it is Freddie's fault that every full-back who plays behind him looks suspect because he doesn't give them support. Not defensively (although to be fair he tries to get back in; he just doesn't) and not offensively as he has never facilitated an overlap in his life. Look at the difference in Eboue when he has Ljungberg ahead of him and when he has Hleb.

The trade-off was understandable when he was scoring goals; now that he isn't he is a liability.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

No, because Freddie was doing this last season, and in fact when Eboue was making overlaps for him, Freddie tended to ignore them and play the ball back into midfield.

Hoyte does get forward, I've watched him do it.

 

[Christofaux]

I don't actually.

When did you ever see Lauren making runs into the box?

If anything it is Freddie's fault that every full-back who plays behind him looks suspect because he doesn't give them support. Not defensively (although to be fair he tries to get back in; he just doesn't) and not offensively as he has never facilitated an overlap in his life. Look at the difference in Eboue when he has Ljungberg ahead of him and when he has Hleb.

The trade-off was understandable when he was scoring goals; now that he isn't he is a liability.

your kidding yourself saying Freddy doesn't get back to defend successfully... sure hes not playing well but why take credit away were credit is clearly due?

I just pray he puts a few good performances together to show just how bandwagon this place is.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

I just pray he puts a few good performances together to show just how bandwagon this place is.

So you can feel all superior about him? It may surprise you to know there are a few of us who have been saying Freddie should be Arsenal history for a while now. This isn't a new fad. Anyway, prayers are all you've got, because resurrections (as I'm sure you know if you pray) only happen in the bible.

 

[Sammer]

No, because Freddie was doing this last season, and in fact when Eboue was making overlaps for him, Freddie tended to ignore them and play the ball back into midfield.

.

Ha !

How many times have we seen that last season. Freddie not passing quickly forward to Eboue, while controlling the ball. Eboué ending up in nomans-land....Freddie losing the ball to an opposition player....and our right flank getting overrun !

 

[truth_hurts]

longrufus I agree with you that Freddies lost a bit to his game and is not as potent as he was a few yers back, although I disagree with the notion that we can field a team of youngsters and still do well. Fabregas is an exception to the rule as he has already gained a whole lot of experience. Granted our older players let us down last year but their pressence was still vital - can you honestly tell me that in a big game such as a man U, chelseas, Barcalona that you wouldn't prefer ljungbergs experience over Hleb.

I'll admit that I did think Ljungberg was a had been right up until his champions league performance where he was by far our best player on the night.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

I'd take Hleb any day of the week now. He's just so much more to offer, he does know where the goal is. He's got control Ljungberg could only ever dream of, the pace that Ljungberg used to have and he links up really well with Eboue. And he combines that all with Freddie's much vaunted work ethic. How many times did Hleb run himself to a standstill last season?

I'm surprised he doesn't have more fans to be honest, I think he's a fantastic player.