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Fredrik Ljungberg (Out)

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marco

Well-Known Member
USArsenal said:
marco said:
Teams are actually scared ****less of freddy look at the charlton game or the game the other night all he ended up doing was getting fouled.

for me we are a better team with him in there his contribution is very understated

would have him above hleb every day of the week
so ludicrous, I can't even muster a response to this.... funniest thing I have heard in a while now...

scared ****less of Freddie?? haha...

Yeah they are scared off him watch how many players double up on him when he gets the ball or how much he gets man marked or fouled when he gets the ball.

ok he is injury prone a fair bit but when he plays he is vital to our team
 

marco

Well-Known Member
Im not living in the past with freddie at all ok he isnt the player who used to make those darting runs into the box in the 2002 season but then again his best link up man bergkamp isnt there anymore bit like pires and henry..

freddy has had to adapt his game, the guy never stops running for 90 mins and defenders are **** scared of him he is one of the most fouled arsenal players iwithout a shadow of a doubt
 

Gurgen

Established Member
While it's nice to have Freddie run around a lot and fall on his arse, I'd rather have Hleb who creates about 60% of our chances and is a vital player in the build up.
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
marco said:
Teams are actually scared ****less of freddy look at the charlton game or the game the other night all he ended up doing was getting fouled.

for me we are a better team with him in there his contribution is very understated

would have him above hleb every day of the week

marco, I know you go to games, but do you actually watch them?

Freddie is pretty much an irrelevance to the 2006 Arsenal side and furthermore, his comments this morning, if true, are indication of a player who needs to completely reevaluate his contribution to the side last year.

Hleb, in my eyes, has provided us with the effort Freddie used, yes used, to be famed for and with a level of skill that, frankly, Freddie never had. Don't understand the continued antipathy towards Hleb at all, I think he's been the most consistent performer in our midfield this season.
 

marco

Well-Known Member
I have no idea what he said this morning..

but for some reason the charlton away game this season sticks in my mind as one of freddies best games for ages... i dont know why, but he ran his socks off, but not only that he is occupying defenders minds..
i reall am still a fan of his, when you see him live you see all the off the ball stuff which you dont get on tv,

may well be an outdated view but i would still have him in there..

as for hleb think he started off well last year, then pettered off butand been pretty consistent this year, but still imagined him to be better than he is,

his close control is second to none but still doesnt create enough of those pires or bergkampy type defence splitting balls
 

Sammer

Established Member
marco said:
freddy has had to adapt his game, the guy never stops running for 90 mins and defenders are s**t scared of him he is one of the most fouled arsenal players iwithout a shadow of a doubt

Marco,

you are manouvering yourself in a funny position now....the more you insist on "defenders are sh*t scared of Freddie", the more your argument will get torn apart ;)

Anyway, to counter your statement: Running for 90 minutes is no qualification whatsoever. I can run for 90 minutes, because I run half-marathons. It doesn´t mean anyhthing. The question is: what does this running lead to? How quick can Freddie run (=can he beat anybody in the EPL on pace any more?) etc.

And more importantly: when he receives the ball...what does he do with it?

We all know the answer - he doesn´t do much these days. And to claim that defenders are scared sh*tless is just the funniest comment I have heard so far, because it is so far away from reality.

Vice Versa: every mediocre RB, LB would love to play against him these days. They neither have to fear his pace, his technical skill nor his physique.
If I was the manager of an opposition team and would like to give fullbacks motivating match practise...I would let them play against our current Freddie.
 

Gurgen

Established Member
Marco, I'm a big fan of Freddie too and I've defended him too many times here.

But even the most biased fan can see that he is finished as a first team starter. His pace is gone, his stamina is gone (I don't believe he has suddenly turned lazy) and I can't remember his last scoring run. Injuries have ruined him.

He was a heroic goalscorer, now there isn't much left. It's sad to see and we shouldn't forget his achievements, but it's time to face reality.
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
marco said:
i reall am still a fan of his, when you see him live you see all the off the ball stuff which you dont get on tv

I've been to more than a few games this season- and there was one game in particular (I can't remember which- Boro perhaps?) he seemed to spend the entire game on his arse. That isn't contributing to the team, it's just giving Paul Burgess more work.

And by no means was this game an exception to the rule of the last two years..
 

Captain

Established Member
Was at the sheff. United game with a west ham supporting friend and he spent basically the whole game asking me what has happened to Ljungberg (having not seen him live for a long time).

That pretty much sums up how much he has declined as the years have gone by.
 

RocktheCasbah

Established Member
Oh and Freddie basically blamed the kids for the crapness displayed by the first team on the road last year. No mention of the fact he spent most of last season on his Calvin Kleined arse, or the fact that Sol went nuts, or that Bergkamp and Pires were allowed to get old etc...
 

Chips&CurrySauce

Well-Known Member
Personally when Freddie is fit, I start to worry, as Arsène feels obliged to play him as he is one of the very few experienced players we have left..

Freddie without goals is just an average premiership player as far as I'm concerned.
 

qs

Established Member
USArsenal said:
qs said:
Another thing I appreciate with Ljungberg is his defensive awareness. Maybe Wenger considers a player with his qualities in that area to be important if we are to play with 4 midfielders again. Ribery - Gilberto - Fabregas - Hleb or Rosicky in any of those places won't cut it against physical teams.

I'm not sure Ljungberg is finished in Arsenal at all, but I sure am worried. He needs to get in positions, and he must find the confidence to beat players again. Surely, he can't have become that much slower at the age of 29? Despite injuries.
couple of things...

a) his defensive awareness? we have conceded 7 goals in the league this season.. that is less than EVERYONE except ManU (6) - including Chelsea... most of our defensive problems come from set pieces, where Freddie would be utterly useless anyway

b) confidence to beat players AGAIN? he never has... every time he was a threat in the past, he wasnt beating players, he was running into space and Bergy, TH or Pires would get the ball to that space.. the focus of our game has changed and we no longer have a tendency to play to space, but to feet, and that is where Freddie is not good enough for the starting XI anymore... technically, he is a very unsound (is that a word?) player...

the only thing he has going for him is his determination and "fire", if you will... but i dont see that he has anything that someone like Flamini doesnt have.. he has fire and passion as well, and is faster with slightly better technical ability than Freddie.... we can only persist with sentiment so long before it becomes a burden to the team, and I personally think that point came last year...

You've misquoted, i didnt say any of that
 

Sammer

Established Member
Chips&CurrySauce said:
Personally when Freddie is fit, I start to worry, as Arsène feels obliged to play him as he is one of the very few experienced players we have left..

Freddie without goals is just an average premiership player as far as I'm concerned.


I was just going to make a point about Arsènes trust . On a positive note, it probably shows Arsènes loyalty to Freddie - or the (in my view unjustified) hope, that somehow the old Freddie will turn up again.

Either way, I reckon that when Rosicky and Hleb fit, he will not start many games any more.
 

USArsenal

H.Y.I.C.
qs said:
You've misquoted, i didnt say any of that
i guess my point was that no matter what positive qualities Freddie may still have, others in the squad have those qualities as much as, of more than Freddie does... Hleb is not irresponsible defensively and Tomas is more of a "forward pushing" midfielder, but he has only played 10 games and adjusting from the previous 6 years of being a forward with a "free" role... i just dont think that Freddie's qualities are enough to ever make him a regular starter in the squad anymore... our game has morphed into the midfield taking more attacking responsibility and creating plays, something Freddie just is not equipped to do, and never was... not to mention that Hleb and Eboue's understanding of each other is building quite nicely, and Clichy (or Traore) could build the same with Tomas or Walcott... Freddie just isnt capable of forming that kind of understanding with someone who doesnt play to space like Paddy or Bobby or Bergy used to do... our game is built around possesion now, whereas our previous game was built on counter-attacking and breaking fast.... he, IMO, doesnt have the skill set to play the possesion game...
 

Chips&CurrySauce

Well-Known Member
i think you're right Sammer, I think when everyone is fully fit both rosicky and Hleb are ahead of Freddie (on the flanks) and if we play a 451, I'd like to think Baptista is ahead of him in the central role (once fully fit and up to the pace of the premiership).. However in view that Freddie doesn't offer a great deal it seems he's just blocking the path for Theo and even aliadiere I would argue offers more on the flanks, in terms of pace and goal threat...

It's a pity but as Thierry says, 'thats just the way it is'
 

Clrnc

Established Member
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Player:Tomiyasu
he was pretty pathetic as usual vs hamburg. he gives us absolutely nothing
 

Dennis10

Active Member
arsenal_hleb said:
he was pretty pathetic as usual vs hamburg. he gives us absolutely nothing

I didn't think he played bad at all to be honest, but he didn't create much and had no end product. Maybe a step in the right direction for him, but I don't feel certain he'll progress much more. As a lot of you say, he may be finished. i guess I just find it a little difficult to accept, and so does Wenger.
 

Gryphon

Active Member
would have him above hleb every day of the week

no way, freddie is nothing compared to hleb right now, hlebs probaly our best mi going on recent form
there is no point wondering wheter the ljungberg of 2002 was better that the hleb of today. more important would be if freddie can relive half of that form, even that would boost the team

but for some reason the charlton away game this season sticks in my mind as one of freddies best games for ages... i dont know why, but he ran his socks off, but not only that he is occupying defenders minds..

oddly enough that was, in my opinion, hlebs best ever game. he was responsible for both the goals and i dont think he lost the ball even once that day :)
 

Feis-al

Active Member
arsenal_hleb said:
he was pretty pathetic as usual vs hamburg. he gives us absolutely nothing

But he had just come back from a long injury and as far as am concerned, he did fairly well and we needed fresh legs. We don't have Henry and RvP, I think with Freddies experience, he will do exactly what is asked of him, close the saliva boy down and help in the attack. i believe Freddie still has alot to offer especially if we are leading and need to hold on for the lead.
 

qs

Established Member
USArsenal said:
qs said:
You've misquoted, i didnt say any of that
i guess my point was that no matter what positive qualities Freddie may still have, others in the squad have those qualities as much as, of more than Freddie does... Hleb is not irresponsible defensively and Tomas is more of a "forward pushing" midfielder, but he has only played 10 games and adjusting from the previous 6 years of being a forward with a "free" role... i just dont think that Freddie's qualities are enough to ever make him a regular starter in the squad anymore... our game has morphed into the midfield taking more attacking responsibility and creating plays, something Freddie just is not equipped to do, and never was... not to mention that Hleb and Eboue's understanding of each other is building quite nicely, and Clichy (or Traore) could build the same with Tomas or Walcott... Freddie just isnt capable of forming that kind of understanding with someone who doesnt play to space like Paddy or Bobby or Bergy used to do... our game is built around possesion now, whereas our previous game was built on counter-attacking and breaking fast.... he, IMO, doesnt have the skill set to play the possesion game...


Make your points by all means but dont bring me into it I never said Freddie should be in the first 11 and I never said eh was at at the same standard as Rosicky or Hleb.

I said he was a good player to have when one of the main team needed a rest and that he was better than Flamini and Diaby as cover.
 
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