Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[razörist]

B-but some 300lb kfc experts online swore his injury was fake and he was picking and choosing which games to appear in?

Its always the same guys, not worth your time mate.

 

[Jury]

B-but some 300lb kfc experts online swore his injury was fake and he was picking and choosing which games to appear in?

Some did, some reckoned Arsenal should come before his WC ambitions... Why was he playing V Austria if he was so near to breaking down?

 

[Jury]

FWIW, I think his knee is the real injury. I think the German team know where they are with his back and are probably satisfied they can nurse him through the WC. A troublesome knees obviously presents potential long term risks.

But lets ignore the fact that it's his knee that's the real problem, so the usual mob can say "Seee, it's his baaaack!"

 

[Oh_Snap]

No, the DFB said clearly since he joined them he has back problems. The knee came on top in the austria game. If you wanna go in to conspiracies ride the erdogan-topic. it's still hot here in germany and if u look in the forums of some right wing newspapers it's "to protect özil from the angry mob" since he's not talking to journalists about the topic, even avoided the dfb media day (Gündogan appeared there and answered the journos).

 

[akhil]

FWIW, I think his knee is the real injury. I think the German team know where they are with his back and are probably satisfied they can nurse him through the WC. A troublesome knees obviously presents potential long term risks.

But lets ignore the fact that it's his knee that's the real problem, so the usual mob can say "Seee, it's his baaaack!"

With our luck, you know something's going to happen at the world cup and he won't play for us until November or something. Or we play prematurely when he eventually comes back after his break post world cup and he breaks down.

 

[Jury]

No, the DFB said clearly since he joined them he has back problems. The knee came on top in the austria game. If you wanna go in to conspiracies ride the erdogan-topic.

Arsenal knew he had back problems too! There’s not a doubt about him nursing a niggling back problem. Must be sheer coincidence that as soon as a knee problem is mentioned, he’s in danger of missing the WC....

 

[Xhaka is class]

No, the DFB said clearly since he joined them he has back problems. The knee came on top in the austria game. If you wanna go in to conspiracies ride the erdogan-topic. it's still hot here in germany and if u look in the forums of some right wing newspapers it's "to protect özil from the angry mob" since he's not talking to journalists about the topic, even avoided the dfb media day (Gündogan appeared there and answered the journos).

I really don't get all the mass hysteria surrounding their meeting with Erdogan, what makes it such a big deal? .

 

[Xhaka is class]

Arsenal knew he had back problems too! There’s not a doubt about him nursing a niggling back problem. Must be sheer coincidence that as soon as a knee problem is mentioned, he’s in danger of missing the WC....

It's pretty easy to follow actually no conspiracy theories needed, he had niggling back injuries throughout the season and wasn't picked to play in a bunch of relatively Meaningless games for us, while he injured his knee in the game against Austria after a pretty robust challenge.

 

[Xhaka is class]

It's pretty easy to follow actually no conspiracy theories needed, he had niggling back injuries throughout the season and wasn't picked to play in a bunch of relatively Meaningless games for us, while he injured his knee in the game against Austria after a pretty robust challenge.

At the end of the season mind you

 

[Jury]

It's pretty easy to follow actually no conspiracy theories needed, he had niggling back injuries throughout the season and wasn't picked to play in a bunch of relatively Meaningless games for us, while he injured his knee in the game against Austria after a pretty robust challenge.

It is indeed very easy to follow—without having to make stuff up. As usual though, when on the topic of Özil, logic seems to go out the window and convenient drivel seems to replace it.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

It is indeed very easy to follow—without having to make stuff up. As usual though, when on the topic of Özil, logic seems to go out the window and convenient drivel seems to replace it.

Tbh when it comes to Arsenal fans it's not just with Özil that logic goes out the window and convenient drivel replacing it. Look at how many people rate Xhaka all of a sudden.

Arsenal fans don't know how to rate our players tbh, then more of us would realise that we've built a **** squad over the last few years and that's just as much part of the reason we've dropped out the top 4 in the last 2 seasons as Wenger was.

 

[Toby]

I really don't get all the mass hysteria surrounding their meeting with Erdogan, what makes it such a big deal? .

- big debate about immigration, integration, national culture, national identity and identification, multiculturalism, Christianity vs Islam on the back of the refugee situation

- in the above debate an event like the Gundogan/Özil/Erdogan incident is an easy target for rising right wingers

- a lot of Germans are of Turkish descent and have strong ties to their forefathers country, for some people these ties are too strong and it's always been a go to topic when talking about immigration and integration to stir the pot (it mostly comes up with people of Turkish or Islamic heritage now, althoug the "too much foreign heritage" stick has been used to beat various ethnically diverse German groups, e.g. Polish-Germans, Russian-Germans, Czech-Germans/Sudetes, Transsylvanian Germans, even Italian-Germans. The list goes on

- a strenuous relationship between Turkey and Germany, beginning with Turkey's failed EU application, then the refugee deal, then Erdogan imprisoning German journos, most of Turkish descent

- Erdogan is the current go to foreign bad guy over here, which is tied to the large group of Turkish Germans, and fits into a larger religious context, which in turn ties in to the third point I wrote

- the World Cup, in which Özil and Gündogan will represent Germany, is afoot, which ties in to the first three points made and keeps the incident in the limelight

 

[Oh_Snap]

- in the above debate an event like the Gundogan/Özil/Erdogan incident is an easy target for rising right wingers
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Hypocracy is real tho...going to a game a against Saudi Arabia in the BAYER-arena (who just bought monsanto or are about to) to prepare for a WC in Russia. Let's hyperventilate about pictures.

 

[razörist]

It's pretty easy to follow actually no conspiracy theories needed, he had niggling back injuries throughout the season and wasn't picked to play in a bunch of relatively Meaningless games for us, while he injured his knee in the game against Austria after a pretty robust challenge.

You’re talking to @Jury here mate. The guy is probably scouring German forums, trying to find people willing to start an Özil lynch mob with him, and looking up group tickets to Russia on BudgetAir.

 

[Toby]

Hypocracy is real tho...going to a game a against Saudi Arabia in the BAYER-arena (who just bought monsanto or are about to) to prepare for a WC in Russia. Let's hyperventilate about pictures.

Let's not turn this way again. This sort of argument kills any serious discussion, and it's been horrible on here at times.

We can't deflect from one problem to another that's not even connected to it to kill the discussion, careless of which side you're on. "I think we should talk about the Özil/Gündogan/Erdogan incident." -"But but Saudi Arabia...!" Discussion ended. That shouldn't be how it works.

Of course there is a lot of hypocrisy involved. Erdogan is the autocratic bad guy of the Bosporus, but the Saudis are super nice to everyone and still our best friends? Yeah, sure. But the Saudis being bad and the Western world turning a blind eye doesn't excempt Erdogan of any blame.

Bayer Arena and Monsanto....yeah. That's as far removed from the Özil/Erdogan thing as you can get. It tucks in to the stance that freedom is an illusion in our world, too, the media is as controlled as in an autocratic state, too, etc. through e.g. capitalist mechanics etc. Sure. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about countries in which you can be killed or imprisoned for writing or saying the wrong things.

Our wrongdoings do not excempt other people from their wrongdoings. And deflecting shouldn't kill our discussions. If we're really going down the "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"-route we'll never get anywhere, turning in circles.


Now with the latest post I just wanted to neutrally answer the poster's question why the incident was such a big deal. Regardless of your stance on how grave the situation was, and how hypocritical some of the stances are, it nevertheless is a big thing in Germany, even weeks after. And as of that I think it's a topic one should talk about, instead of deflecting. Let's have a real talk about it, and perhaps there'll be space for the hypocrisy debate in it. Because yes, it started as a poke into the german immigration/integration debate, but in the aftermath has amassed a couple of more implications regarding international relations and public behaviour, and there's always been the big question, at least to me: Why does the public castigate two mere players the way it does here, but the big corps, the FIFA, the UEFA, who are politcally speaking at least elephants in a porcelain shop, corrupt to the bone, seldolmy get this kind of stick?

So, instead of deflecting and killing a discussion the Jesus way, I think openly talking and taking in a variety of perspectives is the better way.

 

[Flying Okapis]

Let's not turn this way again. This sort of argument kills any serious discussion, and it's been horrible on here at times.

We can't deflect from one problem to another that's not even connected to it to kill the discussion, careless of which side you're on. "I think we should talk about the Özil/Gündogan/Erdogan incident." -"But but Saudi Arabia...!" Discussion ended. That shouldn't be how it works.

Of course there is a lot of hypocrisy involved. Erdogan is the autocratic bad guy of the Bosporus, but the Saudis are super nice to everyone and still our best friends? Yeah, sure. But the Saudis being bad and the Western world turning a blind eye doesn't excempt Erdogan of any blame.

Bayer Arena and Monsanto....yeah. That's as far removed from the Özil/Erdogan thing as you can get. It tucks in to the stance that freedom is an illusion in our world, too, the media is as controlled as in an autocratic state, too, etc. through e.g. capitalist mechanics etc. Sure. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't talk about countries in which you can be killed or imprisoned for writing or saying the wrong things.

Our wrongdoings do not excempt other people from their wrongdoings. And deflecting shouldn't kill our discussions. If we're really going down the "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"-route we'll never get anywhere, turning in circles.


Now with the latest post I just wanted to neutrally answer the poster's question why the incident was such a big deal. Regardless of your stance on how grave the situation was, and how hypocritical some of the stances are, it nevertheless is a big thing in Germany, even weeks after. And as of that I think it's a topic one should talk about, instead of deflecting. Let's have a real talk about it, and perhaps there'll be space for the hypocrisy debate in it. Because yes, it started as a poke into the german immigration/integration debate, but in the aftermath has amassed a couple of more implications regarding international relations and public behaviour, and there's always been the big question, at least to me: Why does the public castigate two mere players the way it does here, but the big corps, the FIFA, the UEFA, who are politcally speaking at least elephants in a porcelain shop, corrupt to the bone, seldolmy get this kind of stick?

So, instead of deflecting and killing a discussion the Jesus way, I think openly talking and taking in a variety of perspectives is the better way.

I think regarding the players there isnt much to really discuss, I really doubt that they are too heavily invested in the political side of things, I think they just attended a meeting with the guy and didnt really think much of it and have been swept up in the media storm that has resulted.

They are just being used for the bigger picture in my opinion.

 

[Toby]

I think regarding the players there isnt much to really discuss, I really doubt that they are too heavily invested in the political side of things, I think they just attended a meeting with the guy and didnt really think much of it and have been swept up in the media storm that has resulted.

They are just being used for the bigger picture in my opinion.

I'm thinking the same regarding the players individually. They didn't think too much about it. Although you could argue that Emre Can turned down the invitation to the same event and their PR teams were clever enough not to post it on their own accounts - make of that what you will. But like I said, I find it strange to have a go at mere players when FIFA/UEFA are a bunch of politically incorrect mobsters. Start there.

The poster asked why it's still such a big thing in Germany after weeks, and I answered. Obviously there's something to it for the majority of german public, or else it would have died done by now - and it's mainly the context I laid out. These two are the unfortunate ones being caught up in it, and the discussion shouldn't be about them exclusively or fought on their backs, that would be wrong - like you said they're being used for the bigger picture, and it shouldn't be that way, but still barring in mind there's obviously a big discussion about all things related, which makes it understandale that it's still a hot topic, especially with the WC around.

I do actually rate that Gündogan went and talked to the press, I think it was the right move.

 

[Flying Okapis]

I'm thinking the same regarding the players individually. They didn't think too much about it. Although you could argue that Emre Can turned down the invitation to the same event and their PR teams were clever enough not to post it on their own accounts - make of that what you will. But like I said, I find it strange to have a go at mere players when FIFA/UEFA are a bunch of politically incorrect mobsters. Start there.

The poster asked why it's still such a big thing in Germany after weeks, and I answered. Obviously there's something to it for the majority of german public, or else it would have died done by now - and it's mainly the context I laid out. These two are the unfortunate ones being caught up in it, and the discussion shouldn't be about them exclusively or fought on their backs, that would be wrong - like you said they're being used for the bigger picture, and it shouldn't be that way, but still barring in mind there's obviously a big discussion about all things related, which makes it understandale that it's still a hot topic, especially with the WC around.

I do actually rate that Gündogan went and talked to the press, I think it was the right move.

I agree, I said at the time it must be extremely difficult being in the players shoes, imagine getting contacted by a presedent/king/mayor etc who has requested to meet you and you have family ties in that country, how exactly do you go about rejecting it? Sometimes its easier just to go and smile.

Again said the same about the media, I wish they both just came out at the time and said 'we met him so what?', I would engage in conversation with you regarding the whole situation however I'm not fully clued up on the topic and its a subject you are more familiar with. The media interest has pretty much died down in the UK, I think they only really cared if the players got left out the WC squads.

 

[Jury]

You’re talking to @Jury here mate. The guy is probably scouring German forums, trying to find people willing to start an Özil lynch mob with him, and looking up group tickets to Russia on BudgetAir.

You’re becoming proper bender these days.

 

[Oh_Snap]

Let's not turn this way again. This sort of argument kills any serious discussion, and it's been horrible on here at times.

We can't deflect from one problem to another that's not even connected to it to kill the discussion, careless of which side you're on. "I think we should talk about the Özil/Gündogan/Erdogan incident." -"But but Saudi Arabia...!" Discussion ended. That shouldn't be how it works.

That was more to the german public than a justification for gündogans and özils action (and i think u know that). u may wanna call it whataboutism but i dont like this expression anymore as its often short fetched and used to narrow discussions. the time for this debate was already here when we found out that a huge percentage of germans of turkish decent voted for erdogan. it had 2 days of media-attention and it was done. now we're in week 3 (?) of this **** and it still going on - with no real debate at all but finger pointing.

the photo just seems so minor to me compared to the attention it still gets and the stuff people have appearently no problem with.

the people that play the drum in this game at the moment are the same that use terms like "id-card german" and "he doesn't sing the national anthem" and i'm not sure i wanna get in on this tune. there's a place for this debate, this is not it.

. But like I said, I find it strange to have a go at mere players when FIFA/UEFA are a bunch of politically incorrect mobsters. Start there.