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Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

Do you want Özil sold this summer?


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Fewtch

Özil at 10 And Emery Out
Thanks for wording thoughts I have been trying to articulate so brilliantly here. Quite a poignant topic for me (as a white South African) and it is refreshing to see that the idiots are a minority.
I’ve seen it so much on Twitter (and irl) and when the comments are practically identical to each other it’s understandable to cause some confusion.

African who is happy that French players with African backgrounds reach success in the world:
“Haha Africa won the World Cup:lol: !!!”

Racist who is mad that blacks and Arabs are representing his country and are being celebrated:
“Haha Africa won the World Cup:lol:!!!”
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
I find it strange seeing people being offended over Africans calling the french team an “african” team in jest. No one is really claiming that their nationality is anything other than french, otherwise they’d play for the countries their parents emigrated from.
The players are clearly ethnically african though and that isn’t something the French can hide no matter how much they try. It’s a case of accepting people for who they truly are.


Another side of the story though is the racists who try to shame countries for being open and inclusive by calling them an “African” team. That’s a whole different issue and shouldn’t be conflated with the previous one.

Exactly. People are confusing citizenship with ethnicity. I hate when people like the French ambassador say stuff like "I don't see colour". Yes you do. I want you to acknowledge my ethnic identity. Just don't make it a stigma.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
I’ve seen it so much on Twitter (and irl) and when the comments are practically identical to each other it’s understandable to cause some confusion.

African who is happy that French players with African backgrounds reach success in the world:
“Haha Africa won the World Cup:lol: !!!”

Racist who is mad that blacks and Arabs are representing his country and are being celebrated:
“Haha Africa won the World Cup:lol:!!!”

YES
 

m-due

Well-Known Member
Also pretty disgusting from the vast majority of the German team not saying anything about it.

Cowards to a man.

Remember how quickly the Swedish National Team and Federation backed their teammate Jimmy Durmaz [Turkish heritage] after receiving vile abuse and threats on social media. They drew the line on the issue the very next day. The scope of the issue might different but the support should always be the same.
 

stiiphunn

Established Member
Exactly. People are confusing citizenship with ethnicity. I hate when people like the French ambassador say stuff like "I don't see colour". Yes you do. I want you to acknowledge my ethnic identity. Just don't make it a stigma.
I know it was only a joke and I know it wasn’t meant to be a criticism of the French NT. But what Noah said was clumsy and does more harm than good.

First, saying “Africa won the world cup” is different than saying “French players with African origins won the world cup”. The former was Noah's joke - the latter is what he ultimately explained in response to the Ambassador's letter. They’re two very different things. Again, I understand that it was a joke and if it’s too subtle it doesn’t work. But that sort of explains why that joke wasn’t necessarily well received.

Second, I don’t think the French ambassador was arguing that they have to “erase everything that is African” or that "he doesn't see colour". This is overly simplistic. In fact, that letter from the Ambassador explicitly acknowledges that these French players have different origins and backgrounds.

Third, and I think this is why a lot of folks were uncomfortable with this joke, why is it always “African players” that have to be singled out? In that French team, you also had Griezmann who has German origins. You have Hernandez who has Spanish origins. You have Lloris who also has Spanish origins. And Giroud’s grandmothers were both Italian. Yet, only the African players are being singled out. Why? Interesting to see that French players themselves were a bit annoyed that their origins became a topic of discussion in, e.g., the US.

Fourth, these sort of jokes are actually doing the far right a favor. They’re saying exactly the same thing. It’s obviously not Noah's intention but, unfortunately, it’s a fact.

In any event, what matters the most is that both the Ambassador's message and Noah's message were obviously meant to be positive: France truly benefits from its diversity. They just have different ways of expressing it...
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
THANK YOU!! I had so many debates with people saying TDKR is one of the best superhero movie I lost track. Glad to have the caped crusader himself on my side
That movie was doomed to disappoint. Nolan's heart wasn't in it after Ledger died but WB had given him 200 million to do Inception with the understanding that he'd be completing the trilogy so that was the best he could manage emotionally. My somewhat unpopular opinion is that Batman Begins is actually the best technical movie of the 3 but Heath Ledger is so extraordinary in TDK that he elevates it from really good to iconic levels by himself.
 

Rain Dance

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
That movie was doomed to disappoint. Nolan's heart wasn't in it after Ledger died but WB had given him 200 million to do Inception with the understanding that he'd be completing the trilogy so that was the best he could manage emotionally. My somewhat unpopular opinion is that Batman Begins is actually the best technical movie of the 3 but Heath Ledger is so extraordinary in TDK that he elevates it from really good to iconic levels by himself.
Damn that's my opinion too !
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
I know it was only a joke and I know it wasn’t meant to be a criticism of the French NT. But what Noah said was clumsy and does more harm than good.

First, saying “Africa won the world cup” is different than saying “French players with African origins won the world cup”. The former was Noah's joke - the latter is what he ultimately explained in response to the Ambassador's letter. They’re two very different things. Again, I understand that it was a joke and if it’s too subtle it doesn’t work. But that sort of explains why that joke wasn’t necessarily well received.

Second, I don’t think the French ambassador was arguing that they have to “erase everything that is African” or that "he doesn't see colour". This is overly simplistic. In fact, that letter from the Ambassador explicitly acknowledges that these French players have different origins and backgrounds.

Third, and I think this is why a lot of folks were uncomfortable with this joke, why is it always “African players” that have to be singled out? In that French team, you also had Griezmann who has German origins. You have Hernandez who has Spanish origins. You have Lloris who also has Spanish origins. And Giroud’s grandmothers were both Italian. Yet, only the African players are being singled out. Why? Interesting to see that French players themselves were a bit annoyed that their origins became a topic of discussion in, e.g., the US.

Fourth, these sort of jokes are actually doing the far right a favor. They’re saying exactly the same thing. It’s obviously not Noah's intention but, unfortunately, it’s a fact.

In any event, what matters the most is that both the Ambassador's message and Noah's message were obviously meant to be positive: France truly benefits from its diversity. They just have different ways of expressing it...
Let me tell you, as a South African, I have 0 respect for Trevor Noah. He constantly makes inappropriate jokes which are designed to hit nerves. He has also completely sold himself out to US propaganda machines. So when you say it isn't Noah's intention I disagree. These comedians like to hide behind the veil of comedy to promote agendas. Noah has been doing this his whole career way back to his roots in Soweto.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
That movie was doomed to disappoint. Nolan's heart wasn't in it after Ledger died but WB had given him 200 million to do Inception with the understanding that he'd be completing the trilogy so that was the best he could manage emotionally. My somewhat unpopular opinion is that Batman Begins is actually the best technical movie of the 3 but Heath Ledger is so extraordinary in TDK that he elevates it from really good to iconic levels by himself.
WE NEED A BATMAN THREAD. Or a comic book legends thread? Would feel wrong if you didn't start this @Batman
 

krengon

One Arsène Wenger
Trusted ⭐
I know it was only a joke and I know it wasn’t meant to be a criticism of the French NT. But what Noah said was clumsy and does more harm than good.

First, saying “Africa won the world cup” is different than saying “French players with African origins won the world cup”. The former was Noah's joke - the latter is what he ultimately explained in response to the Ambassador's letter. They’re two very different things. Again, I understand that it was a joke and if it’s too subtle it doesn’t work. But that sort of explains why that joke wasn’t necessarily well received.

Second, I don’t think the French ambassador was arguing that they have to “erase everything that is African” or that "he doesn't see colour". This is overly simplistic. In fact, that letter from the Ambassador explicitly acknowledges that these French players have different origins and backgrounds.

Third, and I think this is why a lot of folks were uncomfortable with this joke, why is it always “African players” that have to be singled out? In that French team, you also had Griezmann who has German origins. You have Hernandez who has Spanish origins. You have Lloris who also has Spanish origins. And Giroud’s grandmothers were both Italian. Yet, only the African players are being singled out. Why? Interesting to see that French players themselves were a bit annoyed that their origins became a topic of discussion in, e.g., the US.

Fourth, these sort of jokes are actually doing the far right a favor. They’re saying exactly the same thing. It’s obviously not Noah's intention but, unfortunately, it’s a fact.

In any event, what matters the most is that both the Ambassador's message and Noah's message were obviously meant to be positive: France truly benefits from its diversity. They just have different ways of expressing it...

Yeah good points, I know this joke even if it's supposed to be positive plays right into the far right and racists hands(I've been guilty of saying similar too). Thuram hit back at Le Pen awhile ago over similar comments:

"What can I say about Monsieur Le Pen?" said Thuram ruefully. "Clearly, he is unaware that there are Frenchmen who are black, Frenchmen who are white, Frenchmen who are brown. I think that reflects particularly badly on a man who has aspirations to be president of France but yet clearly doesn't know anything about French history or society.
"When we take to the field, we do so as Frenchmen. All of us. When people were celebrating our win, they were celebrating us as Frenchmen, not black men or white men. It doesn't matter if we're black or not, because we're French. I've just got one thing to say to Jean Marie Le Pen. The French team are all very, very proud to be French. If he's got a problem with us, that's down to him but we are proud to represent this country. So Vive la France, but the true France. Not the France that he wants."

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2006/jun/30/worldcup2006.sport3

By saying Africa won the wc, you are making them seem less french and in the end you only end up empowering idiots like this:

 
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