• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

PL: Southampton vs Arsenal | December 16, 2018 13:30 GMT | Sky Sports

Match prediction

  • Southampton win

    Votes: 8 18.2%
  • Draw

    Votes: 5 11.4%
  • Arsenal win

    Votes: 31 70.5%

  • Total voters
    44
Status
Not open for further replies.

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
I've been saying this all season. I've sometimes been called negative for pointing out what is patently obvious. The fact of the matter is that up until now, Emery has mostly been wrong. We've just been having the kind of luck that makes it easy to disregard the issues. And nothing I've seen this season has given me confidence that we can make top 4. I'd even say we are more likely to somehow end up behind united instead.

Completely agree with you. Think it's baffling at what kind of straws people are clutching to paint a picture of progress, when the matter of fact is that if you look at most on pitch performances, taking away the very benevolent lamination of that unbeaten run, the team has seldomly looked more stringent, more coherent or more distinct than last season. It's still not clear to me what Emery is trying to do here, what kind of team he wants to build. A possession side? A pressing oriented transition team? Counter attacking team? And this definitely cannot be argued away by the unbalanced squad argument.
A lot of (incoming) managers have that problem and get their ideas across and their new teams to play more distinct. Watch out for Hasenhuttl at Southampton; I don't think it'll take too long to see the first glimpses of his style. Sarri plays with Hazard as CF 'cause Morata and Giroud are ****e. Half of Hoffenheim's team is full of plumbers and he still gets them into the CL.

And as someone who is also a fan of another club and at that a lot more used to the common practice of often changing managers, I maintain the idea that you change managers cause you deem something wrong and you want to raise at least the performance short term and mid to long term the countable results e.g. league position.

Right now, I don't really see that massive upgrade in Emery in comparison to the last manager. I actually think the recent signings go a long way to explain the seeming upturn. Sokratis is better than what we had at CB before, Torreira adds unbelievably much to the team, with Aubameyang there's one of Europe's top goalscorer in the team.

Emery is definitely doing a job and a stable one at that, but up until now in my opinion it remains to be seen if he's the man to take the club further than the last manager could at the end, short or long term. And in the end, that's what counts, because that is the sole reason to change managers and thus ultimately the only way to justify someone being the manager. For clubs in "transition" there's a little added context of things going on at the club at more levels so managers should be treated with more patience, e.g. Emery and Kovac. But still, the club has to be very clear about what they deem a transition period - you don't want to end up missing out on targets and then explain it away by being in transition and using it as an apology for the manager longterm.

And before you have a go at me with "what did you expect, the league title?": No. Absolutely not. That's not what this is about. I mainly expected the new guy to have a go at the obvious tactical on pitch problems, give the team a coherent style again, a plan on how to regularly score without utmost reliance on individual moments or opposition errors, a structure to defend as a team and the introduction of a more coherent press. That's what I expected and if it took the whole season with shorter unbeaten runs, more losses and finishing 6th, that would have been okay with me, as long as I see that the coach has a clear idea of football and he gets the team to play that way. Better and more consistent performances and thus a better league position would then automatically arrive as a result of that. But right now I'm not really seeing this and that's why I'm wary and sceptical of Emery, cause by now he's not managed to address the most glaring problems this team already had under Wenger - and just stacking up on better players won't do the trick alone.
 
Last edited:

Manberg

Predator
Too much negativity around here. We know our squad's got problems and it will take time to fix them. Today's result doesn't change anything.

Unless we go on to lose 3 of our next 5 games it's difficult to deny that we have improved with Emery.

Hopefully the team is itching to set things right, starting with Sp**s on Wednesday. We beat them and this will all be forgotten.
 

Aevi

Hale End FC
Moderator
Too much negativity around here. We know our squad's got problems and it will take time to fix them. Today's result doesn't change anything.

Unless we go on to lose 3 of our next 5 games it's difficult to deny that we have improved with Emery.

Hopefully the team is itching to set things right, starting with Sp**s on Wednesday. We beat them and this will all be forgotten.
Analyzing negative things is not negativity.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Too much negativity around here. We know our squad's got problems and it will take time to fix them. Today's result doesn't change anything.

A lot of squads have "problems". I'd actually say any squad in the world bar City has "problems". Still, a lot of managers have a wholesome idea about football and get that across to their "problematic", unbalanced and low quality squads and make them play in a distinct way, giving them the tools to defend and score regardless of quality or problems. I really don't think just stacking up on more quality will solve the real tactical problems at Arsenal Emery hasn't been able to address yet.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Here's my post number 2000.

IT'S GOING TO GET A LOT WORSE. So if you're after trophies, now's the time to bail out.

Today I read a sad statistic which confirms what I've worried about for years. Chelsea have overtaken us on social media.

Now I hate social media but I fear this means that our worldwide fan bas is eroding as young people getting into football see us as a lesser club than they did some years back. Why? Because we're not challenging for the big trophies. And why aren't we challenging for the big trophies? Because we're not investing in players at anywhere near the same pace as a whole swathe of rivals.

So this will be a kind of self-fulfilling vicious circle. At this point someone normally cries out: "Hold on! This Stan Kronke is a clever guy! He may not want to spend money but he wants to protect his investment!" Sure. Except his idea of success is not your idea of success. You want trophies. He wants money. The premiership is a rich league, the richest. The team who ends up 15th makes good money, provided they don't spend that money they are profitable. So the trick is to stay in the premiership and remaining profitable, not wasting money on chasing trophies.

This is our future. The one wildcard here is the sleeping/fallen giant syndrome. We are now the 5th or 6th biggest team in England - for this new generation of football fans. If this view becomes entrenched we are susceptible to falling further down the list at which point we either spend money or slip further down the pecking order. Except we have an owner who will not spend money!

Now do you see where this is going?

I have seen the future, it is murder.
I don’t see why we should slip down the pecking order. Emery looks like a guy who can out perform his squad cost given a bit of help from Sven. So expecting top 4 maybe next year.

Wenger out performed his spending position every year but one.

When the owner is spending 5th you’re never going to challenge for the league, unless it’s a freak year like Leicester. City team is €900+, we’re €400+. Emery’s not a magician ffs.
 

CurryFlavoured

Established Member
Disappointing way to end the streak. Soton's goals were good but conceding three headed goals from crosses isn't good enough. Leno also made a balls of the winner - if you come for a ball like that you need to know that you'll get it, otherwise it's an open goal.

It was a tough situation to be faced with though. The back three couldn't inspire any confidence - a full back, a midfielder and an old injury prone CB just coming back. Soton really took advantage.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
When a manager loses, fans are always telling him what he should have done differently.

Hindsight stuff is so easy when you know the result. Making those calls before a game is not quite the same.

Any manager who goes on a 22 unbeaten run in his first season is doing a lot right. He’s performing better than Klopp, Mourinho and Pep in their first seasons in charge.

We need to stop the negativity and support the guy.
 

DanDare

Emoji Merchant and Believer-In-Chief
Trusted ⭐

Player:Saliba
A lot of squads have "problems". I'd actually say any squad in the world bar City has "problems". Still, a lot of managers have a wholesome idea about football and get that across to their "problematic", unbalanced and low quality squads and make them play in a distinct way, giving them the tools to defend and score regardless of quality or . I really don't think just stacking up on more quality will solve the real tactical problems at Arsenal Emery hasn't been able to address yet.

You can buy players who have been coached well tactically in the past and also naturally have tactical ability
 

rich 1990

Not A Big Believer In Diversity
How did I get an alert that you quoted me for this post? I was confused for a sec, I was like I didn't write that until I saw the name haha.
I was going to respond to a post you posted earlier where you wished me a happy birthday to tell you, and others, to **** off when I decided I couldn't be arsed. When I quoted Mo a few hours later, where I quoted you was saved on the reply page so when I posted to tell Mo to get his act together, I also posted your post and for some reason, the number 44. I soon edited it.

Bet you're glad you asked now.
 

Maybe

You're wrong, no?
When a manager loses, fans are always telling him what he should have done differently.

Hindsight stuff is so easy when you know the result. Making those calls before a game is not quite the same.


Any manager who goes on a 22 unbeaten run in his first season is doing a lot right. He’s performing better than Klopp, Mourinho and Pep in their first seasons in charge.

We need to stop the negativity and support the guy.
Rubbish, people started to lose hope as soon as they saw line ups and formation.
 

#254

Well-Known Member
I've never seen a defensive show as bad as I've seen today! Kos was so bad, you'd think he was a 17 year old on his first call up to the first team. All three goals were scored in the exact same manner and he was to blame for all in the exact same way! Basic defending calls for a defender to be closest to the striker when the ball is crossed in from the flank so the defender heads it out first or puts the striker off balance if he can't get to the ball himself !

Kos kept repeating the same mistake over and over .It's a shame that he captains our side and makes such mistakes! A defender his age is supposed to be on his peak! Terry was absolutely phenomenal at his age!
We need a clear out in the summer. Inject new blood. I'd rather even Meadly made this mistakes! 1/10 really
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
You can buy players who have been coached well tactically in the past and also naturally have tactical ability

Yes, but you still need a clear tactical plan and that's something I'm just not really seeing as of now. There's ample examples out there of great squads underperforming for a lack of tactical acumen by the manager. The results are slightly better than last season, but we're not playing decidedly different or better and have been riding our luck a bit. I think looking at the xG history of this season undermines this, as it's clearly not a distinct trait of Emery's style, as e.g. with Favre.

All in all that's why I'm sceptic of Unai's ability to consistently outdo our spent and overperform, especially in the longer term, as I'm not seeing any clear tactical blueprint or idea behind what he's doing and thus am sceptic he's able to tactically develop a team to the point where it overperforms.
 

Aevi

Hale End FC
Moderator
When a manager loses, fans are always telling him what he should have done differently.

Hindsight stuff is so easy when you know the result. Making those calls before a game is not quite the same.

Any manager who goes on a 22 unbeaten run in his first season is doing a lot right. He’s performing better than Klopp, Mourinho and Pep in their first seasons in charge.

We need to stop the negativity and support the guy.
I find this narrative very annoying. Posters like @Toby Andrl have been saying for a while that our performances haven't quite matched our results and underlying issues would eventually cause us problems. This loss wasn't out of the blue, it was symptomatic of our team's inability to start games on the front foot and create good, consistent goalscoring opportunities. While I understand injuries didn't help us, the same problems that we've seen over the past months were apparent and cost us the game. This loss was not a fluke, it was the unbeaten run that was. Props to Emery for achieving it, but we need to start seeing improvements in our actual performances soon or else we'll drop more points against smaller sides.
 

Camus

Active Member
Trusted ⭐
Completely agree with you. Think it's baffling at what kind of straws people are clutching to paint a picture of progress, when the matter of fact is that if you look at most on pitch performances, taking away the very benevolent lamination of that unbeaten run, the team has seldomly looked more stringent, more coherent or more distinct than last season. It's still not clear to me what Emery is trying to do here, what kind of team he wants to build. A possession side? A pressing oriented transition team? Counter attacking team? And this definitely cannot be argued away by the unbalanced squad argument.
A lot of (incoming) managers have that problem and get their ideas across and their new teams to play more distinct. Watch out for Hasenhuttl at Southampton; I don't think it'll take too long to see the first glimpses of his style. Sarri plays with Hazard as CF 'cause Morata and Giroud are ****e. Half of Hoffenheim's team is full of plumbers and he still gets them into the CL.

And as someone who is also a fan of another club and at that a lot more used to the common practice of often changing managers, I maintain the idea that you change managers cause you deem something wrong and you want to raise at least the performance short term and mid to long term the countable results e.g. league position.

Right now, I don't really see that massive upgrade in Emery in comparison to the last manager. I actually think the recent signings go a long way to explain the seeming upturn. Sokratis is better than what we had at CB before, Torreira adds unbelievably much to the team, with Aubameyang there's one of Europe's top goalscorer in the team.

Emery is definitely doing a job and a stable one at that, but up until now in my opinion it remains to be seen if he's the man to take the club further than the last manager could at the end, short or long term. And in the end, that's what counts, because that is the sole reason to change managers and thus ultimately the only way to justify someone being the manager. For clubs in "transition" there's a little added context of things going on at the club at more levels so managers should be treated with more patience, e.g. Emery and Kovac. But still, the club has to be very clear about what they deem a transition period - you don't want to end up missing out on targets and then explain it away by being in transition and using it as an apology for the manager longterm.

And before you have a go at me with "what did you expect, the league title?": No. Absolutely not. That's not what this is about. I mainly expected the new guy to have a go at the obvious tactical on pitch problems, give the team a coherent style again, a plan on how to regularly score without utmost reliance on individual moments or opposition errors, a structure to defend as a team and the introduction of a more coherent press. That's what I expected and if it took the whole season with shorter unbeaten runs, more losses and finishing 6th, that would have been okay with me, as long as I see that the coach has a clear idea of football and he gets the team to play that way. Better and more consistent performances and thus a better league position would then automatically arrive as a result of that. But right now I'm not really seeing this and that's why I'm wary and sceptical of Emery, cause by now he's not managed to address the most glaring problems this team already had under Wenger - and just stacking up on better players won't do the trick alone.

I'm trying not to be negative, and in a effort to maybe provide an alternative narrative to your point I looked up the stats. I thought maybe aesthetically it would be hard to see the difference but potentially stats might show a substantive difference. But honestly looking at keys stats in areas like defensive actions and ball retention is actually startling how we're either dead on the same as last season or see a negligible difference that can be account for or actually inferior. Stuff like tackles won, duels won, disposses, passes completed, interceptions, blocks, clearances. It's all either the same or worse.

It's starting to look like the difference is maybe just as simple as having a player like Torreira that can snuff out a few dangerous situations and Aubameyang and Lacazette being a little more prolific than they were also season.

I honestly do feel like at times I see a noticeable and significant improvement in the "intensity" of the team, notably in games like against Liverpool, Sp**s and in the 2nd half of a few more games. But I'm not sure how this is quantified in terms of output results wise or stats wise. If could be that our 1st half performances are so poor that they're skewing the overall stats. I'd love to see a stats break down of 1st half vs 2nd half.
 

CurryFlavoured

Established Member
Rubbish, people started to lose hope as soon as they saw line ups and formation.
We were missing all 3 centre backs who've been starting for us recently. We scored 2 goals away from home, it was ultimately our weak defence that lost us the game. Did you expect Emery to wave a magic wand to make Sol Campbell appear on the pitch for us?
 

Aussie_gunner123

Established Member

Country: Australia
Emery has said that he hopes that loss provides the players with a wake up call, I'll say this aswell, I hope it serves as a wake up call to Emery to start playing our best 11 when available from the start. We arent going to keep making comebacks with our best 11 (Laca, Özil, Ramsey) in the 2nd half every game. I doubt I'd see other clubs if they had Laca or Özil from the bench. Why not also with pretty much all our cb's out just play a straight back 4 for a change, Bellerin, Lit, Kos & Monreal.
 

Aussie_gunner123

Established Member

Country: Australia
We don't have much luck with injuries mind you, teams like Chelsea, Liverpool etc. All play just as many games as we do, Carabao, FA & the CL or ECL & never get nearly as many injuries as we do somehow. Is it time we started looking at our team medical staff?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom