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Unai Emery: Adios

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Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
I think we both have misread posts , because I do remember posters barely hiding their glee when we lost under Wenger . Others happy to finish outside the top 4 if it meant getting rid of Wenger , also remember one or two describing Santi's injury as a "blessing in disguise" there are some short memories on here but hey it is what it is .

Emery of course deserves time and backing nothing anyone on here says makes a difference either way :lol:. However I think people are fooling themselves if you think the new regime will give him 2 years .

Why not? Him and Raul seem to get on really well, there's rumours we're trying to bring in Monchi because of his good relationship with Emery. I convinced barring a complete a total collapse where we fall out of the top 6, that he'll be given the 2 years and we'll review things then. The only other scenario I can see is if we back him seriously in the summer and we get off to a dreadful start next season maybe then but it remains to be seen if he'll be backed significantly or not in order to improve our defence, midfield and bring in some top quality wide players in order to seriously start building a proper team. Otherwise I think there wouldn't be much reason for not giving him the 2 years. I don't really think we're the type of club that will be sacking managers when we can just let them go when the contract is up unless we really need to.
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
Yes this did happen but his overall point still stands, we mocked Wenger and wanted him out yet adored our stability in comparison to Chelsea's managerial structure for example. When a manager got sacked, we would laugh at the state of their club knowing that we aren't as trigger happy (Man UTD another example), but at the same time wanted our manager gone to try out the aforementioned approach.

What to take of all this? We are a weird bunch.
It's not even a case of wanting to try the Chelsea method. The ideal was one we learned. We wanted another manager to lead us into another long and successful era. It was the same at Man Utd when Fergie retired, hence the now incredibly cringy and ill-advised 'To Be Continued' banner, because that was all they knew, and that was the ideal outlook. And they were right to want that.
 

El Granit-Coq

Established Member
Why does your name pop into my head regarding the 'blessing in disguise' comment. Please correct me and say it wasn't you.:lol:
Hundred percent not me, atleast I hope not. I've been cautious with @Taylor Gang Gunners exposing people since I joined here (old username fell victim to the login bug).

Il only get burnt if Mustafi ever gets good.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
Why not? Him and Raul seem to get on really well, there's rumours we're trying to bring in Monchi because of his good relationship with Emery. I convinced barring a complete a total collapse where we fall out of the top 6, that he'll be given the 2 years and we'll review things then. The only other scenario I can see is if we back him seriously in the summer and we get off to a dreadful start next season maybe then but it remains to be seen if he'll be backed significantly or not in order to improve our defence, midfield and bring in some top quality wide players in order to seriously start building a proper team. Otherwise I think there wouldn't be much reason for not giving him the 2 years. I don't really think we're the type of club that will be sacking managers when we can just let them go when the contract is up unless we really need to.

Everyone get's on well till their livelihoods are on the line then it's dog eat dog. If he is deemed to have done well by their criteria then I am sure he will be given more than 2 years. I don't know what their criteria is but I do know they can't afford two years out in the Wilderness with the amount of teams now relentlessly spending in the league.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
I think we both have misread posts , because I do remember posters barely hiding their glee when we lost under Wenger . Others happy to finish outside the top 4 if it meant getting rid of Wenger , also remember one or two describing Santi's injury as a "blessing in disguise" there are some short memories on here but hey it is what it is .

Emery of course deserves time and backing nothing anyone on here says makes a difference either way :lol:. However I think people are fooling themselves if you think the new regime will give him 2 years .
Less than 2 years would be crazy.

If they want to win a Grand Prix they need to give Emery a F1 car not a Tesla Roadster.
 

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
Everyone get's on well till their livelihoods are on the line then it's dog eat dog. If he is deemed to have done well by their criteria then I am sure he will be given more than 2 years. I don't know what their criteria is but I do know they can't afford two years out in the Wilderness with the amount of teams now relentlessly spending in the league.

We'll be sacking a lot of managers then until we start relentlessly spending as well because our squad is nowhere near ready to be back regularly finishing top 4 regardless of who's in charge.

Emery will be given this season with or without qualifying for the CL and then any more time after the 2 years if we manage to qualify next season. I honestly don't think he'll be sacked before that unless we just end up like United this season before Solskjaer came in and got them back up challenging for a top 4 spot.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
We'll be sacking a lot of managers then until we start relentlessly spending as well because our squad is nowhere near ready to be back regularly finishing top 4 regardless of who's in charge.

Emery will be given this season with or without qualifying for the CL and then any more time after the 2 years if we manage to qualify next season. I honestly don't think he'll be sacked before that unless we just end up like United this season before Solskjaer came in and got them back up challenging for a top 4 spot.


If we qualify top 4 end of next season he will be given all the time in the World . I do think the next 6 months will be crucial for him. The real test for a manager is how he handles adversity .
 

krackpot

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
I thing there are warning signs about Emery, in fact I think there are warning signs about the whole so called modern set-up we have. But I will give Emery two years... I barely follow football anymore so it doesn't affect me that much if we lose games or won't compete.
true.

Seems like the hierarchy has decided that we will not e competing for the league title anymore, and Emery's plan is to keep us around 4/5th.
 

isop

Active Member
Looking at manager critically is not the same as wanting him sacked or needing to change a manager every 6 months. No one is immune to criticism, however long they've been in the job.

A number of critics on this forum, me included have actually listed positives, such as the improved spiritedness, resilience, some degree of flexibility and the hard work that is being instilled in this team compared to what we'd seen previously, but are very concerned about a number of other things. And it is genuine concern, because we are Arsenal fans, not weirdos looking for attention/wanting to big ourselves up for mere prestige/recognition.

I'm one of Emery's critics from a tactical viewpoint, and he should rightly be criticised imo for what I'm seeing on the pitch, things that have a longer term impact, things that imo can't be explained away through injuries, quality of squad, individual errors, transfers, money, things that have to do with a manager's overall philosophy, style of play and tactics, things that have been seen in his previous teams as others have pointed out as well. I am sceptical of the longer term outcomes, but I've always said some measure of time needs to pass to see how it plays out.
 

Ceballinhos

Cheating on Santi
If we qualify top 4 end of next season he will be given all the time in the World . I do think the next 6 months will be crucial for him. The real test for a manager is how he handles adversity .

We won't spend money to buy players.
I don't think our club will pay money to sack Emery and his staff.

Unless it goes very very wrong ofc but imo he will have at least his 2 years to prove himself.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
LA Liga 2015-16 season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_La_Liga
The top 4 conceded 35 goals or less. Celta 59 goals, Bilbao, 45 and Sevilla 50

2014-15 season
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_La_Liga
This season reads, 21, 38, 29, 32, Emery's Sevilla 45

Defence has never been Emery's strength. The man said himself he would rather win 5-4 than 1-0. People just got caught up in the hype and the "pragmatic manager" PR that the club put out about him.
Emery’s win rate at Sevilla was 52%. For a team spending 5th that’s very good. At PSG it was 76%.

Ferguson has a win rate of 59% for United and Wenger 58% for Arsenal. Wenger’s rate was exceptional for a team spending 5th or less between 2004 to 2018. And over such a long period of time.

So if Emery is poor at defending as you suggest, he must be a very good attacking manager.
 

squallman

Still Pining for Wenger
Emery’s win rate at Sevilla was 52%. For a team spending 5th that’s very good. At PSG it was 76%.

Ferguson has a win rate of 59% for United and Wenger 58% for Arsenal. Wenger’s rate was exceptional for a team spending 5th or less between 2004 to 2018. And over such a long period of time.

So if Emery is poor at defending as you suggest, he must be a very good attacking manager.

As I suggest?

The numbers don't lie.

Also one does not equal the other. His Sevilla team hovered around 4th/5th/6th in terms of goals scored, obviously lagging far behind Barcelona or Real Madrid but there were seasons where Atletico Madrid outscored Sevilla. Would you call Diego Simeone a good attacking manager?

Far as winning percentages go. Wenger and Ferguson were in charge of their teams for 20+ years. Its disingenuous to compare their win percentage to Emery's at PSG and Sevilla. I wonder what his win percentage would be if he stayed at Sevilla for years. You're also ignoring the fact that PSG dominate Ligue 1 (a weaker league) and will continue to do so regardless of the manager, win percentage is an anomaly there.

Context matters.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
As I suggest?

The numbers don't lie.

Also one does not equal the other. His Sevilla team hovered around 4th/5th/6th in terms of goals scored, obviously lagging far behind Barcelona or Real Madrid but there were seasons where Atletico Madrid outscored Sevilla. Would you call Diego Simeone a good attacking manager?

Far as winning percentages go. Wenger and Ferguson were in charge of their teams for 20+ years. Its disingenuous to compare their win percentage to Emery's at PSG and Sevilla. I wonder what his win percentage would be if he stayed at Sevilla for years. You're also ignoring the fact that PSG dominate Ligue 1 (a weaker league) and will continue to do so regardless of the manager, win percentage is an anomaly there.

Context matters.
‘Context matters’! Exactly right. Your posts are on the up bro.

To answer your points. Simeone is a very good manager, but more Mourinho than Pep or Wenger. He also has the advantage of having the third richest team in Spain.

Going back to your context, I thing Emery’s 52% with Sevilla is very much on a par with the 76% at PSG because of the reasons you give.

Apart from win rate let’s look at his positions in the league. With Sevilla 5th, 5th, 7th . . . very much in line with a team spending 5th. And at PSG, spending 1st he came 2nd and 1st . . again in the right ball park. So nothing alarming about those positions.

This is a manager who knows his stuff and you’re in safe hands with and might even win a cup or two.

But here’s the point, anybody expecting him to outplay all of the 4 richer teams and win the league don’t understand the odds. He might, but it would be a long shot. And he would need Sven to find him some cheap defenders who play like VVD.

We might as well stay with him for a while than get on the usual merry go round of looking for the holy grail, that doesn’t exist. It’s all about context.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
Have to say I agree with Trax. As a result I've lost all interest in this sport. Never spending money on it again that is for sure.
You only win the big stuff if your club spends and our club never spends.. We'll grab an FA cup here or there but the league is out of our reach and no manager will getus there.

Would love to see us land a Pep/Klopp manager just so all the fanboys can see that without the money it means VERY little.
 

krackpot

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Have to say I agree with Trax. As a result I've lost all interest in this sport. Never spending money on it again that is for sure.
You only win the big stuff if your club spends and our club never spends.. We'll grab an FA cup here or there but the league is out of our reach and no manager will getus there.

Would love to see us land a Pep/Klopp manager just so all the fanboys can see that without the money it means VERY little.
It's not even about spending. We could spend 100M tomorrow, and it would barely bring us on par with $ity/Utd/Chelski.

With a good summer, we can come comfortably 3rd. And then we might argue if Emery is worth his salt.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
It's not even about spending. We could spend 100M tomorrow, and it would barely bring us on par with $ity/Utd/Chelski.

With a good summer, we can come comfortably 3rd. And then we might argue if Emery is worth his salt.
For every 100M we spend, those three are buying squad players.
We just can't compete.
 
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