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Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy 🏆
Trusted ⭐
We truly f**ked up. I know there many diractor of footballs out there but you can't find better than overmars Monchi. I think we'll appoint Morrow he's at least know the club and was key for the success of young teams.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
We truly f**ked up. I know there many diractor of footballs out there but you can't find better than overmars Monchi. I think we'll appoint Morrow he's at least know the club and was key for the success of young teams.

Luis Campos, Max Eberl, Michael Emenalo, Jonas Boldt

Maybe someone out of the second row like Christophe Toni from Lyon, Christopher Vivell from RB Salzburg in tandem with Morrow. Wouldn't want Morrow on his own.
 

Gooner416

Master of Stonks
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
The optics make this look grim, however I don’t think Overmars was a good fit for our project.

I am still disappointed regarding Monchi but as @Toby Andrl has noted there are several options, if we promote Morrow, I’ll be absolutely furious after the Sven saga.

So far the TD search has been absolute **** up from the club, I hope they prove me wrong.
 

field442

Hates Journalists Named James
Trusted ⭐
Overmars probably wasn’t even a serious candidate, just an easy story for the papers. The only concrete info we have is Edu was approached and declined as did Monchi. Who we go for now I have no clue.
 

Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy 🏆
Trusted ⭐
Luis Campos, Max Eberl, Michael Emenalo, Jonas Boldt

Maybe someone out of the second row like Christophe Toni from Lyon, Christopher Vivell from RB Salzburg in tandem with Morrow. Wouldn't want Morrow on his own.
I read very good stuff about Luis Campos
 

OnlyOne

‘Donkeys don’t have a peak, they remain useless’
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
It's just a bit irritating now because we have a massive summer coming up, and we don't know who will be over seeing it all.
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
Don't really think Arsenal is a top academy, either.



Just what I said. 3 top players and then a lot of solid/average top flight guys like Capel - because let's not overrate that guy.



And out of those 400 they made 3 to 5 good players and then average guys they sold off or let go to other clubs. Hm. It's good for them and they surely know how to produce guys that end up in the upper tiers, but at the same time their success rate in top players/rated internationals is a bit thin.

The whole thing seems so similar to Monchi's strategy of spreading the money and seeing what sticks when buying for the first team.

I get you're a fan, but I think in terms of his academy work you are overrating him a bit. It's cool they're producing 50 youngsters each year to fill the ranks of the likes of Getafe, Leganes and Eibar and it helps them survive as a club, but that's not exactly stellar, either.

E.g. Benfica and Porto are the two biggest academies in Portugal and they churn out massive amounts of average guys who then fill the ranks of other Portuguese upper tier teams, but at the same time they have developed more than 3 pretty damn good players as well.

I think it's important to understand the perspective of academy development. CIES conducted a study between 2009 and 2015 of players at 460 clubs in 31 leagues across Europe. Arsenal's academy developed a total of 20 players who were playing at any of the clubs in the Top 5 leagues in October 2015. Doesn't sound like much, does it? But the fact is that this ranked 11th among all the clubs in the Big-5 leagues -- tied with Monaco and ahead of Bayern. Arsenal had developed 6 players who were playing at Arsenal and 14 who were playing at some other Big-5 club after being developed at Arsenal. The vast majority of players developed at any academy don't become household names. Most end up going to the 26 leagues studied that aren't the PL. Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1 or Serie A or to leagues that are below the top level leagues in their countries.

And clubs in the Big-5 leagues aren't, in general, particularly good at it in comparison to clubs in smaller leagues. Barcelona is head and shoulders above everyone else in the major European leagues. At the time of the study, they had developed 44 players who were playing in Big-5 leagues and 62 who were playing somewhere in the 31 leagues studied. Partizan Belgrade had developed 78 players in the 31 top leagues, Ajax 75 with Sporting and Dinamo Zagreb right behind Barcelona at 53. .

It is, of course, easy to understand this because clubs in the Big-5 leagues tend to buy the best players from all over the world. You simply can't compete in one of the Big-5 leagues just by churning out academy products as you can in Holland or Portugal or Belgium. You have to use the academy to supplement your squad along with the players you buy. If you're a club such as Arsenal or Sevilla with European ambitions, you naturally will lean more heavily on purchasing players developed elsewhere because you can't finish consistently in the upper echelon of the league without it.

Thus, I don't think an academy can be judged solely on how many players have achieved world class status. There are only a limited number of world class players and they come from all over.

As for my allegedly being a "fan" of Monchi, I'm not particularly. But I am familiar with his work and have read a lot about him and his role in creating Sevilla's scouting network and building up their academy from practically nothing to one that ranks among the best in Spain of clubs not named Barcelona or Real Madrid. At this point, I'm not even sure why it's relevant or why we're even discussing it because he isn't coming here.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
It's gonna be Steve Morrow.

And honestly, I don't really care all that much. He might turn out to be the right man.
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
Luis Campos, Max Eberl, Michael Emenalo, Jonas Boldt

Maybe someone out of the second row like Christophe Toni from Lyon, Christopher Vivell from RB Salzburg in tandem with Morrow. Wouldn't want Morrow on his own.

The problem with these are that Arsenal apparently wants someone who either has a history with Emery or who is familiar with Arsenal. That narrows the field quite a bit. Maybe they can go back to Edu (who checks both boxes) and make him an offer he can't refuse.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
I think it's important to understand the perspective of academy development. CIES conducted a study between 2009 and 2015 of players at 460 clubs in 31 leagues across Europe. Arsenal's academy developed a total of 20 players who were playing at any of the clubs in the Top 5 leagues in October 2015. Doesn't sound like much, does it? But the fact is that this ranked 11th among all the clubs in the Big-5 leagues -- tied with Monaco and ahead of Bayern. Arsenal had developed 6 players who were playing at Arsenal and 14 who were playing at some other Big-5 club after being developed at Arsenal. The vast majority of players developed at any academy don't become household names. Most end up going to the 26 leagues studied that aren't the PL. Bundesliga, La Liga, Ligue 1 or Serie A or to leagues that are below the top level leagues in their countries.

And clubs in the Big-5 leagues aren't, in general, particularly good at it in comparison to clubs in smaller leagues. Barcelona is head and shoulders above everyone else in the major European leagues. At the time of the study, they had developed 44 players who were playing in Big-5 leagues and 62 who were playing somewhere in the 31 leagues studied. Partizan Belgrade had developed 78 players in the 31 top leagues, Ajax 75 with Sporting and Dinamo Zagreb right behind Barcelona at 53. .

It is, of course, easy to understand this because clubs in the Big-5 leagues tend to buy the best players from all over the world. You simply can't compete in one of the Big-5 leagues just by churning out academy products as you can in Holland or Portugal or Belgium. You have to use the academy to supplement your squad along with the players you buy. If you're a club such as Arsenal or Sevilla with European ambitions, you naturally will lean more heavily on purchasing players developed elsewhere because you can't finish consistently in the upper echelon of the league without it.

Thus, I don't think an academy can be judged solely on how many players have achieved world class status. There are only a limited number of world class players and they come from all over.
Which fits into my ideal here - the club uses the academy to supplement the squad rather than buying fodder like Elneny. Some of those guys can certainly be first teamers too, such is the strength of the current generation coming through - it's no guarantee and neither will be the generation following it. But I feel it's an important part of the future of the club and we should be looking to use it more. Both as players for the first team and as sellable assets. Not to say we should purchase nobody, but anyone we bring in should be "top, top quality" to quote Wenger.
 

Garrincha

Wilf Zaha Aficionado
Trusted ⭐
Its great Morrow is doing a good job... give him a nice new big contract & let him keep doing his job.

This promoting everyone up one because with Ivan or Sven left is kind of insane. We are a massive company! Can you imagine the CEO of CocaCola exiting & them acting like this?

Not filling Ivans role is unprecedented round the football world.
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
Which fits into my ideal here - the club uses the academy to supplement the squad rather than buying fodder like Elneny. Some of those guys can certainly be first teamers too, such is the strength of the current generation coming through - it's no guarantee and neither will be the generation following it. But I feel it's an important part of the future of the club and we should be looking to use it more. Both as players for the first team and as sellable assets. Not to say we should purchase nobody, but anyone we bring in should be "top, top quality" to quote Wenger.

Exactly. Arsenal has a good group of youngsters right now. A couple of them might become stars. Others will be squad players. Most will end up being sold off. But if you can get to where you have 8 to 10 players in your squad you've developed yourself, you can focus your funds on those top, top quality players. That's what Barcelona and Real Madrid do.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
Its great Morrow is doing a good job... give him a nice new big contract & let him keep doing his job.

This promoting everyone up one because with Ivan or Sven left is kind of insane. We are a massive company! Can you imagine the CEO of CocaCola exiting & them acting like this?

Not filling Ivans role is unprecedented round the football world.
I assume Raul takes up Ivan's mantle?
 
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