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Technical Director Search

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neimad

neimad

Well-Known Member
American_Gooner said:
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I find it hard to have faith in their scope for optimism to be honest. It seems like the suits don't have the capability to get our house in order.

Hard to know if we did low ball Monchi with the salary but if he was such a coup would we not make it attractive for him. There's always other clubs looking for these types.

Is it very stupid of me to want to see how Wenger would get on? He's been gone for awhile. He's probably sick of Deins yacht by now. Obviously knows the club well. I know it's just crazy talk but I'd be a lot more enthused about that than a Steve Morrow to be honest.
 
field442

field442

Hates Journalists Named James
Trusted ⭐
American_Gooner said:
£40m if the club fails to qualify for the CL, which goes along with what Ornstein said on Arsecast.
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Yeah and £100m if we do. The difference between having Champions League and not isn't £60m. They're numbers plucked out of thin air. As an example, were one of us or Chelsea to win the Europa League and the Premier League gets five teams in the CL next season the difference between the Europa League and Champions League is minimal in terms of TV money (because the champions league TV pot gets split 5 ways instead of 4).
 
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Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
neimad said:
I find it hard to have faith in their scope for optimism to be honest. It seems like the suits don't have the capability to get our house in order.

Hard to know if we did low ball Monchi with the salary but if he was such a coup would we not make it attractive for him. There's always other clubs looking for these types.

Is it very stupid of me to want to see how Wenger would get on? He's been gone for awhile. He's probably sick of Deins yacht by now. Obviously knows the club well. I know it's just crazy talk but I'd be a lot more enthused about that than a Steve Morrow to be honest.
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I seriously doubt that money had anything to do with Monchi choosing to return to his home rather than join Arsenal. But in any case, Monchi is behind us, as are Mislintat and now Overmars (although according to Olley he may not have been a serious candidate anyway).

The interesting thing about the idea of bringing Wenger back as a technical director (something I doubt he would do anyway) is that people have been *****ing and complaining for years about his transfer dealings, accusing him of being a cheapskate, making fun of some of his signings that didn't set the world on fire, howling about his loyalty to players they want to get rid of and the wages he paid to players, saying the game has passed him by and all sorts of things. Presumably these people would not be happy to see him return in a role where he was in charge of scouting and recruiting as well as implementing a particular style of play. Or would they?
 
Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
James Benge on what Arsenal is looking for in a technical director now that Monchi is not in line for the job. He touches on why Arsenal may have had doubts about Overmars anyway, as well as Steve Morrow and Francis Cagigao as possible internal candidates.

 
scytheavatar

scytheavatar

Established Member
neimad said:
Is it very stupid of me to want to see how Wenger would get on? He's been gone for awhile. He's probably sick of Deins yacht by now. Obviously knows the club well. I know it's just crazy talk but I'd be a lot more enthused about that than a Steve Morrow to be honest.
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If Sven Mislintat was kicked out of the club because he couldn't work with Raul and Emery what are the chances Wenger will last longer?
 
Toby

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Slartibartfast said:
James Benge on what Arsenal is looking for in a technical director now that Monchi is not in line for the job. He touches on why Arsenal may have had doubts about Overmars anyway, as well as Steve Morrow and Francis Cagigao as possible internal candidates.

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Reads like an excuse for a rather incapeable management or like the plan always was Monchi or bust. And what kind of reasoning is the Emery or Arsenal relationship - it just shortens the list and seems small minded. There's not too many people out there doing this job with the connections: Edu, Monchi, Overmars, and the guys Emery worked with at his other spanish clubs and at Spartak and - god beware - Antero Henrique. Can't think of any ex-Arsenal players working as DoFs right now besides Overmars.

I get the idea of having someone e.g Emery has worked with or who knows the club. Hoffenheim have opted for a similar solution in appointing one of Nagelsmann's ex-assistants as his successor. But the difference is at Hoffenheim they had the same DoF since 2013, who's lead their Youth Department before that for three years under Rangnick, and they have been working under the same corporate identity and philosophy since Ralf's arrival2006, even after he left. So from top to bottom they know what they want exactly and act after it. Arsenal right now doesn't look like this and it's definitely down to Gazidis jumping ship and having left people who couldn't stand each other to fight for the leftovers. Basically, I wouldn't recommend choosing a DoF or Technical Director or whatever you want to call it on the basis of if he has a past working relationship with the current manager, as it is far more likely the DoF/TechDir will outlast the coach. That's for example why it's always good to look at the manager choices of DoFs, and not just a list of their "best" transfers.

If it's one of the internal guys I'd rather have Morrow as with the youth setup and the talent coming through right now there's actually something to look at and evaluate him and it indeed does look good. Speaking of Hoffenheim and Rosen, that guy lead TSG's youth department before becoming DoF and has been doing a fine job, Stuttgart has just now gone the same route with appointing Thomas Hitzlsperger DoF who lead the youth department before that. Max Eberl who is one of Germany's highest rated DoFs has the same CV: Three years leading the youth department, then DoF. And I think Michael Zorc of Dortmund was thrown right into cold water. So this model definitely works, but it is probably easier if the structure around this job is set and the new guy has some experienced people around him. Don't know if that's the case at Arsenal.

In case of Cagigao it seems like this is a guy who fits the "glorified scout" label pretty good. He's been working as a scout since forever, never had an executive role and is unknown to most of the football world. Not even google finds him.

Writing this, I still suspect the powerful position of Sanllehi as not-rightout-CEO but himself some sort of Director of Football weakens the chances of Arsenal getting someone used to being the top dog - Monchi and Overmars might be used to working under a CEO or club president, but being the Technical Director to a DoF who's not the rightout CEO might be considered a step down by them.

In this light I could actually see myself living with the internal solution well, as I don't think the club will approach and/or land one of the other big names like Campos out there and for both, Morrow and Cagigao, it would be a step up. Morrow as Technical Director and Cagigao - if he's worth anything - as his sidekick squadplanner/chief scout/whatever. Then see where this goes. Thanks to Gazidis' exit the club has put the cart before the horse in some ways anyway, and the BuLi examples I listed above have shown it can work out.
 
Toby

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...rector-unai-emery-raul-sanllehi-a8830786.html

This article suggests Andoni Zubizaretta, Technical Director at Barca 2010 to 15, and Roberto Fernandez, his successor from 2015 to 18, were among early candidates and are now being reconsidered again after Edu, Monchi and (maybe) Overmars have declined.

Don't know what to make of this. The way it's written it smells a lot like speculation, but I wouldn't put it past Raul to approach one of his past Barca fellows after Edu and Monchi fell through.

I'd still rather have someone else or the internal solution than having the full on Raul Connection leading the club. It looks very uninspiring and seems to confirm stories/reports about Raul and his little black book of contacts. As a Stuttgart fan I have very bad experiences with people getting jobs at a club because they know someone, or worked together before, or having a history at the club - without actually looking at their abilites and CV.
 
YeahBee

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
neimad said:
I find it hard to have faith in their scope for optimism to be honest. It seems like the suits don't have the capability to get our house in order.

Hard to know if we did low ball Monchi with the salary but if he was such a coup would we not make it attractive for him. There's always other clubs looking for these types.

Is it very stupid of me to want to see how Wenger would get on? He's been gone for awhile. He's probably sick of Deins yacht by now. Obviously knows the club well. I know it's just crazy talk but I'd be a lot more enthused about that than a Steve Morrow to be honest.
Click to expand...

This is the same mentallity as battered wives going back to their husband...
 
Fallout

Fallout

Active Member
Toby Andrl said:
It looks very uninspiring and seems to confirm stories/reports about Raul and his little black book of contacts.
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Thanks for sharing, and I interpret this the same way.

I'm now beginning to believe that these ex-Barca directors have no clue how to operate in a real football environment. I think Messi's greatness has papered over a lot of their incompetence.

When I take a step back and look at the collective body of work -- the scandal with Santos over Neymar, the two-year transfer ban, a liquidity issue that prevented them from paying wages back in 2010, the allegations of doping, the decay of La Masia, the constant turnover of managers, the large number of flops in the transfer market -- I am not impressed in the slightest.
 
Toby

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Fallout said:
Thanks for sharing, and I interpret this the same way.

I'm now beginning to believe that these ex-Barca directors have no clue how to operate in a real football environment. I think Messi's greatness has papered over a lot of their incompetence.

When I take a step back and look at the collective body of work -- the scandal with Santos over Neymar, the two-year transfer ban, a liquidity issue that prevented them from paying wages back in 2010, the allegations of doping, the decay of La Masia, the constant turnover of managers, the large number of flops in the transfer market -- I am not impressed in the slightest.
Click to expand...

Yep. Messi and the Guardiola/Golden Generation have pampered over their shortcomings as a club massively. They're not completely bad at doing their job, but money and their standout players, Messi first and foremost, have digged them out of the dirt constantly. Their managerial choices past Tito have been abysmal, their transfers are 50/50 and compared to their spending you can only give them a bad mark for that, and if Messi isn't on fire they suck. Their academy doesn't produce anything since the last generation, too. Once Messi retires at some point they are back to the early/middle 2000s.

Guardiola also is kind of the epitome of that. Hailed as the greatest manager of modern times, he has time and again failed to deliver what was expected - only now that he can virtually spend as much as he wants until he gets it right, he's close to touching the CL again after having had that golden Barca gen at his disposal.

The Spanish league is also rigged to help Barca and Real, just like the BuLi massively favours Bayern. Take that away and the job they've done is not bad, but pretty standard. I seriously doubt Raul and his buddies have the kind of abilites Arsenal needs, because this is a wholly differenty environment and task than Barcelona. To get Arsenal back to the top you need top people in recruiting, analytics, scouting, operative business. Stick to the identity of the last 20 years, use that, work hard and efficient and creative, and come up in the slipstream of the other big players to challenge again. I seriously doubt slipping through your dirty old notebook with your greasy fingers calling mates for help will do the job. This club needs professionals now, not people who could just as well be the fat corrupt major of some spanish small town trying to get a shopping centre built nobody needs.
 
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