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Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

Do you want Özil sold this summer?


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Taylor Gang Gunners

Say Yeh or You're Making The List
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Wonder if there will be a resurgence in number 10's at some stage? These things tend to go in cycles.

Yeah, there certainly will be a resurgence. Like you said, football is an everlasting cycle. 4-4-2 was once deemed redundant, now many a team play it. 3 at the back was one of the most uncommon formations, now loads of teams use that system.

It’s the same with positions. Out and out strikers (numbers 9’s) were seen as a thing of the past, but when you take a look around there’s a bunch of young poachers up and coming. Luka Jovic, Alexander Isak, Nicolo Zaniolo etc. These guys are pure killers in front of goal.

There’s always room for a number 10 in your team. I don’t think we’ll sell Özil but I’d like to keep him. I wanna see;

Auba
X Özil x

As an attack. (X’s being new wide players. Genuine wide players with quality.)
 
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Flying Okapis

Most Well-Known Member
I keep making the mistake of coming back into this thread :lol:

I think club and Özil just need to part ways, its clearly not working for multiple reasons, I no longer care to even discuss the reasons, it just isn't going to work.

I would hope the club are working on a way to end this relationship with Özil, its bad for everyone involved at the moment and far too much time and money is being wasted on a situation that is just never going to work or improve.

Its not good for the fan base either.

There just seems to be no positive reasons for Özil to be at Arsenal any longer.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
Nah, imo. Football has evolved on that front. It once made sense, it doesn't any more. Football's equivalent of the bus conductor. It will be laughed at one day.

That's not true at all. Plenty of teams still deploy a number 10 through the 4231 formation, France at the world cup had Greizzmann positioned behind Giroud. Lots of teams are preferring b2b all round midfielders currently but the number 10 position isn't obsolete.
 

FluffyDoozi

Active Member
That's not true at all. Plenty of teams still deploy a number 10 through the 4231 formation, France at the world cup had Greizzmann positioned behind Giroud. Lots of teams are preferring b2b all round midfielders currently but the number 10 position isn't obsolete.
Nah, it really is obsolete. The players may play there but they aren't really number 10s. The current top classic 10s are all available this summer; Özil, Rodriguez, Isco even Dybala which is insane.

Not gonna lie, I'd be tempted to bring Dybala even if it meant not replacing Mustafi and Iwobi. Such a beautiful player, atleast he has actual end product not quantified as "chances created".

Back to Özil, I think going to Madrid that early was bad for his career. They made him an effective assisting machine but didn't make him a more complete player. I bet that if Wenger had his way with him earlier in his youth he'd be a much better player. Prime Fabregas level who is a bit less talented.
 

El Granit-Coq

Established Member
Two striker system is dead, Auba kept getting shifted out wide or Laca benched. It doesn’t work in modern time and Aubameyang pretty much did it all alone this year and we haven’t been saved from anything.
Raaaah I've been saying this for time that there really isn't a place for a 2 striker formation anymore, if anything, most teams play with 3 strikers and try and interchange as the game goes on.
 

FluffyDoozi

Active Member
Nah, it really is obsolete. The players may play there but they aren't really number 10s. The current top classic 10s are all available this summer; Özil, Rodriguez, Isco even Dybala which is insane.

Not gonna lie, I'd be tempted to bring Dybala even if it meant not replacing Mustafi and Iwobi. Such a beautiful player, atleast he has actual end product not quantified as "chances created".

Back to Özil, I think going to Madrid that early was bad for his career. They made him an effective assisting machine but didn't make him a more complete player. I bet that if Wenger had his way with him earlier in his youth he'd be a much better player. Prime Fabregas level who is a bit less talented.
****, I may have just insinuated that daddy Wengz was a peado.
 

blaze_of_glory

Moderator
Moderator

Country: Canada
Two striker system is dead, Auba kept getting shifted out wide or Laca benched. It doesn’t work in modern time and Aubameyang pretty much did it all alone this year and we haven’t been saved from anything.
We played them both up front ahead of Özil a bunch of times this season, especially after the winter period. Laca often dropped a bit deeper (part of the reason he led the team in assists, he occupied the space Özil would have been in last year with Özil shifting wide to try to create overloads on the left). Auba did play wide early in the year but in the second half they both frequently played centrally together, though this did change from game to game. Playing them together up top is what has got us to the EL final though.

I know you dislike Lacazette, but trying to insinuate Auba "pretty much did it alone this year" is silly. Auba often struggled to have a much impact when he did play alone up front, and the two of them were at their best playing together, even when Auba did move wide.

And as @Taylor Gang Gunners said, not uncommon to see teams playing with two strikers again these days.
 

DasBootist

Well-Known Member
The Özil - Lacazette - Aubameyang trident worked very well against Napoli in the second leg, but I agree with those saying the number 10 and 2 forward tactics are extinct in the game.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Even ignoring his decline, Özil doesn’t walk into any of the top sides in the world for the same reason that he’s not a vital player for any rebuild here: top sides don't play with a '10' anymore. It's an extinct position in modern football which relies much more on the collective than any single creative force.

To say Mesut's a dying breed would be an understatement. Players who were the hottest properties in football a couple of years ago - the likes of Coutinho, Isco, Rodriguez etc - will all be joining him on the transfer list this summer. The only creative midfielders who aren't going extinct are the ones who have managed to adapt to play a deeper (and more intense) game: De Bruyne / the Silvas at City and Eriksen at Sp**s being the key examples. And those players are the exception rather than the rule. Liverpool just picked up 97 points and are in the CL final with Jordan Henderson as their primary midfield creator ffs.
Henderson’s a pretty good player tbf. Never understood the amount of stick he gets. :lol:
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
One thing that will definitely never die is short memories.
I took a bit of a break from AM for most of the season and returned towards the end.

This thread really surprises me. I did notice Özil had dropped off a bit but the general sentiment here has stunned me tbh. Feel like I’m in a dreamworld created by Jury’s subconscious mind while he recovers from a Wenger induced stroke or something.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Two striker system is dead, Auba kept getting shifted out wide or Laca benched. It doesn’t work in modern time and Aubameyang pretty much did it all alone this year and we haven’t been saved from anything.
City were destroying teams with Jesus and Aguero up top as recently as early last season I think.

Mendy got injured, Sane came in to provide the width and then they continued destroying the league with 433. Pep has rarely used it since, probably a case of it ain’t broke don’t fix it.
 

BobP

Memri Fan
Back to Özil, I think going to Madrid that early was bad for his career. They made him an effective assisting machine but didn't make him a more complete player. I bet that if Wenger had his way with him earlier in his youth he'd be a much better player. Prime Fabregas level who is a bit less talented.

You're right.

If you watch clips of him playing for Werder Bremen, or for Germany at the 2010 WC, he looks a completely different player. Much more assertive and at the centre of things.

Became too specialized under Mourinho.
 

razörist

Soft With The Ladies, Hard With The Mes

Country: Morocco
Interesting discussion. If I take Ajax as an example, I know, maybe not the most popular subject right now. However they almost made it to the CL final, playing with 4 players that used to be #10's, started as #10's or are still #10's by heart. None of them play the traditional #10 role as we know it.

1. You have Ziyech, who starts from the right wing, and comes inside, scores goals, asssists, creates and works hard defensively.

2. There is Tadic, who plays as a striker to bring others into the game or from the left wing.

3. Frenkie de Jong who played as a #10 his whole life but gradually moved back a few positions untill ending up a playmaking CDM, even able to play centreback.

4. And then there's Donny van de Beek who is the one starting from the traditional #10 position but his best traits are his workrate, pressing, positioning and goal scoring. Not playmaking.

On the one hand you can say Ajax were seconds away from the final playing with 4 #10's. On the other hand all of them adapted to a different way of playing and found succes doing so. Can Mesut do that? Maybe, but not as much as these guys did.

You can do two things to maximize Özil's utility. You can sell him and play a different way. Or you can build a team around him, with wingers, a midfielder that can break the lines and get the ball into the final third, straight through the heart of the pitch. Our only way of building up is through our wing backs, that's not football as we used to play it. If this is how we continue, it's better to sell him because the game will continue to pass him by. I don't believe he can't be of value for us though. Just not like this.
 
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The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Sell him. The game has moved and he can't keep up. There are too many cons to this player.

Pros:

-Easy on the eye and make the game look beautiful
- Supremely skilful and difficult to dispossess when facing the goal.
- Tends to perform well at home.
- Can see a pass and put in a good delivery.
- Can finish when power is not required.

Cons:

- Useless in the air. Literally useless. Doesn't even jump.
- Useless in duels. Hes a wimp.
- Very poor at protecting the ball back to goal.
- Useless away from home.
- weak immune system.
- Al though he sees a pass, he pads his stats with final third entry passes and doesn't actually attempt the killer ball as much as he could.
- Slows the play down far too much. Messi does exactly the same thing. The difference is that when Messi trades 3 1 yard passes in a row to the same player, he then beats 3 players on the dribble and makes something happen.
- He doesn't score enough goals. He doesn't shoot enough and he lacks power. He isn't going to score from the edge or outside the box on a regular basis.
- His wages.
- His age.

I like Özil, but its time to move on. The same with Miki, Mustafi and Xhaka. We could sign a bunch of unknown and unproven players this summer, I will not mind one bit if we get rid of those four.
 

Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
I like Özil, but its time to move on. The same with Miki, Mustafi and Xhaka. We could sign a bunch of unknown and unproven players this summer, I will not mind one bit if we get rid of those four.
With a 40M kitty and you want to bin half of our team. I too would want to see the back of these players but we are going to need a decent size squad if we are to progress.
We have Iwobi and Jenkinson who should be upgraded long before these 4.
We've lost Ramsey and Cech.
We simply do not have the financial clout to make these sacrifices yet.
 
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