Mesut Özil: 2019/20 Performances

[RUS arsenal]

Mustafi won a World Cup. Terry and Ferdinand are nothing compared to Mustafi.

I just stated a fact without trying to claim anything about the 2 players in question, I even added a caveat to my statement; however, you stated a fact and then went on to state something nonsensical not to mention you forgot to add the caveat that Mustafi was not an integral part of the German squad, not even the starter in fact.

Ironically enough, Özil was an integral part of Germany's World Cup winning squad while Cesc was a substitute player in the Spanish World Cup winning team. However, that fact alone doesn't really prove anything. Ultimately for me, neither could carry a team on their back to a trophy and needed a support cast to be successful.

 

[Big Poppa]

On a technical level, Cesc was the best player we ever bad. Ever.

Nah that was Bergkamp.

 

[Big Poppa]

I just stated a fact without trying to claim anything about the 2 players in question, I even added a caveat to my statement; however, you stated a fact and then went on to state something nonsensical not to mention you forgot to add the caveat that Mustafi was not an integral part of the German squad, not even the starter in fact.

Ironically enough, Özil was an integral part of Germany's World Cup winning squad while Cesc was a substitute player in the Spanish World Cup winning team. However, that fact alone doesn't really prove anything. Ultimately for me, neither could carry a team on their back to a trophy and needed a support cast to be successful.

Bit of a reach. Cesc may have been a substitute but so was David Silva and Santi Cazorla. He still made an impact. The two in their place were the greatest of their generation. Özil’s Germany was nowhere near as good as that Spanish team. Their level was absurd.

 

[fc honka]

2010 Spain was one of the dullest world cup winners ever with their 1-0 wins. What comes to attack play, 2014 Germany was worlds ahead. In 2010 Spain had great defensive play all over the field, thats why they won.
Some people are really reaching in this thread.

 

[RUS arsenal]

Bit of a reach. Cesc may have been a substitute but so was David Silva and Santi Cazorla. He still made an impact. The two in their place were the greatest of their generation. Özil’s Germany was nowhere near as good as that Spanish team. Their level was absurd.

Again, what is a bit of a reach? The fact that Özil was a core part of that German team or the fact that Cesc was a sub for his, even if somewhat impactful with his lone assist in the final? As I said in that post, it is impossible to judge just based on that.

 

[Big Poppa]

Because some people here underrate Fabregas and overrate Özil.

There should be no conversation based on their respective impacts at this club.

 

[Sydney-Gooner]

2010 Spain was one of the dullest world cup winners ever with their 1-0 wins. What comes to attack play, 2014 Germany was worlds ahead. In 2010 Spain had great defensive play all over the field, thats why they won.
Some people are really reaching in this thread.

Both were boring teams tbh.

 

[Football Manager]

@fc honka @Sydney-Gooner
Spin played the most attractive football.
Their opponents were parking the bus, making Spain harder to break down their defence, so they are harder to score. That doesn’t mean they play unattractive football.

Just look at how they create space in the midfield, their clever movement on and of the ball, the control of tempo in the midfield, the amazing level of teamwork, the beautiful one two/one touch through passes that cut through the lines, individual dribbling skills and world class ball control, the beauty and complexity of their tactics to work the ball into the box, how they create overload in certain areas to outnumber their opponent, how they use passes to humiliate their opponent.......The most satisfying thing to see in football is a killer through pass, that beautifully cut through the defence, it’s just f**king beautiful!!!

 

[Big Poppa]

Again, what is a bit of a reach? The fact that Özil was a core part of that German team or the fact that Cesc was a sub for his, even if somewhat impactful with his lone assist in the final? As I said in that post, it is impossible to judge just based on that.

For what it's worth I hate using tournaments and international football in general to support any kind of debates about individual players.

The point I was making is Cesc competing for starts with Xavi, Iniesta, Cazorla, Silva and Xabi Alonso while Özil competing with Gotze, Draxler and Podolski is kind of important context as to why the former was a sub.. that's what I meant by it being a reach.

If we're talking impact - that sole assist he made as a sub in the final was the same number of assists (+1 goal) that Özil managed in 7 games for Germany as a "core part" of their team in Brazil.

Their roles are fundamentally different so this is all kind of moot. It's really about being the core part of Arsenal's team I'm focused on.

 

[Big Poppa]

Spin played the most attractive football.
Their opponents were parking the bus, making Spain harder to break down their defence, so they are harder to score. That doesn’t mean they play unattractive football.

Just look at how they create space in the midfield, their clever movement on and of the ball, the control of tempo in the midfield, the amazing level of teamwork, the beautiful one two/one touch through passes that cut through the lines, individual dribbling skills and world class ball control, the beauty and complexity of their tactics to work the ball into the box, how they create overload in certain areas to outnumber their opponent, how they use passes to humiliate their opponent.......The most satisfying thing to see in football is a killer through pass, that beautifully cut through the defence, it’s just f**king beautiful!!!

Hmmm not sure about that. The tournament in South Africa was one of the most dull world cups I can remember, and Spain relied on passing/possession to suffocate opponents until they found an opening for a precision through ball.

It was admirable and brilliant but I definitely didn't find watching them passing teams to death entertaining. Especially when they started playing without wingers and strikers. It was like Barca teams without a Messi or Ronaldinho.

Totally personal preference but the great Dutch and Brazilian teams of the past that used a combination of individual flair/skill with technical sophistication were for me the most entertaining.

 

[Football Manager]

Hmmm not sure about that. The tournament in South Africa was one of the most dull world cups I can remember, and Spain relied on possession to suffocate opponents until they found an opening for a precision through ball.

It was admirable and brilliant but I definitely didn't watching them passing teams to death entertaining. Especially when they started playing without wingers and strikers. It was like Barca teams without a Messi or Ronaldinho.

Totally personal preference but the great Dutch and Brazilian teams of the past that used a combination of individual flair/skill with technical sophistication were for me the most entertaining.

I find possession teamwork football most entertaining. Netherland and Brazil with individual skills and flair were very entertaining teams too. It’s entertaining, and it’s like watching art, even if they lost or didn’t score.

England played ugly defensive tactics, no individual skills or flair, no teamwork, play disgusting long ball, unable to score from open play and rely on set pieces.... even if they scored 10 goals in a match. It’d still be a boring disgusting match.

 

[Big Poppa]

I find possession teamwork football most entertaining. Netherland and Brazil with individual skills and flair were very entertaining teams too.

It's definitely personal preference. Possession football and teamwork are the hardest to perfect and when it's your team they are the most satisfying.

 

[Trilly]

Ummm... because he asked to leave. The president tried to block it.

Why did he ask to leave the club he forced us to sell him to? Guess it's because he was doing so well.

Blinkers. Absolute blinkers from you lad.

Di Maria is a top player but his United stint was a flop. Feel like you're confusing the two because you believe this is something to do with Özil>Cesc.

Also nobody is underratign Cesc, don't put words in my mouth you ****ers.

 

[Sydney-Gooner]

That Brazil team of 2002 with the three Rs was the most entertaining WC winning team of the last 30 years. France weren't too bad 18 months ago though.

 

[Big Poppa]

That Brazil team of 2002 with the three Rs was the most entertaining WC winning team of the last 30 years. France weren't too bad 18 months ago though.

At the risk of derailing the thread. That France team could have been so much more than they were, and their all round play is pretty underwhelming.

Pogba, Matuidi, Sissoko, Kante midfield are functional and imposing but lack flair and creativity. Mbappe on the wings to accomodate Giroud up front and Dembele, Fekir and Lemar on the bench (Martial left out entirely) was all about Deschamps getting over the line, but I think there's so much more to come from them performance wise.

 

[GDeep™]

That Brazil team of 2002 with the three Rs was the most entertaining WC winning team of the last 30 years. France weren't too bad 18 months ago though.

Yeah. Think the Dutch missed out on that tournament? Probably the most exciting national team between ‘96 and ‘00.

 

[krengon]

This is true, Fabregas at Arsenal was a monster. Best central midfielder in Wenger's era. Outshone Viera.

Please tell me this is a joke.

 

[GDeep™]

Agree on France too, Deschampes has built a mechanical and functional team, and it’s effective, but you feel there is more flair and excitement in that team if a manager wanted to unlock it.

 

[Dennis_Bergkamp_10]

Yeah. Think the Dutch missed out on that tournament? Probably the most exciting national team between ‘96 and ‘00.

'98 Dutch team was the first I saw and it might be subjective but that has been the greatest team I've ever seen. Bergkamp, Overmars of course but also Van der Sar, Stam, De Boer, Davids, Seedorf, Kluivert..
I still remember Van Hooijdonk being pulled back in the penalty area vs Brazil in extra time. With VAR that would have been a penalty. Not that we'd score penalties in that time (anyone remember us vs Italy in 2000? )

Still feel that was our time. But France and Brazil were class too of course.

 

[Riou]

'98 Dutch team was the first I saw and it might be subjective but that has been the greatest team I've ever seen. Bergkamp, Overmars of course but also Van der Sar, Stam, De Boer, Davids, Seedorf, Kluivert..
I still remember Van Hooijdonk being pulled back in the penalty area vs Brazil in extra time. With VAR that would have been a penalty. Not that we'd score penalties in that time (anyone remember us vs Italy in 2000? )

Still feel that was our time. But France and Brazil were class too of course.

Think Overmars picked up an injury against Argentina in the quarters in 1998, which ruled him out of the rest of the tournament...who knows what would have happened if he would have stayed fit.