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Granit Xhaka: 2019/20 Performances

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Bloodbather

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Country: Turkey

That's a good shout as well, but for me it's Wilshere. He clearly had the potential to be the world's best midfielder. PFA Team of the Year and Arsenal Player of the Year at the age of 19. I remember him outplaying Xavi and Iniesta in that first leg against Barcelona at Emirates that year.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Country: England
Santi was great at resisting press, even given the circumstances. He had so much composure on the ball and faith in his ability.
Not all the time.

I remember him being destroyed by Sp**s and subbed at half time (Aka a team that actually knew how to press) because they could afford to leave Coq relatively unmarked.
 

Camus

Active Member
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Not all the time.

I remember him being destroyed by Sp**s and subbed at half time (Aka a team that actually knew how to press) because they could afford to leave Coq relatively unmarked.
Remember that as well and it was one of the things I'd always slate him. However a lot of the replies I got back was that he was concussed/dizzy. Not sure how true that is/was.
 

Marjorie

Thread Monopolizer
Remember that as well and it was one of the things I'd always slate him. However a lot of the replies I got back was that he was concussed/dizzy. Not sure how true that is/was.

He did seem massively out of sorts that game and it speaks a lot for Santi that it's the only example of a poor showing that stands out for him

As far as him being dizzy - Wenger put that down as the reason https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/Arsène-wenger-reveals-santi-cazorla-6794901
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Parading an exception as an example here

Guess the calendar year of 2015 where we collected more points than any other Premiership team was the exception, and that one game was the norm according to some people :lol:

Cazorla (and Coquelin) was excellent in midfield for us.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
Not all the time.

I remember him being destroyed by Sp**s and subbed at half time (Aka a team that actually knew how to press) because they could afford to leave Coq relatively unmarked.
Remember that as well and it was one of the things I'd always slate him. However a lot of the replies I got back was that he was concussed/dizzy. Not sure how true that is/was.
That's what Wenger told after the game. Even when watching the game, it was clear that something was off with him.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Parading an exception as an example here
I’m really not.

That was an extreme example but the archives don’t lie. Check the Coquelin and match day threads if you don’t believe me, teams being able to ignore Coq and focus on pressing Cazorla was holding back our midfield. Then Cazorla being injured completely destroyed it.

If somebody as technically gifted and agile as Cazorla can struggle from being the focus of a press then it’s very harsh to slam Xhaka for not being press resistant when he gets the same treatment.

Arteta being able to unlock the progressive passing version of Torreira has played a bit part in improving our midfield because it’s taken pressure off Xhaka. Suddenly he isn’t being caught in midfield as often because David Luiz and Torreira are chipping in as distributors.
 

Trilly

Hates A-M, Saka, Arteta and You
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Cazorla (and Coquelin) was excellent in midfield for us.
It was functional but not excellent because we had a passenger in midfield. Don’t revise history bruh.

The archives are there for everyone to see. Also I don’t appreciate your tone, I used that game as an example of good teams being able to press Cazorla effectively. Not every team is good, that’s how leagues work. :)
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
It was functional but not excellent because we had a passenger in midfield. Don’t revise history bruh.

The archives are there for everyone to see. Also I don’t appreciate your tone, I used that game as an example of good teams being able to press Cazorla effectively. Not every team is good, that’s how leagues work. :)

I loved those two players (especially Francis) so maybe I am a bit biased, I preferred watching us when those two played in the middle, as we did regularly smash teams with that midfield.

It had it's issues, most midfields do...but I loved Coq sheer ball winning ability, and we did collect a lot of points with it and I really loved watching us play back then, so it was doing something right...Santi's injury, Arsène shifting Coq around, Kos and Per declining, shame everything broke apart so quickly.

Had we bought a top striker in summer 2015, Caz-Coq would have been a league winning midfield too ;)
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
I’m really not.

That was an extreme example but the archives don’t lie. Check the Coquelin and match day threads if you don’t believe me, teams being able to ignore Coq and focus on pressing Cazorla was holding back our midfield. Then Cazorla being injured completely destroyed it.

If somebody as technically gifted and agile as Cazorla can struggle from being the focus of a press then it’s very harsh to slam Xhaka for not being press resistant when he gets the same treatment.

Arteta being able to unlock the progressive passing version of Torreira has played a bit part in improving our midfield because it’s taken pressure off Xhaka. Suddenly he isn’t being caught in midfield as often because David Luiz and Torreira are chipping in as distributors.

Been trying to tell people there is no such thing as a press resistant player to no avail:lol:. You basically need an entire team that is comfortable on the ball .

A big reason why we struggled that day against Sp**s was Ramsey who dropped into mid from the right was injured and we had Campbell who was probably worse than Coq with ball at feet .
People forget we beat Pep's Bayern 2-0 only a few weeks before that and they were a better pressing team than Sp**s .

Cazorla did have dizzy spells though to be fair but he wasn't press resistant by any means
 
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Eaststander74

Jury Lite II
Some are better at it than others, and some only have to see the 'press' of one solitary opposing player approaching before they go full spaz-tard and do something ridiculous even though they have options. Some have the tools to deal with it, with help, but some just don't have the tools or the composure to deal with it, which brings us back to Xhaka!
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
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Been trying to tell people there is no such thing as a press resistant player to no avail:lol:. You basically need an entire team that is comfortable on the ball .

A big reason why we struggled that day against Sp**s was Ramsey who dropped into mid from the right was injured and we had Campbell who was probably worse than Coq with ball at feet .
People forget we beat Pep's Bayern 2-0 only a few weeks before that and they were a better pressing team than Sp**s .

Cazorla did have dizzy spells though to be fair but he wasn't press resistant by any means
I don’t understand your point, so you’re saying some players can’t resist a press better than others? The only factor is your team?

No one is perfect and Santi wasn’t but he was very good, go watch Arsenal vs Leicester at their ground the season they won the league. Santi resisted the press in his own 18 yard box which led to the goal, if he had been Xhaka he would have been tackled/forced into clearing or going backwards.

But anyway there’s no point about talking about single fixtures like you with Sp**s and me with Leicester. Over the course of the 38 game season Santi was much more comfortable on the ball in tight and sticky situations and Xhaka is terrible at it, I don’t understand how that’s even a debate
 

Big Poppa

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Player:Saliba
That's a good shout as well, but for me it's Wilshere. He clearly had the potential to be the world's best midfielder. PFA Team of the Year and Arsenal Player of the Year at the age of 19. I remember him outplaying Xavi and Iniesta in that first leg against Barcelona at Emirates that year.

That Barca game was the best and worst thing to happen to Wilshere. The hype train over English youngsters with any kind of technical ability is stupid. Most peak before their mid 20s because they stop working on their weaknesses.
 

Bloodbather

Established Member

Country: Turkey
That Barca game was the best and worst thing to happen to Wilshere. The hype train over English youngsters with any kind of technical ability is stupid. Most peak before their mid 20s because they stop working on their weaknesses.

Wilshere is a special case though. The hype was justified. He wasn't just an English youngster with any kind of technical ability, his technical ability was truly impressive.

I think it'd be very harsh to put Wilshere in the group of youngsters who got caught up in their own hype and stopped working. He spent huge portions of his developmental years fighting injuries, being out for more than a year right after that great 10-11 campaign surely stunted his development. He never played another season with the same level of frequency.

Despite the stunted development, he was absolutely class for us whenever he was healthy until that broken fibula did him in entirely.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
I don’t understand your point, so you’re saying some players can’t resist a press better than others? The only factor is your team?

No one is perfect and Santi wasn’t but he was very good, go watch Arsenal vs Leicester at their ground the season they won the league. Santi resisted the press in his own 18 yard box which led to the goal, if he had been Xhaka he would have been tackled/forced into clearing or going backwards.

But anyway there’s no point about talking about single fixtures like you with Sp**s and me with Leicester. Over the course of the 38 game season Santi was much more comfortable on the ball in tight and sticky situations and Xhaka is terrible at it, I don’t understand how that’s even a debate

Firstly Santi is one of my favourite players , I don't have to watch Leicester v Arsenal as I recorded , Özil and Santi were fantastic that game . At no point am I comparing Xhaka to Santi either .
I actually agree with all you are saying :lol:.

My only point was in defence of Santi for the Sp**s game . No one is press resistant if the other options can't hold the ball . Of course some are better than others , Wilshere is probably the best I have seen at Arsenal but everyone is fallible to lose the ball under extreme pressure .
 

Big Poppa

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Player:Saliba
Wilshere is a special case though. The hype was justified. He wasn't just an English youngster with any kind of technical ability, his technical ability was truly impressive.

I think it'd be very harsh to put Wilshere in the group of youngsters who got caught up in their own hype and stopped working. He spent huge portions of his developmental years fighting injuries, being out for more than a year right after that great 10-11 campaign surely stunted his development. He never played another season with the same level of frequency.

Despite the stunted development, he was absolutely class for us whenever he was healthy until that broken fibula did him in entirely.

So did Serge but look at him now.

Gnabry was in the same batch of youngsters as him but go check his old thread vs the Wilshere thread. It's like we were so desperate to uncover the next Cesc that we made Wilshere a superstar before he'd actually proven anything meaningful.

I'm not saying Wilshere wasn't a phenomenal talent - he clearly was. But I can't help feeling we conflate the uniqueness of his talent with the magnitude of it. We desperately wanted him to succeed because he was one of us.

It's not his fault. It was too much too soon. We sold off experienced players so we could rely on unfulfilled talent-based promise from players who hadn't yet grown into adult bodies.

My biggest regret is the way Pep is handling Foden is exactly the way we should've handled Jack.
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
That's a good shout as well, but for me it's Wilshere. He clearly had the potential to be the world's best midfielder. PFA Team of the Year and Arsenal Player of the Year at the age of 19. I remember him outplaying Xavi and Iniesta in that first leg against Barcelona at Emirates that year.

You are probably a Messi>Ronaldo guy....
 
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