Theoretically if we had to play next season with the exact same squad, with no additions except Saliba, and all the other teams also had no new additions, how would we fare?
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Arteta and Edu Transfer Targets: Summer 2020
- Thread starter DanDare
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Rose has managed 19 more games for Gladbach than Arteta has for Arsenal. Lets not act like what he did for Salzburg is at all relevant given the strangle hold they have on the Austrian before, during and post his career there. He has one big scalp against Bayern since arriving at Gladbach and failed to make it out of the europa league group stages.
By all means expectations need to honed down in regard to Arteta but comparing him to Rose is basically comparing to himself given both have achieved **** all which is fine considering their just starting out.
Dutch D
Well-Known Member & FPL Champion 19/20
Poorly I would say. Not 10th, because Arteta will have us play a better style of football and hopefully Pepe will be more settled, but our spine is a mess. I don't like our options in midfield and CB at all. I'm thinking 6th or 7th.
Get Partey and a creative CM in and we'd be back in business in top4, even if the other contenders for top4 also make some signings.
My Feyenoord friend who I rate very highly when it comes to judging talented players wouldn't lose any sleep if Kokcu would be sold for €20m. That makes me hesitant.
I rate him as a decent talent myself. Has a good passing range and vision, and tenacity, but doesn't have the pace/agility/engine for the PL (yet). Also takes too much risk in my opinion. Have seen him forego the simple option in European games only to lose posession in a dangerous position (not saying risky passes are bad, but you have to be aware of the positioning of your squad in case it doesn't come off). Definitely not ready for Arsenal if he ever will be. Has another level in him though and could transcend the top-Eredivisie level.
Disagree to an extent. I think the players we are targeting won't change regardless of any outcomes post COVID 19. Its hard to work out exactly who we will target but the market is going to be more or less the same for everyone. Those owned by billionaires who invest their money won't be affected, those owned by billionaires who don't invest their money will be but even if we are in a ****ty position in the event Kronke is all talk, the clubs below us are in a even worse position. Case in point the French and Dutch teams are going to be left far worse off in the event all other leagues return and their stuck playing players without tv money coming in.
Deals will however have to be a lot more creative in order to make them happen. You won't be buying without selling.
TornadoTed
Established Member
I think we would do OK, certainly think we could push for top 4. We were in decent form from when Mikel was appointed until football was suspended. I say this because,
Tierney being fully fit
Pepe in his 2nd season
Soares, not a great right back but at least we have a backup right back unlike last season
Saka, Nelson, Nketiah and Martinelli all a year older and more experienced.
Midfield is my only worry, still looks weak and unbalanced.
Interestingly, a lot of people seem to think he's going to completely parrot Pep, but I honestly can see him using a bit more power and physicality going forward - no real basis either, just a hunch. Bringing in Steve Round kinda made me think about that aswell. I can see us becoming a much more physical team in terms of profile - the academy players coming through are quite athletic and the players we're mostly linked with of late (Partey comes to mind).
Definitely we shouldn't be hasty on what to expect and have patience, but let's not start sucking his **** quite yet.
SingmeasongSong
Right Sometimes
I did not say at all that Rose is inferior to Arteta, I actually even said here multiple times that I wanted him as a successor to Emery when we were sounding out candidates.
Arteta and Rose are simply very different to one another.
I personally rate Klopp still more than Guardiola, but that did not mean for Lewandowski to not be able to go up another level when he got coached by Guardiola afterwards.
They are just nothing alike and make you better in their own way.
So I do not take away anything from Rose, he's helped Plea grow further.
But it is fine that we don't share the same opinion of Arteta. Imo the effect Arteta has had on our team and the improvements we've seen in such a short and difficult time are absolutely incredible.
I won't get my objective analysis of what he's done so far get blurred by that EL knockout which was simply bad luck and a sign that not all the **** can be wiped away in an instance.
Think Arteta will be one of the best 5 managers within the next 10-20 years. Only time will tell who judged him right.
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SingmeasongSong
Right Sometimes
Think we'd close the gap, but hard to say to what extend - something like 5-3rd could be done imo.
Rose has been working as a coach since 2009. He's won multiple trophies at youth level, including the U19 CL, and with Salzburg. He's managed their A team for 114 games. Saying that's the same as Arteta's CV is wearing tinted glasses. Rose has actually shown what he does with teams, with Arteta it's other people saying what he could possibly do with teams. By now he's managed to get the team more structured and secure at he back, but that's about it. I haven't seen any obvious or special tweaks that point to a certain idea. But that's nothing against Arteta and I don't want to have a go at him, I think with him it has to be about managing expectations as he is a rookie. One with promise maybe, but still a rookie.
And saying what Rose has done at Salzburg, his EL and CL experience, and having clearly shown tactical acumen that got him universal praise, is void and the same as Arteta's 19 games as first team manager ever, would be like saying what Wenger did in France before Arsenal or any later big club manager did at smaller clubs is also void.
I get the excitement some have for Arteta, but let's not get overboard.
I haven't judged him yet in any way. I actually wrote a lengthy post in the Trusted forums about how he needs time and the space to make errors and grow without being judged instantly - by fans and management alike -, as that's just a facet that comes naturally with hiring a rookie. And that the club needs to walk a fine line between expectations of short term success (winning games) and long term project, and that it can be seriously hard to evaluate such situations as a club in terms of how much time do you give someone learning on the job when there's also the need for almost instant success. Hiring a rookie in a situation like Arsenal's (or e.g. VfB Stuttgart's, so I'm pretty familiar with rookie managers) is it's own beast in comparison to what e.g. Sp**s did with Mourinho.
I just think statements like this are way too optimistic and way too early at this moment.
sykesy69
Active Member
I agree, I think it's too early to judge how Arteta will turn out. Based on his Arsenal mag interview before leaving the club, he spoke about not trying to fit players into a specific formation/system, but rather fit the players into a system suitable to their strengths, which I think is what we've seen thus far.
When he gets the chance to sign the type of players he invisages suiting the systems he would like to play, is when he should be judged imo.
All the talk of him currently liking this player or that player in our current squad and not seeing such and such being sold is kind dead talk to me. He can't just come out and say he don't rate X, they don't have a place in his team. He's had a big enough job, getting the squads head back on straight after the Emery effect.
That being said, I hope he doesn't see X(haka) as the type of player he wants to keep around, show me the ruthless Arteta...
Mitch
Blonde Brigade Grand Wizard
Country: Iceland
Rafa Silva looks like a proper player! It would be first good signing from Raul for the club if I won't credit this signing 100% to Arteta.
Hmmm....Akanji has been hit and miss really. Got overtaken by Zagadou in Favre's backline of 3 and it was a big surprise he started that game against Schalke on the weekend. Not sure what to make of him.
Underhill
Active Member
4-6th probably. Our squad isnt that bad.
al-Ustaadh
👳♂️ Figuring out how to delete my account 👳♂️
Isn’t he comfortable on the ball with both feet?
Country: Nigeria
Player:Saliba
UpTheGunnerz
Vrei sa pleci dar una una iei
Player:Elneny
Rafa Silva? Raul has done it agains hasnt he! Arteta should be grateful for him bringing quality talent to the table! Splendid!
Mitch
Blonde Brigade Grand Wizard
Out of the CBs we have been linked to, going on pure reputation, and youtube clips as apart from Akanji and 2 matches for Mari and 1 match of Gabriel Magalhaes I can't recall seeing the others play. I would rate my preference as the following best options:
1. Gabriel Magalhaes - Looked brilliant against Chelsea. Ticks all the boxes, big, strong, mobile, pacey and very comfortable on the ball. Got into Le Equipe Ligue 1 team of season for this season.
2. Kumbulla - Getting a lot of hype for his peformances this season (in particular his peformance against Juventus) for a very good defensive side in Verona. Being strongly linked to Juventus.
3. Elvedi - 3 seasons being in a first team for a Bundesliga side, read nothing but positive stuff about him. Been linked to big clubs the past 2 seasons in Dortmund, Bayern and City.
4 Akanj - The most experienced at top level but inconsistent.
5. Mari - Brazilian league team of year and looked good for us in his two matches.
6. Disasi - is a right sided CB unlike all the above and looking at indivdual match highlights hes seems less comfortable on the ball compared to the others and a bit rash in his approach.
1. Gabriel Magalhaes - Looked brilliant against Chelsea. Ticks all the boxes, big, strong, mobile, pacey and very comfortable on the ball. Got into Le Equipe Ligue 1 team of season for this season.
2. Kumbulla - Getting a lot of hype for his peformances this season (in particular his peformance against Juventus) for a very good defensive side in Verona. Being strongly linked to Juventus.
3. Elvedi - 3 seasons being in a first team for a Bundesliga side, read nothing but positive stuff about him. Been linked to big clubs the past 2 seasons in Dortmund, Bayern and City.
4 Akanj - The most experienced at top level but inconsistent.
5. Mari - Brazilian league team of year and looked good for us in his two matches.
6. Disasi - is a right sided CB unlike all the above and looking at indivdual match highlights hes seems less comfortable on the ball compared to the others and a bit rash in his approach.
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