Granit Xhaka: 2019/20 Performances

[Trilly]

but you three tend to comment rather less when someone else's 6/10 performances get bigged up.

They seem to take it as a personal offence if Xhaka gets anything that even resembles a compliment. And even if somebody does think Xhaka is amazing so what? Why are you giving Xhaka such a hold over your life I can't understand it.

They then get so wound up about it that they don't realise that @BigPoppaPump is trolling them 90% of the time.

 

[RacingPhoton]

This reads quite logically and makes perfect sense BUT you're setting a bar that means all midfielders must have 100% pass completion.

I promise you that your favourite CM has also given away the ball in his own half. You can't go around picking the one time in a game a CM loses the ball. If his pass completion in the game was in the low 80s then you have a point.

I am not a big fan of taking single incident and brandishing someone either. At the same time, using pass completion % for comparisons also does not work.
My problem with Xhaka compared to someone like Torreira has been where they are losing possession. Xhaka tends to lose the ball usually in simple places in our own half while Torreira drives forward madly and loses the ball by making silly passes mostly after crossing the half line. That is the reason why Torreira is not up in the top on errors leading to goal while Xhaka is. The mistakes which Xhaka makes have a higher probability of ending up as a goal for opponents.
And pass completion % can be padded up by anyone by just giving the ball back to GK or defense.
Ideally, we need to compare mis-passes by area and pass completion percentage by direction(forward and backward/sideways). I don't think we have these statistics anywhere. Hence, we just have to go by what we see with our eyes.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

It's amazing how many people interpret saying we're better with Xhaka in our midfield as basically saying Xhaka is world class and we couldn't possibly improve upon him. The hate in response to any slight bit of praise given to Xhaka is so irrational. At this point it's so obvious that it goes beyond merely not rating him as a footballer.

 

[Trilly]

I am not a big fan of taking single incident and brandishing someone either. At the same time, using pass completion % for comparisons also does not work.
My problem with Xhaka compared to someone like Torreira has been where they are losing possession. Xhaka tends to lose the ball usually in simple places in our own half while Torreira drives forward madly and loses the ball by making silly passes mostly after crossing the half line. That is the reason why Torreira is not up in the top on errors leading to goal while Xhaka is. The mistakes which Xhaka makes have a higher probability of ending up as a goal for opponents.
And pass completion % can be padded up by anyone by just giving the ball back to GK or defense.
Ideally, we need to compare mis-passes by area and pass completion percentage by direction(forward and backward/sideways). I don't think we have these statistics anywhere. Hence, we just have to go by what we see with our eyes.

Fair enough but if Xhaks plays deeper and thus makes most of his passes from deeper, then he's going to lose the ball in deeper positions.

He has had periods where he's made mistakes at an alarming rate but that is not now. Let's remember that he has a defence behind him whose job it is to defend when we lose the ball.

Picking out an incident where Xhaka loses the ball, which eventually leads to a long throw which isn't cleared properly by Holding or Kola resulting in a goal and then saying "This is the issue with Xhaka" is so baseless I can't believe that so many people liked your post. Well I can, because so many people on here dislike the guy that bias plays a huge part in assessing his performances.

 

[Trilly]

At this point it's so obvious that it goes beyond merely not rating him as a footballer.

But for some reason they don't want to admit it? Confuses the hell outta me.

What do you have to lose by admitting you don't like a player? I don't like most of our squad, you don't see me overreacting in any of their threads. I'll just say "I still think he's crap" and get on with my day.

 

[Football Manager]

Fair enough but if Xhaks plays deeper and thus makes most of his passes from deeper, then he's going to lose the ball in deeper positions.

He has had periods where he's made mistakes at an alarming rate but that is not now. Let's remember that he has a defence behind him whose job it is to defend when we lose the ball.

Picking out an incident where Xhaka loses the ball, which eventually leads to a long throw which isn't cleared properly by Holding or Kola resulting in a goal and then saying "This is the issue with Xhaka" is so baseless I can't believe that so many people liked your post. Well I can, because so many people on here dislike the guy that bias plays a huge part in assessing his performances.

He makes the most “mistakes” when ramsey was his midfield partner. When ramsey was constantly staying in front of our strikers not running back, Xhaka has to defend against >3 attackers, which is supposed to be shared by him and Ramsey. That should be counted as a ramsey mistake. And it was happening again and again because of ramsey.

 

[Trilly]

He makes the most “mistakes” when ramsey was his midfield partner. When ramsey was constantly staying in front of our strikers not running back, Xhaka has to defend against >3 attackers, which is supposed to be shared by him and Ramsey. That should be counted as a ramsey mistake. And it was happening again and again because of ramsey.

This is true as well but I really don't want to get into the Ramsey topic because I'll have people telling me was a top class CM again and then I'll just get angry.

 

[RacingPhoton]

Fair enough but if Xhaks plays deeper and thus makes most of his passes from deeper, then he's going to lose the ball in deeper positions.

He has had periods where he's made mistakes at an alarming rate but that is not now. Let's remember that he has a defence behind him whose job it is to defend when we lose the ball.

Picking out an incident where Xhaka loses the ball, which eventually leads to a long throw which isn't cleared properly by Holding or Kola resulting in a goal and then saying "This is the issue with Xhaka" is so baseless I can't believe that so many people liked your post. Well I can, because so many people on here dislike the guy that bias plays a huge part in assessing his performances.

Deep lying midfielders do not lose the balls at the rate Xhaka does in their own half. Deep lying midfielders are supposed to be strong and confident in possession. Recently, his number of errors leading to goal has reduced. That is not because he stopped making errors. He still makes errors every match. Most of them have gone unpunished. That goal which I mentioned was not Xhaka's responsibility. But when you have a deep lying midfielder who loses the ball making silly mistakes at this rate, a goal is bound to happen at some point. His fans on here were talking about how he is a lot better player now. My argument was that he still makes the same mistakes and hasn't improved in anyway.

 

[Trilly]

Deep lying midfielders do not lose the balls at the rate Xhaka does in their own half. Deep lying midfielders are supposed to be strong and confident in possession. Recently, his number of errors leading to goal has reduced. That is not because he stopped making errors. He still makes errors every match. Most of them have gone unpunished. That goal which I mentioned was not Xhaka's responsibility. But when you have a deep lying midfielder who loses the ball making silly mistakes at this rate, a goal is bound to happen at some point. His fans on here were talking about how he is a lot better player now. My argument was that he still makes the same mistakes and hasn't improved in anyway.

Only way to solve this would be to come up with some stat that compares ball progression with pass completion and then weighs it against ball retention.

I think what people don't realise is that everybody's favourites like Fabinho, Rodri, Fernadinho etc would do better than Xhaka but would definitely not get the plaudits they currently do.

Fernandinho and Rodri play for one of the best teams in the world, they don't even have to progress the ball as much as Xhaka does and you've seen Man City play, they always seem to have like 500 options whenever they need to pass the ball.

Fabinho plays for a team who always partner him with high energy midfielders who run around like madmen to protect him in defence and give him an option in offence.

Xhaka's reputation could be very different if he played for one of the two teams above. There have been countless articles explaining how our system has never done him any favours. I think Arteta is doing the best job at that so far.

 

[lomekian]

The urge to flog him does indeed ignore the reality that he does fulfill a function for us,. Ahhh its a right old mess in the contextof competing for titles isnt it, which is what the fans were promised...?
Haha david Hillier, yeah the time schwartz was around was strange wasnt it? Much like now, but shows what came after can happen again if someone develops the right vision for the english game.

Exactly. Its why I get frustrated with the doom and gloom. When you've seen one great team dwindle and another be born from its embers, you know how quickly a few judicious decisions can change things.

 

[RacingPhoton]

Only way to solve this would be to come up with some stat that compares ball progression with pass completion and then weighs it against ball retention.

I think what people don't realise is that everybody's favourites like Fabinho, Rodri, Fernadinho etc would do better than Xhaka but would definitely not get the plaudits they currently do.

Fernandinho and Rodri play for one of the best teams in the world, they don't even have to progress the ball as much as Xhaka does and you've seen Man City play, they always seem to have like 500 options whenever they need to pass the ball.

Fabinho plays for a team who always partner him with high energy midfielders who run around like madmen to protect him in defence and give him an option in offence.

Xhaka's reputation could be very different if he played for one of the two teams above. There have been countless articles explaining how our system has never done him any favours. I think Arteta is doing the best job at that so far.

I think it is not about the system that we play. It is just that premier league doesn't suit his style well. Very recently even weaker teams have started to play high press especially when playing at home. Players like Fabinho, Fernandinho and Rodri can either move on the ball quickly or use their pace and physicality to push their way out of the press. I don't think Xhaka has the qualities to handle the press. He could do a lot better in other leagues where he has the time and space when playing from deep.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

Exactly. Its why I get frustrated with the doom and gloom. When you've seen one great team dwindle and another be born from its embers, you know how quickly a few judicious decisions can change things.

Enjoy your posts mate keep it up.
I dont like xhaka personally i'll admit it (especially since he told arsenal fans, ie us to "**** off" personally i think he is another in our squad with a bad attitude. Is he a useful player with some good attributes (see my name for the hope i had for him). Yes he does. Does he suit this league? Can he suit this league, no and im not sure he ever will, hes too slow immobile and error prone. I only make negative comments because i want the team to do well which i would suggest is the same as anyone else critiscising xhaka. Arsenal has risen from the doldrums before, see the coming of george graham AND wenger but some parts of the game evolve, other parts, specifically the physicality and speed of the english league do not. We need to play the terrain thats laid out before us in golf terms and the sooner some arsenal fans see this (instead of trying to make us playlike a mid table team in the italian/Spanish league as some would have us do) the sooner we can be successful again.

 

[lomekian]

Deep lying midfielders do not lose the balls at the rate Xhaka does in their own half. Deep lying midfielders are supposed to be strong and confident in possession.

You're missing the world 'ideally' at the start. In all honesty, there aren't that many within our budget that meet those standards. Xhaka is strong and confident in possession most of the time, but like most of our players has concentration issues, and his technical weaknesses are common knowledge so he is frequently pressed at pace onto his right foot. Its hard to evaluate how much of what happens afterwards is his fault given how often in his Arsenal careers he's had partners who don't give him an out pass inside on his weaker foot, hence him playing awkward 30 yard square passes that get picked off.

Some of the errors are totally his fault, some rather less so.

Under Emery's last few months he was hung out to dry in a way that made me angry. Not because I'm that keen on Xhaka, but simply the tactical set up was like a cavalry charge against Machine guns. It was almost an exercise in exposing all of Xhaka's flaws as much as possible.

That's one of the things that made me lose faith in Emery. Too many players put in positions / roles which actively undermined them.

 

[lomekian]

I think it is not about the system that we play. It is just that premier league doesn't suit his style well. Very recently even weaker teams have started to play high press especially when playing at home. Players like Fabinho, Fernandinho and Rodri can either move on the ball quickly or use their pace and physicality to push their way out of the press. I don't think Xhaka has the qualities to handle the press. He could do a lot better in other leagues where he has the time and space when playing from deep.

I think Rodri would die on his arse in this team. Better at some things than Xhaka for sure, but his role at City is much simpler.

I agree Xhaka would find life easier in Italy, but I also think in a different shape with more complementary personnel, he'd look a more effective player. Whether that shape is something Arteta wants to do is a different matter.

Because Xhaka has value to us at the moment, his short-medium future will be largely determined by what Arteta wants to do. At the moment Arteta is still preoccupied by improving the culture, testing players tactical flexibility and trying to stop the team being rubbish!

 

[lomekian]

Enjoy your posts mate keep it up.
I dont like xhaka personally i'll admit it (especially since he told arsenal fans, ie us to "**** off" personally i think he is another in our squad with a bad attitude. Is he a useful player with some good attributes (see my name for the hope i had for him). Yes he does. Does he suit this league? Can he suit this league, no and im not sure he ever will, hes too slow immobile and error prone. I only make negative comments because i want the team to do well which i would suggest is the same as anyone else critiscising xhaka. Arsenal has risen from the doldrums before, see the coming of george graham AND wenger but some parts of the game evolve, other parts, specifically the physicality and speed of the english league do not. We need to play the terrain thats laid out before us in golf terms and the sooner some arsenal fans see this (instead of trying to make us playlike a mid table team in the italian/Spanish league as some would have us do) the sooner we can be successful again.

I would imagine the vast majority of us share the same aspirations!

Part of the reason the Xhaka debate is circular is because of the broader circumstances. If we had a Man City budget he'd be moved on. Very few fans see him a key long term piece, but most fans now recognise that at the moment he's important.

Ultimately, Arteta is still in setting the rules and putting out the fires mode, so we don't know if Xhaka is compatible with the way he wants to build the team or not. If yes, we need to keep him until we can upgrade, and if not, we need to move him on next summer. I would say this summer, but I think there will be enough turnover as it is, and as one of the more senior and respected players there is an off pitch value we will need in the coming months.

 

[Oxeki]

I would imagine the vast majority of us share the same aspirations!

Part of the reason the Xhaka debate is circular is because of the broader circumstances. If we had a Man City budget he'd be moved on. Very few fans see him a key long term piece, but most fans now recognise that at the moment he's important.

Ultimately, Arteta is still in setting the rules and putting out the fires mode, so we don't know if Xhaka is compatible with the way he wants to build the team or not. If yes, we need to keep him until we can upgrade, and if not, we need to move him on next summer. I would say this summer, but I think there will be enough turnover as it is, and as one of the more senior and respected players there is an off pitch value we will need in the coming months.

I can get behind this

 

[Trilly]

I think it is not about the system that we play. It is just that premier league doesn't suit his style well. Very recently even weaker teams have started to play high press especially when playing at home. Players like Fabinho, Fernandinho and Rodri can either move on the ball quickly or use their pace and physicality to push their way out of the press. I don't think Xhaka has the qualities to handle the press. He could do a lot better in other leagues where he has the time and space when playing from deep.

I think agility and pace is something a DLP falls back on but they don't need it as Xabi Alonso, Kroos have shown. I do agree with you on his inability to release the ball quickly but I don't think its a huge problem, I think the setup is a bigger one.

For example I don't think someone like Rodri is particularly quicker or more agile than Xhaka. He just always has options around him, so can make a quick decision when faced with a press. A lot of the time he's already decided who he's passing to before he's even gotten the ball. If that's not the case and he is pressed, he can probably turn in three different directions and have a a blue shirt around him.

Xhaka on the other hand will be receiving a pass and have all his options marked before he's even controlled it. He then might turn left, see a marked option, turn right and see nobody then turn around a third time but by then the pressing forward has got him. Overly simplified but yeah.

 

[Football Manager]

I think agility and pace is something a DLP falls back on but they don't need it as Xabi Alonso, Kroos have shown. I do agree with you on his inability to release the ball quickly but I don't think its a huge problem, I think the setup is a bigger one.

For example I don't think someone like Rodri is particularly quicker or more agile than Xhaka. He just always has options around him, so can make a quick decision when faced with a press. A lot of the time he's already decided who he's passing to before he's even gotten the ball. If that's not the case and he is pressed, he can probably turn in three different directions and have a a blue shirt around him.

Xhaka on the other hand will be receiving a pass and have all his options marked before he's even controlled it. He then might turn left, see a marked option, turn right and see nobody then turn around a third time but by then the pressing forward has got him. Overly simplified but yeah.

Forgive them. At their level they can’t see tactics, systems, space and press. All they know is at a player level.

 

[Notorious Big]

I think agility and pace is something a DLP falls back on but they don't need it as Xabi Alonso, Kroos have shown. I do agree with you on his inability to release the ball quickly but I don't think its a huge problem, I think the setup is a bigger one.

For example I don't think someone like Rodri is particularly quicker or more agile than Xhaka. He just always has options around him, so can make a quick decision when faced with a press. A lot of the time he's already decided who he's passing to before he's even gotten the ball. If that's not the case and he is pressed, he can probably turn in three different directions and have a a blue shirt around him.

Xhaka on the other hand will be receiving a pass and have all his options marked before he's even controlled it. He then might turn left, see a marked option, turn right and see nobody then turn around a third time but by then the pressing forward has got him. Overly simplified but yeah.

You're good poster mate.

Forgot about your quality just like people forgot about Xhaka's quality at Arsenal :rofl:

 

[Trilly]

You're good poster mate.

Forgot about your quality just like people forgot about Xhaka's quality at Arsenal :rofl:

Yeah when I'm not arguing with people or hating our players/club I can offer up some half-decent opinions.