Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Furious]

Neither of those threads is particularly objective, the first one is just a clown, whilst the latter clearly tries to favour Arteta by manipulating the stats.

Though the 17 freaking shots against us on average per game with Emery always get me. Absolutely bonkers. :rofl:

 

[Garrincha]

Not too sure shots & pressing stats mean anything right now.

If we can just build some partnerships in key areas, make the team harder to beat & build confidence its going well.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Neither of those threads is particularly objective, the first one is just a clown, whilst the latter clearly tries to favour Arteta by manipulating the stats.

Agreed, they are both over the top and manipulative on their respective sides, though the question presented by the 'clown' is a valid one (what, exactly, is Arteta building, and does it correspond to what he's talked about).

Hell of a lot more interesting anyways Arsenal now than since we hired that joke Emery, at least there is a doubt or a discussion over whether we are building something or what kind of progress it is. With the Basque Mark Hughes you could only say the club is in the hands of an inept and wait for the day he would be sacked.

 

[Rex Stone]

Neither of those threads is particularly objective, the first one is just a clown, whilst the latter clearly tries to favour Arteta by manipulating the stats.

Though the 17 freaking shots against us on average per game with Emery always get me. Absolutely bonkers. :rofl:

Fun fact, Norwich have only faced 15 shots against per game this season.

Incredible stuff from Unai.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Though the 17 freaking shots against us on average per game with Emery always get me. Absolutely bonkers. :rofl:

That's not even starting back on square one. This is so far behind where Arteta had to start with this team.

Imagine being on his back now already. What kind of scumbag do you need to be? At least give the man a summer transfer window before people jump on his back.

What I know about stats for this season is that they are bad. But just by pure eye test in my honest opinion, we are improving from when we were playing under Emery.

 

[Trilly]

I'm the only person it seems that isn't on the hype train.

Everytime I'm about to jump on we turn in a result/performance that gives me pause.

 

[Macho]

I didn’t hate Unai myself (his treatment in this country was disgusting really) and equally I think Arteta has done a fantastic job so far given the circumstances.

No, I absolutely did not want Arteta as our manager but he’s here now so...*shrug*

Reserving hype is fair
Being positive is fair I guess
Slagging him off, thankfully not seen loads of this yet and hopefully it continues.

For what it’s worth, Emery and Arteta’s tactics do not look too dissimilar. You can even see them both eventually coming to the same conclusions after initially trying different things (Auba on the left, Özil taking a seat, Xhaka being a mainstay etc). However, I’m hearing time and time again from player interviews that Arteta is just the superior communicator.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

his treatment in this country was disgusting really

In what way? I can assure you in my country (Spain), with that kind of performance at a big, mediatic club, and having a comparable level of linguistic ability, his treatment would be much, much worse, haha. I've seen foreign players, especially South American, treated particularly badly in England by the press but I would not not include Unai there. Basically par for the course for a manager who performed as badly at his job as he did and in Spain he would've had it faaarrrrr worse.

 

[lomekian]

38% possession (yes, 20 minutes a man down, but it's certainly fair to say you can create and play more a man down than we did, it looked like we were 9v11 not 10) at home against Leicester. We all know the pitfalls of the possession stat but it reveals at least a little bit globally about our control (or lack thereof) and our intentions and tactical set-up.

It's fair to critique. Our results haven't improved that greatly nor have our underlying metrics (xG, shots on goal vs. shots conceded), and Arteta was picking up from a very, very low bar with Emery, make no mistake, he's a terrible manager. We've improved but there is still room for critique.

The squad is hugely flawed but it is not as bad as people make out. Not much in it between our squad and Leicester's and certainly good enough to be having more than 38% of the ball if the intentions are there. Ceballos and Xhaka are better passers and footballers than their Leicester counterparts in midfield today, and without Maddison, Pereira, and Chilwell we put out in reality a better team. At halftime Rodgers corrected his mistake of putting out Barnes and made it more even on paper, but still, it wasn't for that type of Leicester second half domination.

Yes Xhaka and Ceballos don't have great physical conditions to press and play a dominating style but that is the manager's job...no team played a more dominating style than Guardiola's Barça and the typical Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta is not a midfield full of athletes to say the least. Obviously it's apples and oranges in terms of quality but the point stands that if the intentions and the coaching/instructions were there, you can certainly play more positive football at this point into his management here. The fact is Arteta has gone to a back 5, and makes very conservative substitutions like Willock for the RW, and has a very conservative second half approach almost always (especially when leading), for a reason.

So yeah, his conservative, Cholista tactics in the second half are just that: his tactics. If he's just learning on the job or if he's got some ideas about being conservative in the short term to later evolve to a different style later on we don't know. But while Arteta is a bit of a unique case in that this is his first big managerial job it's also fair to be concerned by some of the signs...I'm not sure I can think of any example of a manager who exhibited tendencies quite different at a later point in his career from those he showed initially. I think a manager's tendencies or personality tends to stay pretty stable but let's hope that Arteta is a unique case there as he is otherwise in some respects.

Respectfully disagree. For me I think its foolish to draw long term conclusions about Arteta's tactical preferences based on current choices. Arteta, Emery and Wenger all ended up reverting to a back 5 with this squad. Wenger had never played a back 5 before (except for parts of his first season taking over from Rioch's back 5) and Emery had also never played a back 5 for any length of time.

He inherited a team with shot confidence, leaking goals like no tomorrow, and with an outside chance of chasing European football.

He's sorted out the leaking of goals, City away aside, he's managed to make Mustafi look like a credible top 6 centre half for the first time in 3 years, and our form an points return is 4th in the table I think (was 3rd before last night).

He's said multiple times that the team can't sustain 90 minutes of the football he wants to play (partly because injuries and disciplinary issues have massively reduced our options for rotation), and so are dropping back more than he wants because they are knackered.

In his earlier games he was playing a more progressive style but with fixtures every 3 days and chance to rotate, he's cutting his cloth to try to sustain momentum through results. The fact that Mesut is not an option at the mo for whatever reason and none of our CB can flourish in a back 4 is hamstringing his choices massively.

And even taking that into account, if Laca could just head the ball down for once (has he done that since Athletico first leg?), or had not wandered offside for Luiz's flick on, we would have probably won comfortably. If Eddie hadn't been sent off, we would have won uncomfortably!

The thing to remember is this squad has been ineffective under the last two coaches.

Ultimately we need to see what Arteta does next season, with a pre-season, some say in transfers and having established himself as the boss rather than a new guy with something to prove.

I doubt very much what we are seeing now is what Arteta would choose to do.

 

[Majora]

Genuinely surprised that he has people turning on him at this stage. Even as someone who wasn’t fully convinced on appointing him, this is his first proper management role with a team full of zero confidence underperforming players and he’s had no real chance yet to build his own squad and properly implement his own style with the right personnel.

Given this, I don’t think it’s fair to judge his preferred style of play now based on how we are currently playing in comparison to what we expect from him. He is working with what what he has and I’m sure that over time we will see these ideas develop and improve with new players and additional time spent in training. I can at least say that we certainly seem harder to beat and are more expressive than under Emery.

All I expected of Arteta this season was to get the team playing like a team again, lift their confidence and get some of the underperformers back on track. I think he’s doing just that while also continuing to develop some of the Young guns and we actually look to be building quite a solid core. I don’t think there’s a need to bin absolutely everyone and start again but it felt this way earlier in the year. The players are clearly on side (bar one) and while likely a lot of PR involved, there is an immense amount of praise for Arteta from all who have worked with him. I think the fans need to be behind him also, particularly if we hit a blip as this is going to be a long process but I think we have a good manager to help us rebuild.

Hopefully this won’t come back to bite me but right now I feel two things that I haven’t felt in a long time with Arsenal:

1. Actually invested in watching Arsenal play and seeing how they approach the transfer window after borderline numbness under Emery (I think this speaks volumes of Artetas impact)

2. For the first time in a long time, if you told me Arsenal will win the league in the next five years, I wouldn’t completely rule it out. (Not that I expect it)

You will always find stats to spin whichever narrative you’re going for but the improvement is there to see and for the time he’s had here, that is enough. Give him a full season next year and evaluate from there if he’s the right man to take the club back to a serious title contender in the long term.

 

[sdotzdot]

I'm the only person it seems that isn't on the hype train.

Everytime I'm about to jump on we turn in a result/performance that gives me pause.

its too early to say otherwise and anyone who hates/loves him is just purely based on bias, we have no evidence to back him one way or another. The football on the pitch hasn’t been good enough at all but I also understand and appreciate the fact he’s focusing on defending and team shape more than anything. Once this structure is consistent I expect to see more brave and attacking football otherwise I’ll have serious questions.

More importantly though, he’s starting to back up his words about the culture of the club. Only accepting players who are giving 100%. Özil, guendouzi, AMN earlier, calling out players and backing the ones who do show effort. I appreciate all of this as our issues are too deep rooted to just be focusing on what’s on the pitch. Club needs an overhaul and I’m impressed by his actions behind the scenes.

 

[nicky47]

Can't give Arteta enough credit. The task he's taken on is MASSIVE. And the way he's handled things, the things he's said, I love it. I love it all.

I don't expect us to spend crazy money, but I hope the club back Arteta, he deserves every bit of support!

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Respectfully disagree. For me I think its foolish to draw long term conclusions about Arteta's tactical preferences based on current choices. Arteta, Emery and Wenger all ended up reverting to a back 5 with this squad. Wenger had never played a back 5 before (except for parts of his first season taking over from Rioch's back 5) and Emery had also never played a back 5 for any length of time.

He inherited a team with shot confidence, leaking goals like no tomorrow, and with an outside chance of chasing European football.

He's sorted out the leaking of goals, City away aside, he's managed to make Mustafi look like a credible top 6 centre half for the first time in 3 years, and our form an points return is 4th in the table I think (was 3rd before last night).

He's said multiple times that the team can't sustain 90 minutes of the football he wants to play (partly because injuries and disciplinary issues have massively reduced our options for rotation), and so are dropping back more than he wants because they are knackered.

In his earlier games he was playing a more progressive style but with fixtures every 3 days and chance to rotate, he's cutting his cloth to try to sustain momentum through results. The fact that Mesut is not an option at the mo for whatever reason and none of our CB can flourish in a back 4 is hamstringing his choices massively.

And even taking that into account, if Laca could just head the ball down for once (has he done that since Athletico first leg?), or had not wandered offside for Luiz's flick on, we would have probably won comfortably. If Eddie hadn't been sent off, we would have won uncomfortably!

The thing to remember is this squad has been ineffective under the last two coaches.

Ultimately we need to see what Arteta does next season, with a pre-season, some say in transfers and having established himself as the boss rather than a new guy with something to prove.

I doubt very much what we are seeing now is what Arteta would choose to do.

I don't disagree with any of this (aside from perhaps a bit of the 'we would have' stuff--Eddie's sending off can be seen as a direct consequence of the pressure Leicester was putting us on, which in turn can be seen as a direct consequence of the team's second half set-up/performance), just think it's fair to point out some warning signs and worrying indications early on, and that it is fair to critique Arteta.

I do hope you are right about the last line and about all of this and am looking forward to next season to see what Arteta does with the team. I badly want him to succeed here, loved him as a player and person and love at least the things he is saying as a coach and the way the players seem to be responding to him, but in the end he's the manager and we have to be critical and judge him on his actions and results (not just in the strict sense but also performance-wise).

As I said before, either way it is a far more interesting experience being an Arsenal fan than under the incompetent of Emery.

 

[ChefMan21]

He really does need a good season or two to show what he's got in mind. If you have your own style, you need the players for it of course, but you also need a preseason to get things right without the pressure of the season occurring while you train.

 

[boonthegoon]

Still can't believe so many decisions going against us Maybe we feel we are the most affected because we watch ourselves more than other teams but I feel we definitely would have been in CL places for better refs. Vardy red in that first half would have changed the game completely.

 

[lomekian]

I don't disagree with any of this (aside from perhaps a bit of the 'we would have' stuff--Eddie's sending off can be seen as a direct consequence of the pressure Leicester was putting us on, which in turn can be seen as a direct consequence of the team's second half set-up/performance), just think it's fair to point out some warning signs and worrying indications early on, and that it is fair to critique Arteta.

I do hope you are right about the last line and about all of this and am looking forward to next season to see what Arteta does with the team. I badly want him to succeed here, loved him as a player and person and love at least the things he is saying as a coach and the way the players seem to be responding to him, but in the end he's the manager and we have to be critical and judge him on his actions and results (not just in the strict sense but also performance-wise).

As I said before, either way it is a far more interesting experience being an Arsenal fan than under the incompetent of Emery.

Emery had us interested for a bit, even if we could all tell results were exceeding performances. But the collapse and rotation decisions at the end of the season were big alarms. This season Emery lost the plot in a major way. Its the only time I've ever watched an Arsenal side, and couldn't even work out what the team was trying to do. Even the season George Graham got sacked there was a vague plan. The last 2 months under Emery were just a waste of everyone's time, and Arteta's still trying to repair the damage.

 

[lomekian]

Still can't believe so many decisions going against us Maybe we feel we are the most affected because we watch ourselves more than other teams but I feel we definitely would have been in CL places for better refs. Vardy red in that first half would have changed the game completely.

Ignoring since the restart, Arsenal were shown earlier in the season to be 8 or 9 points down due to incorrect VAR decisions.

 

[The_Playmaker]

It's up to Arteta to change the perception of the club. We are seen as the foreign English club as we had the first notable foreign manager and we put out an all foreign team. However the perception over the years went from being that to both foreign and soft. The cresswell tackle on Pepe is a perfect example of that. We need more strength and fight in our team. Not personalities who will simply shake the opponents hand after they foul us.

Arteta needs to call out the referring more frequently and highlight the fact that we are suffering from decisions. How does it make sense that we are the worst disciplined team when we make the least fouls? How many of our fouls are bad fouls? Our players can barely get there to make tackle.

 

[Penn_]

You can tell Arteta has us playing better than Emery simply due to the fact that poor ref decisions hurt a hell of a lot more again.

Before I was pretty much resigned to being **** either way.

 

[Trilly]

It's up to Arteta to change the perception of the club. We are seen as the foreign English club as we had the first notable foreign manager and we put out an all foreign team. However the perception over the years went from being that to both foreign and soft. The cresswell tackle on Pepe is a perfect example of that. We need more strength and fight in our team. Not personalities who will simply shake the opponents hand after they foul us.

Arteta needs to call out the referring more frequently and highlight the fact that we are suffering from decisions. How does it make sense that we are the worst disciplined team when we make the least fouls? How many of our fouls are bad fouls? Our players can barely get there to make tackle.

I would love him to call our VAR respectfully. The referees association do listen to these things and he could easily highlight certain things.

If he kicked off the next press conference talking about how Eddie was sent off but Tarkowski wasn't despite both being reviewed under VAR then people would realise we aren't just moaning about things.