Mesut Özil: 2019/20 Performances

[Trilly]

No one care about his stats. He can be invisible for 90 mins helping the team for nothing and then making an assist. That will count as a stats.

He is being criticised for not helping the team. You can have someone like Cazorla/fabregas in the team, even if they score no goals/make no assist. They will stilll be a better player because they makes their team plays better. He helps the team build up and progress the ball up the pitch.

Özil’s presence is a tactical liability and hurt the team in the build up phase, which cuts out chances bringing the ball to the final third.

Not arguing with you my friend. I'm retired.

I just had to come out of retirement and quickly smash Jury for calling Özil's best season a freak one.

 

[Jury]

Not arguing with you my friend. I'm retired.

I just had to come out of retirement and quickly smash Jury for calling Özil's best season a freak one.

I call it a freak one because people go on so much about it when the truth is there is such a fine margin between 19 and, say, 4, that it’s not worth crowing about. You’ve got to look at general play and contribution first.

No normal Arsenal fan will even compare the two players presence wise on the pitch. One is a lion and the other is a ****ing mouse. Alexis proved that beyond any doubt in the little time that he was here.

Keep clinging onto those numbers. The vast majority were right and ARE right. Don’t get mad at me, get mad at Özil for mugging you off. You won’t be watching him riding off into the sunset as much as drowning at this club and sinking to the bottom, just as many predicted. Blame him for that.

 

[Football Manager]

How are they “creating play” in the build up phase if they’re not staying deep?

Pass, then provide passing option, receive pass, then provide passing option....you don’t have to do this in deep position. You can do it anywhere on the pitch, especially when building up, actively gets involved to help your team moving up the pitch.

 

[krackpot]

Pass, then provide passing option, receive pass, then provide passing option....you don’t have to do this in deep position. You can do it anywhere on the pitch, especially when building up, actively gets involved to help your team moving up the pitch.

AFC doesn't play like this, though. So, please send these to Arteta

 

[Fewtch]

Pass, then provide passing option, receive pass, then provide passing option....you don’t have to do this in deep position. You can do it anywhere on the pitch, especially when building up, actively gets involved to help your team moving up the pitch.

So essentially what you’re saying is that Özil does not how to do pass and move in between the lines ? This is even stupid for being you.

There’s not a single player in our team who can do this to the required level apart from Özil, that’s why Arteta has dropped the system he was using before lockdown.

 

[lomekian]

So many on here with a poor understanding of both what Özil is (more accurately was) as a player, and frankly how football works.

Özil is not and has never been a 'play driver'. Apart from his very best spells at Arsenal when he went through a couple of patches of dragging the team through games, he's never been that guy, and was never supposed to be, despite our post Fabregas expectations.

Özil is an augmenter. One of the reasons he doesn't really fit with us now is because he is a player that is and has almost always been a player you need to carry to a certain extent, because his contribution to overall play isn't much more than providing continuity, inhabiting space and pulling opposition midfields into uncomfortable zones (which he barely does any more).

He's always been a guy that is extremely effective in dominant teams. He has obviously fantastic technique, and was fantastic at getting into 'between' spaces, and has an eye for passes few others see, especially against packed defenses. He used to be brilliant at unusually angled balls on counter attacks too, but that seems to have diminished, as has his ability to burst wide or beyond the front man to get into dangerous positions, which is why his value to us is so much lower.

His primarly role has always been as a creator of the unexpected to help teams who exert lots of control regardless of him break down opposition tactics.

The problems he have are multiple.

1) His athleticism is not what it was, neither is his confidence in taking responsibility nor his ability to provide a variety of threat by getting into dangerous positions inside the box as well as around it. Thus not only is he easier to control but also he creates less space for teammates.

2) This Arsenal team has not been consistently dominant in controlled progressive possession since Cazorla left. He also hasn't had a clear final 3rd understanding with any team-mate since Alexis starting sulking just before his transfer. It means he has had to be far more of a build up player than has ever been his skillset, and when you add in his diminished athleticism, he's not able to start and finish moves. Also the team has not been effective possession team for 3 years, for a variety of reasons, partly because our squad building has been imbalanced and partly because we've moved away from not quite good enough continuity players to more direct end product or individualistic players. Özil doesn't fit with the rest of the squad on the whole.

3) Football has moved on. With back 3's or 3 man central midfield's now the norm, and with athleticism, workrates and tactical intelligence having really stepped up a level in the last half decade, its much much harder to construct a team which can be sufficiently dominant on the ball and simultaneously mobile in order to both carry Özil and give him the options on the ball we need. He could probably still look stellar against teams that play expansive football without the technical ability to dominate, and there are certain teams (Chelsea / Leicester) who he seems to have the measure of key opponents, but the spaces he has relied upon to be effective are far less frequently available.

Essentially, he's not the player he was, he's on a team that no longer fits him, and top level football, particularly in England and Germany has evolved to a level where his positives are no longer effective enough to make up for his negatives. In a less competitive league, he will probably look like a genius, but in the EPL there's nowhere to hide, with 15 teams at least every year being very competitive opponents.

Its fine to say Özil is in Arsenal's past and despite his gifts we are right to move on from him, whist at the same time acknowledging that for his first contract for us, he was mostly very good. Anyone downplaying his achievements 15-17 is either blinkered with an agenda or simply doesn't understand the player. Which is understandable, because Özil is a particularly unusual player, one with very few direct comparatives even in the last 50 years, and also Arsenal managed to waste his best seasons due to flaws elsewhere.

In his two best years, had the rest of the team performed at a comparative level, or were it like an Invincibles squad, people would be wristing themselves blind. Sadly in 15-16 all the goals dried up, and the defence started its decline that undermined the 16-17 campaign.

While Özil may never have been a big contributor to overall play, its worth noting that his two best seasons were much more productive than the seasons from Bergkamp in 02 & 04 (not that he was as good a player, because he seldom offered the same leadership or variety)

 

[Football Manager]

So essentially what you’re saying is that Özil does not how to do pass and move in between the lines ? This is even stupid for being you.

There’s not a single player in our team who can do this to the required level apart from Özil, that’s why Arteta has dropped the system he was using before lockdown.

Yes, after 2 pages of discussion, you finally notice that we are criticising him for never contributing in the build up play, hurting our team chances to progress to the final third.

Unlike most number 10, he rarely helps the team in overall/general play, that hurts our team stats, as we would create less chances for the forward if we always failed to get the team arriving to the final third because of him not contributing.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

So many on here with a poor understanding of both what Özil is (more accurately was) as a player, and frankly how football works.

Özil is not and has never been a 'play driver'. Apart from his very best spells at Arsenal when he went through a couple of patches of dragging the team through games, he's never been that guy, and was never supposed to be, despite our post Fabregas expectations.

Özil is an augmenter. One of the reasons he doesn't really fit with us now is because he is a player that is and has almost always been a player you need to carry to a certain extent, because his contribution to overall play isn't much more than providing continuity, inhabiting space and pulling opposition midfields into uncomfortable zones (which he barely does any more).

He's always been a guy that is extremely effective in dominant teams. He has obviously fantastic technique, and was fantastic at getting into 'between' spaces, and has an eye for passes few others see, especially against packed defenses. He used to be brilliant at unusually angled balls on counter attacks too, but that seems to have diminished, as has his ability to burst wide or beyond the front man to get into dangerous positions, which is why his value to us is so much lower.

His primarly role has always been as a creator of the unexpected to help teams who exert lots of control regardless of him break down opposition tactics.

The problems he have are multiple.

1) His athleticism is not what it was, neither is his confidence in taking responsibility nor his ability to provide a variety of threat by getting into dangerous positions inside the box as well as around it. Thus not only is he easier to control but also he creates less space for teammates.

2) This Arsenal team has not been consistently dominant in controlled progressive possession since Cazorla left. He also hasn't had a clear final 3rd understanding with any team-mate since Alexis starting sulking just before his transfer. It means he has had to be far more of a build up player than has ever been his skillset, and when you add in his diminished athleticism, he's not able to start and finish moves. Also the team has not been effective possession team for 3 years, for a variety of reasons, partly because our squad building has been imbalanced and partly because we've moved away from not quite good enough continuity players to more direct end product or individualistic players. Özil doesn't fit with the rest of the squad on the whole.

3) Football has moved on. With back 3's or 3 man central midfield's now the norm, and with athleticism, workrates and tactical intelligence having really stepped up a level in the last half decade, its much much harder to construct a team which can be sufficiently dominant on the ball and simultaneously mobile in order to both carry Özil and give him the options on the ball we need. He could probably still look stellar against teams that play expansive football without the technical ability to dominate, and there are certain teams (Chelsea / Leicester) who he seems to have the measure of key opponents, but the spaces he has relied upon to be effective are far less frequently available.

Essentially, he's not the player he was, he's on a team that no longer fits him, and top level football, particularly in England and Germany has evolved to a level where his positives are no longer effective enough to make up for his negatives. In a less competitive league, he will probably look like a genius, but in the EPL there's nowhere to hide, with 15 teams at least every year being very competitive opponents.

Its fine to say Özil is in Arsenal's past and despite his gifts we are right to move on from him, whist at the same time acknowledging that for his first contract for us, he was mostly very good. Anyone downplaying his achievements 15-17 is either blinkered with an agenda or simply doesn't understand the player. Which is understandable, because Özil is a particularly unusual player, one with very few direct comparatives even in the last 50 years, and also Arsenal managed to waste his best seasons due to flaws elsewhere.

In his two best years, had the rest of the team performed at a comparative level, or were it like an Invincibles squad, people would be wristing themselves blind. Sadly in 15-16 all the goals dried up, and the defence started its decline that undermined the 16-17 campaign.

While Özil may never have been a big contributor to overall play, its worth noting that his two best seasons were much more productive than the seasons from Bergkamp in 02 & 04 (not that he was as good a player, because he seldom offered the same leadership or variety)

Not at all. He has never been a control or possession dominant team player. He is a counter attack player. That's why Germany shifted him to the wings in favor of players who can actually influence overall play. In the middle he actually influences the team to have lesser control. That's why no big team went for him and RM flourished again in the CL. When Özil was great in a WC or a Euro or at his best were all fast paced counter attack teams and most of his best moments are more often than not always a counter attack situation but his influence beyond that was always lacking. Its more that the likes of Benzema, Ronaldo, Podolski, Muller, Alexis and the midfielders who made him better or covered his short comings rather than him making them play better because even in his earlier days he wasn't physically able to cope with the intensity of play anywhere.

This is revisionist bullshit or you don't watch or understand football.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

People ***** on Cesc and I hate him as much as anyone but he literally ran the entire team by himself. In his prime he was undeniably the best midfielder in the world.

 

[Toby]

Not at all. He has never been a control or possession dominant team player. He is a counter attack player. That's why Germany shifted him to the wings in favor of players who can actually influence overall play. In the middle he actually influences the team to have lesser control. That's why no big team went for him and RM flourished again in the CL. When Özil was great in a WC or a Euro or at his best were all fast paced counter attack teams and most of his best moments are more often than not always a counter attack situation but his influence beyond that was always lacking. Its more that the likes of Benzema, Ronaldo, Podolski, Muller, Alexis and the midfielders who made him better or covered his short comings rather than him making them play better because even in his earlier days he wasn't physically able to cope with the intensity of play anywhere.

This is revisionist bullshit or you don't watch or understand football.

Not saying you're wrong per se, but that's a very simplified look at Özil's style of play and the teams he's been a part of. The only really streamlined counter attacking teams he's played for were Mourinho's Real and the 2010 German NT - by 2012 they were already reverting to a more mixed style in comparison to the 2010 fast paced counter machine.

Özil's never been useless per se in possession football, on the contrary with his intelligence and movement he's been integral to a lot of sides' ball circulation.

 

[Football Manager]

So many on here with a poor understanding of both what Özil is (more accurately was) as a player, and frankly how football works.

Özil is not and has never been a 'play driver'. Apart from his very best spells at Arsenal when he went through a couple of patches of dragging the team through games, he's never been that guy, and was never supposed to be, despite our post Fabregas expectations.

Özil is an augmenter. One of the reasons he doesn't really fit with us now is because he is a player that is and has almost always been a player you need to carry to a certain extent, because his contribution to overall play isn't much more than providing continuity, inhabiting space and pulling opposition midfields into uncomfortable zones (which he barely does any more).

He's always been a guy that is extremely effective in dominant teams. He has obviously fantastic technique, and was fantastic at getting into 'between' spaces, and has an eye for passes few others see, especially against packed defenses. He used to be brilliant at unusually angled balls on counter attacks too, but that seems to have diminished, as has his ability to burst wide or beyond the front man to get into dangerous positions, which is why his value to us is so much lower.

His primarly role has always been as a creator of the unexpected to help teams who exert lots of control regardless of him break down opposition tactics.

The problems he have are multiple.

1) His athleticism is not what it was, neither is his confidence in taking responsibility nor his ability to provide a variety of threat by getting into dangerous positions inside the box as well as around it. Thus not only is he easier to control but also he creates less space for teammates.

2) This Arsenal team has not been consistently dominant in controlled progressive possession since Cazorla left. He also hasn't had a clear final 3rd understanding with any team-mate since Alexis starting sulking just before his transfer. It means he has had to be far more of a build up player than has ever been his skillset, and when you add in his diminished athleticism, he's not able to start and finish moves. Also the team has not been effective possession team for 3 years, for a variety of reasons, partly because our squad building has been imbalanced and partly because we've moved away from not quite good enough continuity players to more direct end product or individualistic players. Özil doesn't fit with the rest of the squad on the whole.

3) Football has moved on. With back 3's or 3 man central midfield's now the norm, and with athleticism, workrates and tactical intelligence having really stepped up a level in the last half decade, its much much harder to construct a team which can be sufficiently dominant on the ball and simultaneously mobile in order to both carry Özil and give him the options on the ball we need. He could probably still look stellar against teams that play expansive football without the technical ability to dominate, and there are certain teams (Chelsea / Leicester) who he seems to have the measure of key opponents, but the spaces he has relied upon to be effective are far less frequently available.

Essentially, he's not the player he was, he's on a team that no longer fits him, and top level football, particularly in England and Germany has evolved to a level where his positives are no longer effective enough to make up for his negatives. In a less competitive league, he will probably look like a genius, but in the EPL there's nowhere to hide, with 15 teams at least every year being very competitive opponents.

Its fine to say Özil is in Arsenal's past and despite his gifts we are right to move on from him, whist at the same time acknowledging that for his first contract for us, he was mostly very good. Anyone downplaying his achievements 15-17 is either blinkered with an agenda or simply doesn't understand the player. Which is understandable, because Özil is a particularly unusual player, one with very few direct comparatives even in the last 50 years, and also Arsenal managed to waste his best seasons due to flaws elsewhere.

In his two best years, had the rest of the team performed at a comparative level, or were it like an Invincibles squad, people would be wristing themselves blind. Sadly in 15-16 all the goals dried up, and the defence started its decline that undermined the 16-17 campaign.

While Özil may never have been a big contributor to overall play, its worth noting that his two best seasons were much more productive than the seasons from Bergkamp in 02 & 04 (not that he was as good a player, because he seldom offered the same leadership or variety)

Agree.

From my previous post I have already stated that he is a good final third player, with almost no contribution to the build up phase. So I do understand where he gets praises from, and where he gets criticism for. I also explained why he is called an inconsistent player.

I never rate a player who can only operate well in one phase, but being a liability (tactically) in other phases.

It is not that I don’t understand his strength, it’s just his weaknesses have outweighed it.

 

[L3T5 PL4Y]

Not saying you're wrong per se, but that's a very simplified look at Özil's style of play and the teams he's been a part of. The only really streamlined counter attacking teams he's played for were Mourinho's Real and the 2010 German NT - by 2012 they were already reverting to a more mixed style in comparison to the 2010 fast paced counter machine.

Özil's never been useless per se in possession football, on the contrary with his intelligence and movement he's been integral to a lot of sides' ball circulation.

Sure but that's my point really. He got shifted to wide areas as Germany got better moving away from a pure counter attacking style to a more controlled style. Same thing for Madrid really.

I pretty much put it down in writing a year or two prior to his contract extension that he was done and redundant in modern football really.

 

[Toby]

Sure but that's my point really. He got shifted to wide areas as Germany got better moving away from a pure counter attacking style to a more controlled style. Same thing for Madrid really.

Not just down to style change. Löw opted for that possession game and having Özil and Kroos in the side was the way to go in 2014, especially with Özil's ability to drift into half spaces and between the lines and Germany were giving up a lot of width anyway for a lack of proper quality wingers and fullbacks - with the exception of Philipp Lahm at RB.

 

[Football Manager]

Not at all. He has never been a control or possession dominant team player. He is a counter attack player. That's why Germany shifted him to the wings in favor of players who can actually influence overall play. In the middle he actually influences the team to have lesser control. That's why no big team went for him and RM flourished again in the CL. When Özil was great in a WC or a Euro or at his best were all fast paced counter attack teams and most of his best moments are more often than not always a counter attack situation but his influence beyond that was always lacking. Its more that the likes of Benzema, Ronaldo, Podolski, Muller, Alexis and the midfielders who made him better or covered his short comings rather than him making them play better because even in his earlier days he wasn't physically able to cope with the intensity of play anywhere.

This is revisionist bullshit or you don't watch or understand football.

Spot on.
You and @lomekian have listed all the strengths and weaknesses of Özil.

 

[Fewtch]

Yes, after 2 pages of discussion, you finally notice that we are criticising him for never contributing in the build up play, hurting our team chances to progress to the final third.

Unlike most number 10, he rarely helps the team in overall/general play, that hurts our team stats, as we would create less chances for the forward if we always failed to get the team arriving to the final third because of him not contributing.

This is just not true though. You’re criticizing one player for the same thing you’re praising others. Apart from being a passing option between the lines, the City midfielders are not part of the build up phase just like Özil. That’s why the DM, CBs and FBs at City are the ones with the most passes per game. That’s not a problem though because it’s intended by Pep and it’s why he inverts the fullbacks so the two attacking midfielders can have more freedom and go high up the pitch.

 

[Ash10]

Just lock this thread. The guy won't probably ever play for us again & here we are bickering for no reason

 

[Football Manager]

This is just not true though. You’re criticizing one player for the same thing you’re praising others. Apart from being a passing option between the lines, the City midfielders are not part of the build up phase just like Özil. That’s why the DM, CBs and FBs at City are the ones with the most passes per game. That’s not a problem though because it’s intended by Pep and it’s why he inverts the fullbacks so the two attacking midfielders can have more freedom and go high up the pitch.

City has all their players contributing to the build up, which is great. Their midfielder do occupied the space a lot further up in the final phase. But that doesn't stop them helping the build up in between, before they arrive to the final third (between the build up phase and the final phase). Read through page 329-331. You will understand what is good and bad about Özil. And you would get why Özil are being criticised.

 

[Jae]

Why are we still discussing this absolute fraud of a player?

Fear not boys! Only 12 more months and were finally free.

 

[GDeep™]

Just lock this thread. The guy won't probably ever play for us again & here we are bickering for no reason

The club should sit down with him and work out an exit strategy.

The reasonable thing would be to pay him off, or a loan where we meet the bulk of his wages - we can maybe charge a fee though.

 

[Fewtch]

City has all their players contributing to the build up, which is great. Their midfielder do occupied the space a lot further up in the final phase. But that doesn't stop them helping the build up in between, before they arrive to the final third (between the build up phase and the final phase). Read through page 329-331. You will understand what is good and bad about Özil. And you would get why Özil are being criticised.

I disagree, the city midfielders are part of the build up just as much as Özil is. Watch some City games and you will understand