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Mesut Özil: 2019/20 Performances

Why Isn't Özil Playing?


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Arsenal1508

Mods are unethical! Özil, come assist me please!
Tony Adams has got to be taking the pi×s!

Özil can not be a talent anymore at 31-32. He is either reached his potential or past his prime.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
obviously this is not a black-or-white statement. You then, should also not blame a player about lack of motivation when he trains hard and is professional. Where is the lack of accountability you speak of?


this is what many websites were publishing around that time: The Daily Telegraph on Tuesday wrote that Ramsey’s future “remains in doubt”. His spot in the Arsenal side is reportedly not certain, and he’s “already rejected one extension” to his current contract, which expires at the end of the year.

They were all calling him a liar, snake and whatever.

What Wenger said(the actual truth): https://talksport.com/football/626488/Arsène-wenger-aaron-ramsey-arsenal-contract-juventus/

Journalists 'opinions' aren't worth a fig. That said, he may well have rejected one extension, ie Arsenal's first offer - as nearly always happens in any negotiation. You assuming the most negative intention behind a bland statement doesn't make it a concerted campaign. The world and his wife knew that Arsenal had stopped the negotiations for whatever reason.

What I heard from a few trustworthy sources was that while Ramsey was happy to stay, he wasn't desperate to, and his agent (a notoriously cash maximising type) had prevaricated for some time seeing how Özil and Sanchez had played us, and was hoping for the Gazidis desperation move. or to get a massive offer from Overseas. Rambo was happy at Arsenal but had always expressed an interest in playing in Spain or Italy, so was happy to let the agent he's had since he was a kid lead matters.

The question you need to ask is, if there was an agreement in place under Wenger, why were the club able to break of negotiations with Ramsey's agent several months later?

At first Emery didn't fancy Ramsey, which made Ramsey's wage demands simply not worth it. By the time Emery wanted to use him that ship had sailed. But that still means that there were 3-4 months of Ramsey's agent having a contract on the table that never got signed...

Either way, its unimportant. No Arsenal fans have ill feeling towards Ramsey. He's getting to stroll his way to titles in a largely one team league alongside one of the best players of all time and being paid more than we could afford to do so.

From an Arsenal perspective, we avoided making an injury prone midfielder in his late 20s (who the then manager only used when the team stopped functioning) our second highest paid player of all time, while already carrying Mikhi and Özil.

Despite our midfield being cack this year, it was the best move for all parties. Where the problem lay is that our transfer committee were foolish enough to agree with their coach that central midfield wasn't a priority.

For the record, I loved Rambo, and was desperate for us to buy him after seeing him destroy us for Cardiff reserves. Without that thug Shawcross, he might not have had the injury issues and we could have seen rather more periods like the first half of 13/14 were he was ELITE
 

krackpot

Established Member
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Journalists 'opinions' aren't worth a fig. That said, he may well have rejected one extension, ie Arsenal's first offer - as nearly always happens in any negotiation. You assuming the most negative intention behind a bland statement doesn't make it a concerted campaign. The world and his wife knew that Arsenal had stopped the negotiations for whatever reason.

What I heard from a few trustworthy sources was that while Ramsey was happy to stay, he wasn't desperate to, and his agent (a notoriously cash maximising type) had prevaricated for some time seeing how Özil and Sanchez had played us, and was hoping for the Gazidis desperation move. or to get a massive offer from Overseas. Rambo was happy at Arsenal but had always expressed an interest in playing in Spain or Italy, so was happy to let the agent he's had since he was a kid lead matters.

The question you need to ask is, if there was an agreement in place under Wenger, why were the club able to break of negotiations with Ramsey's agent several months later?

At first Emery didn't fancy Ramsey, which made Ramsey's wage demands simply not worth it. By the time Emery wanted to use him that ship had sailed. But that still means that there were 3-4 months of Ramsey's agent having a contract on the table that never got signed...

Either way, its unimportant. No Arsenal fans have ill feeling towards Ramsey. He's getting to stroll his way to titles in a largely one team league alongside one of the best players of all time and being paid more than we could afford to do so.

From an Arsenal perspective, we avoided making an injury prone midfielder in his late 20s (who the then manager only used when the team stopped functioning) our second highest paid player of all time, while already carrying Mikhi and Özil.

Despite our midfield being cack this year, it was the best move for all parties. Where the problem lay is that our transfer committee were foolish enough to agree with their coach that central midfield wasn't a priority.

For the record, I loved Rambo, and was desperate for us to buy him after seeing him destroy us for Cardiff reserves. Without that thug Shawcross, he might not have had the injury issues and we could have seen rather more periods like the first half of 13/14 were he was ELITE
I wasn't a big fan of Ramsey but no one can deny his influence. He was getting bigger than he deserved to be (barely a first team player).

I mean, okay, whatever happened, maybe he didnt take the deal or something. But we needed to be transparent about it.

As a club, AFC needs to stand behind the player. Why did they give Özil a contract if they knew Emery was gonna come? and why didn;t they ask Emery to keep playing him until he was sold?

Wenger said many times that he wouldn't have given Özil a contract. He didn't give Pires a longer contract back then. He knew it was not a good idea. Everybody knew.

Like somehow we know with Auba that half of his wages is likely to be wasted, but that's the risk you take, isnt it?
 

James Bond

Moderation Consultant
I think, like most of us, I’m done with this saga already. Done with the bickering between both camps. Done with the club making excuses. They should simply be honest with us about whats going on. Instead of making up slight injuries contradicted by Mesut being in full training for example. Just tell us he’s not committed or not fit or simply not what Arteta’s wants in a player.

The only ones who question it are Özil’s hive of maniacs who spring to life when we drop points (but we’re silent when beating Liverpool, City and making a final) as they want to believe he’s not finished and that if only he got on the pitch and had the manager(s) put their faith in him he’d be back playing like he was at Madrid or some **** despite YEARS inconsistent form at best at Arsenal and examples of managers getting the sack while trying to get a consistent tune out of him as the club falls down the table/out of the CL. [Just in case people forgot, go watch the second leg vs Atletico or the Final vs Chelsea in Baku. Two biggest games in recent Arsenal history. Wenger and Emery both backed and started Özil, yet he didn’t turn up to either, but it’s not even shocking as it’s expected at this point.] Arteta is going/trying to get this club back to the top, not cater to and sticking his neck out aswell for some washed playmaker with a fragile psyche who clearly cannot be depended on.

It’s time to move on. The club has. The manager has. The squad has. Only his Stans are having trouble with it, but it’s been known they aren’t “on the boat”.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
It’s time to move on. The club has. The manager has. The squad has. Only his Stans are having trouble with it, but it’s been known they aren’t “on the boat”.
Who has moved on? The club hasn’t, he’s still here. His detractors haven’t because they’re constantly attacking a guy who is not playing/not willing to take a massive wage cut.

Most of the debate now is around his situation rather than his position in the team, it’s widely accepted he’s finished here.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
Who did we lose over the off season?
Koscielny, Monreal after Burnley, Ramsey.

Anybody else of note?
Who did we gain? Ceballos, Luiz, Pepe, Tierney (injured initially), Martinelli.
I may have missed some, but with the exception of Ramsey none of the above go far towards explaining what happened this season.

We started poorly but picked up results, then the law of averages caught up with us and the "boat" hit an iceberg.

Emery lost this dressing room some time on Feb-May last season and never won it back. Regardless of his game management, his man management has been shown to be demonstrably awful in his last few assignments and at an Arsenal in need of a standards and cultural reset, he was a poor appointment albeit understandable.

In my mind the jury is still out on last window but it looks better than many before it. Did we spaff too much on Pepe? Looks like it, but Martinelli could prove an absolute steal and if we turn Pepe into a £55m winger on balance it will be a good window.
At least it ain't £72m on the Spanish Ospina.

Is there the argument that we bought the wrong sort of players for Emery (who has said he wanted Zaha and a different midfielder)? Yes there is, but that's partly the model with a Technical director and Raul. The manager isn't solely in charge of targets and the club needs to be joined up in building a squad so that if the manager leaves the next guy doesn't turn up to manage an Emery squad geared up only able to play "Respect ball". The counter argument is that it's hard to see any player who improved under Emery. The only positive really, was the blooding of Saka, Martinelli and some game time to Willock. That says Emery recognised issues with senior players even of he could not directly address them.

TL;DR - Özil is finished

Players we signed are not good enough to make up for the ones we lost. The Pepe we spent all our money on is at best a marginal upgrade from Iwobi and Mkhi, if he is an upgrade. Luiz is a downgrade even from a past it Kos. Martinelli showed some potential but isn't some savior and next Mbappe that some fans seem to think he is, he is still one for the future. Tierney is a decent signing but still has a lot to prove before he can be considered a left back on the level of Monreal.

But the main reason for our struggle this season is the absolutely boneheaded decision to replace Ramsey with Ceballos, Ceballos is a mid table, Xhaka level midfielder and nowhere near good enough to replace Ramsey. And this is coming from someone who thinks Ramsey is overrated by Arsenal fans.
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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His detractors haven’t because they’re constantly attacking a guy who is not playing/not willing to take a massive wage cut.
.
The thread was bumped by an Özil fan after we lost to Villa.
Not by his 'detractor'
 
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James Bond

Moderation Consultant
Who has moved on? The club hasn’t, he’s still here. His detractors haven’t because they’re constantly attacking a guy who is not playing/not willing to take a massive wage cut.

Most of the debate now is around his situation rather than his position in the team, it’s widely accepted he’s finished here.

“His detractors” didn’t bump the thread after any of the wins or draws, but after a loss you @GDeep™ were the first to bump the thread with reply about his lack of inclusion in the squad, so how exactly are you talking about it being widely accepted he’s done here? :lol:

My last reply however was to someone asking why the club/Arteta give attention to the situation when it is quite clear why, as I outlined, he isn’t playing and why Arteta doesn’t need to address it with anyone.
 

krackpot

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
The thread for bumped by an Özil fan after we list to Villa.
Not by his 'detractor'
“His detractors” didn’t bump the thread after any of the wins or draws, but after a loss you @GDeep™ were the first to bump the thread with reply about his lack of inclusion in the squad, so how exactly are you talking about it being widely accepted he’s done here? :lol:

My last reply however was to someone asking why the club/Arteta give attention to the situation when it is quite clear why, as I outlined, he isn’t playing and why Arteta doesn’t need to address it with anyone.
If Auba was dropped and we lost, wouldn't you wonder why he was not picked?
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
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Country: England
Well Auba might score and win us the game.
Özil might...I don’t even know what it is people think he’s does.

I said to myself I wasn’t gonna get involved anymore smh
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
I wasn't a big fan of Ramsey but no one can deny his influence. He was getting bigger than he deserved to be (barely a first team player).

I mean, okay, whatever happened, maybe he didnt take the deal or something. But we needed to be transparent about it.

As a club, AFC needs to stand behind the player. Why did they give Özil a contract if they knew Emery was gonna come? and why didn;t they ask Emery to keep playing him until he was sold?

Wenger said many times that he wouldn't have given Özil a contract. He didn't give Pires a longer contract back then. He knew it was not a good idea. Everybody knew.

Like somehow we know with Auba that half of his wages is likely to be wasted, but that's the risk you take, isnt it?

No clubs are ever transparent except when they want to be given credit for something. Same with agents.

Özil got his contract long before Emery was a twinkle in Raul's eye. That contract was, as everyone knows, all on Gazidis needing to save face after the Sanchez thing blew up in our faces.

Overall, I must confess, I don't know what point you are trying to make.
 

lomekian

Essays are my thing
One is one of the top scorers in the league who constantly wins us games while the other has 1 goal & 2 assists in the league this season

Such a fair comparison:lol:

Well given that some on here complain that Pepe does nothing beyond his end product, when his end product is decent, its hardly surprising.
 

krackpot

Established Member
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One is one of the top scorers in the league who constantly wins us games while the other has 1 goal & 2 assists in the league this season

Such a fair comparison:lol:
dear God.

No clubs are ever transparent except when they want to be given credit for something. Same with agents.

Özil got his contract long before Emery was a twinkle in Raul's eye. That contract was, as everyone knows, all on Gazidis needing to save face after the Sanchez thing blew up in our faces.

Overall, I must confess, I don't know what point you are trying to make.
That is my point. Raul should have known. If he didn't, it is a failure on his part. If you take over a buggy project, then you have to find out the issues and problem areas. Seems like he just whinged it and prayed.

Also, I get butt-hurt when AFC play like Stoke, and all these supporters and fans seem fine with it just because one of our most creative players gets a big wage.

I mean, get over the salary dudes. We lost to Villa without putting in a shot on target. Play him, and then bash him up.

See if I defend him when he plays and we lose like we lost at Villa.
 

GoonerJay24

Well-Known Member
Our decline started in that period.
The FA cup blinded us to what was going on.

We were ****e in the 15/16 season. How can you 'almost' win the league when you finish with 76 points?
Let's be honest, if the other clubs were up for it, we wouldn't have Been in any title race.

Our form that season was top four at best, butwe finished second because other teams were bad.

Infact, we played better Football in 14/15 than 15/16.

Our transfer during that period 14-18 period was horrendous.

Two top signings in four years at a club like Arsenal plus the added millstone that was put around our neck that is Özil contract, it's little surprise that we're where we are.

What about the high amount of injuries in
15-16, how comes nobody talks about that?
 

Oxeki

Match Day Thread Merchant
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Country: Nigeria

Player:Saliba
If Auba was dropped and we lost, wouldn't you wonder why he was not picked?
If Auba was dropped of course most fans won't be happy because Auba is o e of the best striker in the world. He has scored the most goal in the league since came here.

On the other hand, Özil has 4 goals and six assist in the league in the past 2 season.

Wow! what a comparison. :lol: :rofl:
 
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scytheavatar

Established Member
dear God.


That is my point. Raul should have known. If he didn't, it is a failure on his part. If you take over a buggy project, then you have to find out the issues and problem areas. Seems like he just whinged it and prayed.

Also, I get butt-hurt when AFC play like Stoke, and all these supporters and fans seem fine with it just because one of our most creative players gets a big wage.

I mean, get over the salary dudes. We lost to Villa without putting in a shot on target. Play him, and then bash him up.

See if I defend him when he plays and we lose like we lost at Villa.

Özil has played numerous times this season and previous seasons when we still ended up being clueless and as creative as Stoke...... playing him solves none of the problems in the team. He has always been icing on the cake and useless when there is no cake. Our team is full of players who struggle in tough away games and Özil is one of the worst of them in underachieving when his opponents park the bus. If Arteta wants to play Özil and hope he'll change us in some way then he's just repeating all the mistakes Emery made. And he can wait to face the same fate as Emery.
 
Hope he stays all of next season milking this club for all its worth.

Hope he starts acting like Bale, I mean people love when the British guy does it, hopefully he starts taking the piss completely. Maybe start posting videos of himself playing fortnite while we're playing the NLD or something like that and still get 350k to do so.

Bale won RM 3 UCL trophies, was getting the stick from their fans even when he was performing at highest level. Özil on other hand has been under-performing for 7 years, despite that he had fanboys singing his name. Completely different scenarios, and Bale doesn't give a f*ck about his brand or anything, he will still have large number of clubs queuing for him once his contract runs down.
 

kraphtous

Raul Stanllehi
Bale won RM 3 UCL trophies, was getting the stick from their fans even when he was performing at highest level. Özil on other hand has been under-performing for 7 years, despite that he had fanboys singing his name. Completely different scenarios, and Bale doesn't give a f*ck about his brand or anything, he will still have large number of clubs queuing for him once his contract runs down.
Özil won Arsenal 3 FA Cups, which is the equivalent when you compare stature of both clubs. :)
 

GunnerShy

Well-Known Member
Players we signed are not good enough to make up for the ones we lost. The Pepe we spent all our money on is at best a marginal upgrade from Iwobi and Mkhi, if he is an upgrade. Luiz is a downgrade even from a past it Kos. Martinelli showed some potential but isn't some savior and next Mbappe that some fans seem to think he is, he is still one for the future. Tierney is a decent signing but still has a lot to prove before he can be considered a left back on the level of Monreal.

But the main reason for our struggle this season is the absolutely boneheaded decision to replace Ramsey with Ceballos, Ceballos is a mid table, Xhaka level midfielder and nowhere near good enough to replace Ramsey. And this is coming from someone who thinks Ramsey is overrated by Arsenal fans.
I've never heard Martinelli compared to Mbappe. Sounds like you've just made that up. But he could be a superstar. At worst he will be a profit.

Tierney already plays at a Monreal level. Just requires durability (which he had historically had) he is a great replacement and likely an upgrade to a great Arsenal servant.

As for Luiz, yes you may be right. But Kos left at short notice unhappy with his treatment in his final season. That's on Emery, nobody else. It should have been more of a red flag really.

Pepe is an upgrade. To what extent we will know better next season.

Ramsey v Ceballos - yes, different players really. As I acknowledged in what I wrote he's not been replaced.

On balance did the squad improve? not as much as hoped (Pepe). But there's still upside and the players are generally 5 or so years younger than their replacements.
 
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