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Mikel Arteta: Top Of The Klopps

krackpot

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Wenger was great, but never tactical-wise. Couldn’t keep up with the complexity of modern tactics. He was better suits to be in higher management. Was a great manager but maybe he just need a tactical analyst around him.

I respect wenger for what I have praised him for as above. He is top class in them, but just not tactics. Tactics is always, and now a more and more important aspect of the game.

What Arteta has learned from wenger maybe was just man/resources management, motivating/communicating with players, develop a broader perspective, how to bring the club forward......things that in macro perspective, which are useful for building the future.

For this game, Arteta might have taken notes from Wenger on how to prepare team talks in a final, or how he can motivate his players to give them confidence.

At Man City, Arteta learned video/stats analysis, tactical knowledge, details on players’ position/movements, how to improve players methodically......extremely detailed micro perspective stuff that actually wins you football games. (This is why Guardiola and Klopp are regarded as two of the best tactician) (Tactics before the 2005-2010 era was much simpler compared to today’s tactics)

For this game, Arteta surely has taken out his notes, which he took from Guardiola on micro tactics, mathematical model on stats...........Analysis the opponent’s tactics, and find their weaknesses. To organise a press, to create overload on the pitch, to avoid being overload. If Chelsea gets a winger to the central area to outnumber our midfield, how do we deal with it? Or can we exploit the space being left on the wing? To study every single Chelsea players’ positioning and movement and instruct our players with detailed positioning and movement instructions. And if Chelsea targeted our weakness, how should we respond? If lampard makes a small tactical change, how do we counter that?..........
I'll bite because this is quite absurd. Pep sucks balls. Wenger balls.

Klopp is OK. He in not a mastermind. He has a preferred tactic which is quite successful. He didnt develop it.

The tactics have not changed much. But we have tools that help us see what changes they make. You think they did notmake changes before? Who brought an end to the 4-4-2 in the PL?

Pep couldn't win the CL without Messi. He couldn't beat Liverpool when they spent a similar amount of money. He has KDB, 'the best player in the PL' . What has he won with him? Jackshit.

Pep never won **** with an average team. He took over a team and ethos developed by Rijkaard.

"What's important is finding a position that suits perfectly a player's qualities, a position where he can express his technical qualities and a position where you do not expose his flaws," said Wenger.

"The little details are very, very important, like preferential vision. Some players see more on the right and some see more on the left. If you see a player who passes to the right all the time because of that, then you put them on the left.

"Robert Pires is a good example. He has unbelievable preferential vision, so on the right he is a normal player but on the left he became a world-class player. On the left wing he saw everything, but on the right wing he saw nothing."
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
I'll bite because this is quite absurd. Pep sucks balls. Wenger balls.

Klopp is OK. He in not a mastermind. He has a preferred tactic which is quite successful. He didnt develop it.

The tactics have not changed much. But we have tools that help us see what changes they make. You think they did notmake changes before? Who brought an end to the 4-4-2 in the PL?

Pep couldn't win the CL without Messi. He couldn't beat Liverpool when they spent a similar amount of money. He has KDB, 'the best player in the PL' . What has he won with him? Jackshit.

Pep never won **** with an average team. He took over a team and ethos developed by Rijkaard.

"What's important is finding a position that suits perfectly a player's qualities, a position where he can express his technical qualities and a position where you do not expose his flaws," said Wenger.

"The little details are very, very important, like preferential vision. Some players see more on the right and some see more on the left. If you see a player who passes to the right all the time because of that, then you put them on the left.

"Robert Pires is a good example. He has unbelievable preferential vision, so on the right he is a normal player but on the left he became a world-class player. On the left wing he saw everything, but on the right wing he saw nothing."
You really think it’s that simple?

Wenger sets a general formation/philosophy to his players and trust them on the pitch. Their positioning and movements were very disorganised. You would called it freedom.

Morden tactics is all about instructing detailed pre-sets positioning and movement instructions to players, to exploit the opponent weaknesses as a team and avoid the other way round.

For example, if we need to create space for aubameyang on the left, how are we going to do it?

1) We pass from deep, invite Chelsea to press high. Now there are space in behind.

2) Then how do we take their wing back out of the game? We create overload on the left, CBs shift central, tierney shift to the wide left, AMN shift inwards to create the overload with tierney. Chelsea engaged their wing back upwards to prevent overload. Now space on the left.

3) How to make even more space for aubameyang, Lacazette drops deep to create a greater overload and dragging a Chelsea CB out of the game. Now there is even more space.

But there are other things we have to consider. If we create these overload/play from deep, are there any risks? If they dropped a striker deep to counter our plan? Maybe we can shift Pepe inwards to counter their tweaks? And what next will they do?

And above, I have only mentioned a small part of the build up phase play. I haven’t even mentioned the defensive phase and final third phase, and what every player’s duties are, in the transition between these phases.....

Every of these players position and movements are now pre-instructed to a very high detailed level. Every single moves is now well calculated. Much more analytic based. It’s more than just 442/4231, knowing your players quality and then play them in the right position.

I’m not praising pep for whatever he wins. He wins maybe because it’s money, maybe it’s luck. But by purely looking at how good he is on modern tactical knowledge, how detailed he sets up his game plan and how clever are his in-game tactical tweaks, it’s a fool to not admiring him. Not to mentioned that his tactical ideas was revolutionary. His ideas changes a lot on how today’s football teams are played/how they press. Arteta is that good mostly because of him.

You see how many details went into this game.
And this video has not even mentioned how they press. Man oriented pressing? zonal pressing? passing lane oriented pressing? or a mixture of the above? When do we start to press? 15 yards outside opponent’s goal-line? Or 30 yards? How many players would you commit? What if they drop another player deep to help. If they avoid the press, are we in danger of being attacked?

Klopp and Guardiola are two of the best tacticians, I don’t know what’s in your mind to make it like they are average.
 
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Goonger

Well-Known Member
Beat last year's CL PL and EL winners in the last couple of weeks.

907adllwthe51.png

Was just about to post, in 6 months, man has beaten Ole, Ancelotti, Nuno, Klopp, Pep & Lampard, all with an average as feck team!
Mourinho, the 1 that got away, but my man is ruthless, he'll be hanging on Arteta's wall next season.
 

Mo Britain

Doom Monger
Manager has to see the full picture and make the team work like an orchestra. The average fan only sees the detail and complains, for example, how Lacazette isn't influencing play when he is carrying out the manager's instructions as part of the overall plan.

Still have a preference for players playing on the side where they have their strongest foot.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
EeXNeCNVoAEfaaZ


How all Arsenal fans feel about this...

EeZS5f8XkAAiIZ_
 

kash2

More Consistent Than Arteta
Wenger was great, but never tactical-wise. Couldn’t keep up with the complexity of modern tactics. He was better suits to be in higher management. Was a great manager but maybe he just need a tactical analyst around him.

What Arteta has learned from wenger maybe was just man/resources management, motivating/communicating with players, develop a broader perspective, how to bring the club forward......things that in macro perspective, which are useful for building the future.

For this game, Arteta might have taken notes from Wenger on how to prepare team talks in a final, or how he can motivate his players to give them confidence.

I respect wenger for what I have praised him for as above. He is top class in them, but just not tactics. Tactics is always, and now a more and more important aspect of the game.

At Man City, Arteta learned video/stats analysis, tactical knowledge, details on players’ position/movements, how to improve players methodically......extremely detailed micro perspective stuff that actually wins you football games. (This is why Guardiola and Klopp are regarded as two of the best tactician) (Tactics before the 2005-2010 era was much simpler compared to today’s tactics)

For this game, Arteta surely has taken out his notes, which he took from Guardiola on micro tactics, mathematical model on stats...........Analysis the opponent’s tactics, and find their weaknesses. To organise a press, to create overload on the pitch, to avoid being overload. If Chelsea gets a winger to the central area to outnumber our midfield, how do we deal with it? Or can we exploit the space being left on the wing? To study every single Chelsea players’ positioning and movement and instruct our players with detailed positioning and movement instructions. And if Chelsea targeted our weakness, how should we respond? If lampard makes a small tactical change, how do we counter that?..........
Wenger went up against prime Barcelona and prime Dortmund with a team of kids. Wenger was another level. Klopp and Pep may reach that level but haven't till now.
 

razörist

Soft With The Ladies, Hard With The Mes

Country: Morocco
Perhaps its been shown on here before but I haven’t seen it so went to have a look:

Arsenal before Arteta joined
2v3dcx.jpeg


Arsenal after Arteta joined
ixjc8a.jpeg


+ a cheeky FA cup
+ a happy, motivated squad

And the only signings he got were worldbeaters Pablo Mari and Cedric Soares, that were used for like 5 games.

I mean, unless you expected him to go full invincible mode from day 1 you have to tip your hat to Arteta. He managed this with the same dead squad that had most of us waking up in tears in the middle of the night. Imagine if he gets some players he actually wants!
 

Hunta

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Perhaps its been shown on here before but I haven’t seen it so went to have a look:

Arsenal before Arteta joined
2v3dcx.jpeg


Arsenal after Arteta joined
ixjc8a.jpeg


+ a cheeky FA cup
+ a happy, motivated squad

And the only signings he got were worldbeaters Pablo Mari and Cedric Soares, that were used for like 5 games.

I mean, unless you expected him to go full invincible mode from day 1 you have to tip your hat to Arteta. He managed this with the same dead squad that had most of us waking up in tears in the middle of the night. Imagine if he gets some players he actually wants!
How many red cards and injuries did he have to deal with as well? Every game we seemed to lose a player.
 

Football Manager

Copy & Paste Merchant
Wenger went up against prime Barcelona and prime Dortmund with a team of kids. Wenger was another level. Klopp and Pep may reach that level but haven't till now.
I’m just judging from a pure tactical perspective. It’s not even about the level of players, kids/adults. You can see wenger clearly gives freedom to and trust his players. Yes, we did play under our general principles but our players were clearly not specifically given any detailed instructions to follow.
You really think it’s that simple?

Wenger sets a general formation/philosophy to his players and trust them on the pitch. Their positioning and movements were very disorganised. You would called it freedom.

Morden tactics is all about instructing detailed pre-sets positioning and movement instructions to players, to exploit the opponent weaknesses as a team and avoid the other way round.

For example, if we need to create space for aubameyang on the left, how are we going to do it?

1) We pass from deep, invite Chelsea to press high. Now there are space in behind.

2) Then how do we take their wing back out of the game? We create overload on the left, the 2 CBs on the right shift centrally, tierney shift to the wide left, AMN shift inwards to a CM position to create the overload with tierney. Chelsea engaged their wing back upwards to prevent overload. Now space on the left.

3) How to make even more space for aubameyang, Lacazette drops deep to create a greater overload and dragging a Chelsea CB out of the game. Now there is even more space at the back.

But there are other things we have to consider. If we create these overload/play from deep, are there any risks? If they dropped a striker deep to counter our plan? Maybe we can shift Pepe inwards to counter their tweaks? And what next will they do?

And above, I have only mentioned a small part of the build up phase play. I haven’t even mentioned the defensive phase and final third phase, and what every player’s duties are, in the transition between these phases.....

Every of these players position and movements are now pre-instructed to a very high detailed level. Every single moves is now well calculated. Much more analytic based. It’s more than just 442/4231, knowing your players quality and then play them in the right position.

I’m not praising pep for whatever he wins. He wins maybe because it’s money, maybe it’s luck. But by purely looking at how good he is on modern tactical knowledge, how detailed he sets up his game plan and how clever are his in-game tactical tweaks, it’s a fool to not admiring him. Not to mentioned that his tactical ideas was revolutionary. His ideas changes a lot on how today’s football teams are played/how they press. Arteta is that good mostly because of him.

You see how many details went into this game.


And this video has not even mentioned how they press. Man oriented pressing? zonal pressing? passing lane oriented pressing? or a mixture of the above? When do we start to press? 15 yards outside opponent’s goal-line? Or 30 yards? How many players would you commit? What if they drop another player deep to help. If they avoid the press, are we in danger of being attacked?

Klopp and Guardiola are two of the best tacticians, I don’t know what’s in your mind to make it like they are average.
 
Last edited:

Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
Btw we didn't concede a single shot on target after the 10th minute, under Emery we used to concede shots for fun. What's funny about this is that Emery was seen as a pragmatist while Arteta is seen as an up and coming progressive manager with an attacking style. Yet the most notable change we've seen is in our defensive structure. I think balance is the most important thing tho which I think Arteta has done excellently in recent games against City and Chelsea. Of course there's still the performance vs Villa where we look void of creativity or how we almost collapsed vs Watford which reinforces the idea that we need additions in both defence, midfield and in terms of adding creativity.
 

AberGooner

Established Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Scotland

Player:Gabriel
Amazing achievement from Mikel with what he's had to work with. People can mention the league position but there's no doubt we'd have slid even further down the table if Emery had remained.

For the first time in years I'm starting to actually feeling confident going into games against the big sides and he's managed that in 6 months. Still work to be done on our consistency and that annoying habit of starting poorly after half time. Needs to be backed this summer, he's more than earned it now.
 

Kysus

Active Member
You really think it’s that simple?

Wenger just had a different philosophy.
He built comprehensive units that micromanaged themselves on the pitch and if this works properly those units can adjust a lot more quickly and fluently to changes/challenges on the pitch.
The invincibles are a perfect example.
You should also not forget that both styles have their advantadges /disadvantadges and both always need some of the other as freedom brings creativity(and breaks organisation)
Wenger's philosophy was to break organized units by creating chaos by being unpredictable.
Letting players express themselves freely.
When it worked to perfection it was pure beauty and insanely effective.

Open your mind a little and think outside the box, there is no right way.
 

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