Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[Pyres7]

Gabriel can't play the Tierney role of LCB to LWB, so he has to be the middle CB.

That leaves Luiz/Holding for RCB, personally I prefer Luiz there. Holding is slightly more safe defensively but he invites pressure on us with his poor passing out.

 

[Manberg]

Whilst I’m not against signing an Aouar, why do people assume that we must have a creative midfielder in a number 10 role to create chances?
Have we learned nothing from Liverpool? A team who has achieved so much success using a terrifying attack with three non creative but hard working midfielders. Creativity and attacking threat is going to be (and has been) the responsibility of the forwards and the wingbacks, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Get rid of this old age reasoning that we must have a number 10 sitting behind the strikers to magically create chances.

If we fail to create chances, blame the forwards and the wingbacks for not moving enough and pressuring the opposition. Get to grips with new age tactics.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Whilst I’m not against signing an Aouar, why do people assume that we must have a creative midfielder in a number 10 role to create chances?
Have we learned nothing from Liverpool? A team who has achieved so much success using a terrifying attack with three non creative but hard working midfielders. Creativity and attacking threat is going to be (and has been) the responsibility of the forwards and the wingbacks, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Get rid of this old age reasoning that we must have a number 10 sitting behind the strikers to magically create chances.

If we fail to create chances, blame the forwards and the wingbacks for not moving enough and pressuring the opposition. Get to grips with new age tactics.

1. We don't have the most creative RB in the game, who transcends the position offensively
2. We don't have two world class wide forwards like Mané and Salah
3. We don't have the best false 9 in the game

Liverpool is a rare case. Even then they have 3 players that are fantastic receiving and operating in between lines, one (Firmino) who is essentially the type of 10 you describe and say we don't need.

No team is consistently creating without these types of players. The two we have is a 19 year old and a 33 year old.

Aouar wouldn't be the type of 10 you are talking about anyways. He's more an 8, or sometimes an 8 on the left coming from Willian/Auba's position.

James is just as comfortable playing as a 10 coming in from the right, Pepe's position. That's where he plays for Everton and where he has typically played throughout his career.

No one is suggesting this type of static type of 10 which is out of fashion in world football at the moment (though, which, in its essence--a natural chance creator in the 10 space, even if often drifting into it from another nominal position on the pitch--will always have its place and importance in football).

 

[Manberg]

1. We don't have the most creative RB in the game, who transcends the position offensively
2. We don't have two world class wide forwards like Mané and Salah
3. We don't have the best false 9 in the game

Liverpool is a rare case. Even then they have 3 players that are fantastic receiving and operating in between lines, one (Firmino) who is essentially the type of 10 you describe and say we don't need.

No team is consistently creating without these types of players. The two we have is a 19 year old and a 33 year old.

Aouar wouldn't be the type of 10 you are talking about anyways. He's more an 8, or sometimes an 8 on the left coming from Willian/Auba's position.

James is just as comfortable playing as a 10 coming in from the right, Pepe's position. That's where he plays for Everton and where he has typically played throughout his career.

No one is suggesting this type of static type of 10 which is out of fashion in world football at the moment (though, which, in its essence--a natural chance creator in the 10 space, even if often drifting into it from another nominal position on the pitch--will always have its place and importance in football).

Bellerin is doing well. Provided creativity we needed for the first goal against Sheffield by getting into the area and providing a great cross. He managed this against a well drilled low block. Bellerin is way better than he is given credit for.
I do not see Firmino as a 10 I see him as a false 9 and I don’t think he’s been that good. Lacazette can do what he does. We don’t have Mane and Salah but we have Aubameyang and Pepe (and Willian). Quality forwards in their own right. They all have their qualities.

People have been advocating buying Aouar to use him as a #10, which is why I bought it up. I think we are equally capable of creating chances using a hardworking midfield 3 to win the ball and quickly lay it off to forwards and marauding wingbacks. The midfield can make runs into the box to provide extra attacking options should the need arise. We do not need a #10 it is not absolutely necessary.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Bellerin is doing well. Provided creativity we needed for the first goal against Sheffield by getting into the area and providing a great cross. He managed this against a well drilled low block. Bellerin is way better than he is given credit for.

Agreed, but he's not TAA level going forward, no one is at RB, Achraf is closest.

I do not see Firmino as a 10 I see him as a false 9 and I don’t think he’s been that good. Lacazette can do what he does

There are levels between Firmino and Lacazette in that position. Massive disrespect to Firmino here.

People have been advocating buying Aouar to use him as a #10, which is why I bought it up. I think we are equally capable of creating chances using a hardworking midfield 3 to win the ball and quickly lay it off to forwards and marauding wingbacks. The midfield can make runs into the box to provide extra attacking options should the need arise. We do not need a #10 it is not absolutely necessary.

No one said a #10 is absolutely necessary--as stated, nor James nor Aouar would operate as a traditional #10 as you are stating, so you are arguing against a strawman there--but the fact is we are absolutely deficient in creating chances. Last season under Arteta we were low table level in this. So far this season we are not that much better. We continue to be very efficient in putting away the chances we make but that can only last for so long, a regression to the mean will happen eventually. Time will tell how much Willian can help in this facet and how much Saka can help as he continues to evolve. That doesn't change the fact it is A LOT to put on the shoulders of a 19 year old and 33 year old over a long season. Thomas will help the quality of our game and this should latently help chance creation but not signing another creative player and chance creator is without a doubt a massive risk that we've taken, and still an area that needs addressing in the squad, bar a sudden ESR breakout or Saka proving to be even better than really our wildest dreams (even the, still huge reliance on a 19 year old, and arguably irresponsible fitness wise).

 

[TriniGunner]

All things being equal and satisfying, this would be my lineup

Leno

Bellerin Holding Gabriel Tierney

Xhaka Partey

Pepe Özil Auba

Laca

 

[kash2]

All things being equal and satisfying, this would be my lineup

Leno

Bellerin Holding Gabriel Tierney

Xhaka Partey

Pepe Özil Auba

Laca

would put saka instead of auba and auba instead of laca

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

Agreed but let's give a bit more respect to Dani eh guys, Thomas is a fine player but Dani is right there with him for our best midfielder, although very different type.

Thomas is considered way better than Dani. Thomas has dominated on the top stage consistently. Dani has not. It’s as simple as that right now, despite what Dani has shown glimpses of. Thomas is considered one of the best CMs in the world right now. Dani is a bit farther down that pecking order.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

I don't buy the whole getting used to the tactics stuff, to be honest. Makes sense for youngsters, but as you say he is top quality and would fit right in. Only way to truly grasp the playstyle is to actually play. He's miles ahead of our other midfielders, so play him and his quality will compensate for some minor tactical issues.

In any case, Arteta's tactics against big teams thusfar has been to park the bus and try to hit them on the break. I trust Partey more than any of our midfielders to break up play in midfield and to transition forward with progressive runs and passes. So he'd actually fit those negative tactics like a glove.

You have to drill a new team’s tactics. That’s why top footballers still have to practice. It’s not as easy as people sitting on their couch think.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

TAA and Robbo create more big chances than our front 3 combined and some. Bellerin and Tierney aren't on that level but Tierney has the potential to get there. Bellerin is actually doing very well tbf but he will never be on that level.

This is why its so important that we play Auba CF because neither Auba or Laca create enough to both be in the same team. Saka, Willian or both always need to be in the starting team now.

 

[AbouCuéllar]

Thomas is considered way better than Dani.

Not sure this is true.

Anyways, we are right in the hype phase of Thomas' time here and I won't be the one to rain on the party. But we know that in a a few months he will be like any other player and people will criticise his bad performances and get upset with him like any other player.

They are very different types of players so it's hard to compare or even kinda stupid to compare but I think you will find they are of a similar level. If I had to choose only one which I would've preferred us signing this summer it would've been Ceballos. (Which is meant as no disrespect to Thomas, that also has to do with type.)

You have to drill a new team’s tactics. That’s why top footballers still have to practice. It’s not as easy as people sitting on their couch think.

True, but given Thomas' is fluent in Spanish and English and a tactically very mature player, and given that Arteta can coach him from the sidelines thanks to covid, I think we're going to be looking at a very quick insertion here, potentially starting with City. We'll see, he's got the international break and 0 training sessions with his new teammates as an excuse to not start him, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it. Wenger started Özil under similar circumstances as I recall?

 

[yybecause]

Gabriel can't play the Tierney role of LCB to LWB, so he has to be the middle CB.

That leaves Luiz/Holding for RCB, personally I prefer Luiz there. Holding is slightly more safe defensively but he invites pressure on us with his poor passing out.

agreed, especially since it is a flexible back 3/4 which brings Luiz to RCB when attacking, perfectly fine

 

[RunTheTrap]

Whilst I’m not against signing an Aouar, why do people assume that we must have a creative midfielder in a number 10 role to create chances?
Have we learned nothing from Liverpool? A team who has achieved so much success using a terrifying attack with three non creative but hard working midfielders. Creativity and attacking threat is going to be (and has been) the responsibility of the forwards and the wingbacks, and there is nothing wrong with that at all. Get rid of this old age reasoning that we must have a number 10 sitting behind the strikers to magically create chances.

If we fail to create chances, blame the forwards and the wingbacks for not moving enough and pressuring the opposition. Get to grips with new age tactics.

Why do you post such intelligent things but rate Xhaka so highly?

 

[Manberg]

Why do you post such intelligent things but rate Xhaka so highly?

Not sure. I may he biased. I might have a man crush on him for some reason. I may go overboard sometimes. It’s primarily due to defending him against unjust criticism as he’s nowhere near as bad as his critics claim. When I’m in a defensive mode I do go OTT, and I tend to stick with my claims.

 

[RunTheTrap]

Not sure. I may he biased. I might have a man crush on him for some reason. I may go overboard sometimes. It’s primarily due to defending him against unjust criticism as he’s nowhere near as bad as his critics claim. When I’m in a defensive mode I do go OTT, and I tend to stick with my claims.

Wow this is the most honest and introspective you've been. As for why you defend Xhaka so much, it's possible it's a case of Stockholm syndrome. It was cool to hate on Xhaka and blame him for everything and then the Palace incident happened and then people felt bad, to which some fans began overcompensating and overrating Xhaka for his good performances. While it's true we didn't lose while he played, context is needed. He's taken us as far as he can but unfortunately for him, he won't be the one taking us to the next level.
Anyways, what are your thoughts in how we create?

 

[Manberg]

Wow this is the most honest and introspective you've been. As for why you defend Xhaka so much, it's possible it's a case of Stockholm syndrome. It was cool to hate on Xhaka and blame him for everything and then the Palace incident happened and then people felt bad, to which some fans began overcompensating and overrating Xhaka for his good performances. While it's true we didn't lose while he played, context is needed. He's taken us as far as he can but unfortunately for him, he won't be the one taking us to the next level.
Anyways, what are your thoughts in how we create?

Not to that extent. I disagree with the bold part. I went over the top when I said stuff such as Bayern and Barcelona would be racing to sign him but I do think he is a quality player who is an important asset to the team. He has some big weaknesses (which I’ve downplayed in my posts) but so do many players and it’s not a huge issue, they can be mitigated.

About Stockholm syndrome... it’s possible I guess. I didn’t hate on him before the incident but I liked him a lot more afterwards.

 

[Taneruit]

Not to that extent. I disagree with the bold part. I went over the top when I said stuff such as Bayern and Barcelona would be racing to sign him but I do think he is a quality player who is an important asset to the team. He has some big weaknesses (which I’ve downplayed in my posts) but so do many players and it’s not a huge issue, they can be mitigated.

About Stockholm syndrome... it’s possible I guess. I didn’t hate on him before the incident but I liked him a lot more afterwards.

I do think Xhaka is going to benefit massively from Partey coming in both to mitigate weaknesses and unlock Xhaka's qualities. In theory the best type of partner for him.

 

[Chaoz_Enigma]

I do think Xhaka is going to benefit massively from Partey coming in both to mitigate weaknesses and unlock Xhaka's qualities. In theory the best type of partner for him.

Do we fit in Ceballos in the midfield with one 6 and two 8s? or Ceballos as 10? I think arteta is phasing out the use of 10s in our system with our CF as more of false 9.

 

[Taneruit]

Do we fit in Ceballos in the midfield with one 6 and two 8s? or Ceballos as 10? I think arteta is phasing out the use of 10s in our system with our CF as more of false 9.

Honestly dunno what Arteta's definite plan will be for lineup or 1st choice midfield.

For the question in general though I said it before, but I think it's gonna be fluid with a lot of rotation. There were hints last year and even more so just in the first few games of the season that Arteta likes to rotate players a lot (for fitness and tactical reasons) and our midfield is prime for that.

Can see Partey, Xhaka, Ceballos and Elneny all getting ample minutes, especially with the congested schedule this season. Partey most likely the most, but even he will get rested.

 

[EmeryCouldnt]

Not sure. I may he biased. I might have a man crush on him for some reason. I may go overboard sometimes. It’s primarily due to defending him against unjust criticism as he’s nowhere near as bad as his critics claim. When I’m in a defensive mode I do go OTT, and I tend to stick with my claims.

So funny because I really think I see myself do this a lot too. I’ll defend something just to moderate the extremism or maybe be antidogma, but then I find myself doubling down on things just because I’m defending them. There has to be a psychological principle to explain that.