• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

Mesut Özil: Think This Might Be It For Me(sut)

Status
Not open for further replies.

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
You are the most bizarre poster on this thread. I can't work out if you're a gimmick account or you actually believe the things you type.
After the FA Cup victory I was in such a benevolent mood that I un-ignored all accounts on my growing ignore list. I felt so good about Arsenal and our fan community. Now that the after glow is slowly diminishing I start questioning my decision. Fact is that some posters here are just really bizarre. That kash guy is clearly one of the worst. I must admit I like the avatar on the account though. I would buy some fruit from that lady for sure... :)
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
lmao you sound like my friend who literally said the same thing today.

Feels like this press dominated meta of football is ruining things. Irked him that Mason Mount gets in the England squad ahead of Grealish for similar reasons.

It is imo as well skill has been sacrificed for athleticism, it’s happened in other sports. with the same complaint.

Good news is the press has come and gone in cycles for decades , don’t know why the press call it modern I am pretty sure the pressing cycle is coming to an end though . Players have much shorter lifespan with this style of play

WithIn next 5 years the no 10 will be back in vogue and sky pundits will be calling it “modern football”
 

Jury

A-M's drunk uncle
The end of the day we will get to an age where our outlook changes quite quickly, and I think Özil arrived at his. He looked at the most important things in life and football got shuffled back imo. Not right to the back, but enough to lose that edge and hunger that you need at this level. I think he could level out in a year or two and he could have a renaissance somewhere else.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
It is imo as well skill has been sacrificed for athleticism, it’s happened in other sports. with the same complaint.

Good news is the press has come and gone in cycles for decades , don’t know why the press call it modern I am pretty sure the pressing cycle is coming to an end though . Players have much shorter lifespan with this style of play

WithIn next 5 years the no 10 will be back in vogue and sky pundits will be calling it “modern football”
Yep. So many myths in football . . the high pressing game is modern tactics, leagues are getting harder to win and footballers are so much fitter now. :lol: The only thing that's changed football in last 30 years is the huge amount of money coming into the game.
 

CaseUteinberger

Established Member

Country: Sweden
Yep. So many myths in football . . the high pressing game is modern tactics, leagues are getting harder to win and footballers are so much fitter now. :lol: The only thing that's changed football in last 30 years is the huge amount of money coming into the game.
Maybe I am missing your point but I think how football is played now to be quite different from in the early 1990s. The average technical ability has just skyrocketed. How compact the teams are set up and played now compared to then. The fouls that were allowed then gave technically poorer players a way to stay in the game. I could go on. The inflow of much more money has had a huge influence but not sure it is at the root of this change but maybe it is. The game itself has changed though and to the better in my view.
 

scytheavatar

Established Member
It is imo as well skill has been sacrificed for athleticism, it’s happened in other sports. with the same complaint.

Good news is the press has come and gone in cycles for decades , don’t know why the press call it modern I am pretty sure the pressing cycle is coming to an end though . Players have much shorter lifespan with this style of play

WithIn next 5 years the no 10 will be back in vogue and sky pundits will be calling it “modern football”

Sports itself is dying, killed by a combination of too much money alienating the fans, and competition from the likes of Fortnite and Pewdiepie. The talent pool in football is getting shallower and shallower every year, I like to say how Yaya Toure is a poor man's Vieira while Pogba is a poor man's Yaya Toure. Meanwhile Pepe, a player that is absolutely Gervinho tier and not better than him in any way, is now some super talent worth 70 million. This is why people should not think football is entitled to exist forever and one day professional sports could very well go the way of dinosaurs.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Maybe I am missing your point but I think how football is played now to be quite different from in the early 1990s. The average technical ability has just skyrocketed. How compact the teams are set up and played now compared to then. The fouls that were allowed then gave technically poorer players a way to stay in the game. I could go on. The inflow of much more money has had a huge influence but not sure it is at the root of this change but maybe it is. The game itself has changed though and to the better in my view.
Tactics have cycled @celestis is correct, there's nothing new here. And what evidence is there that on average footballers are better technically than in the days of Maradona, Cruyff, Pele etc, there were no stats until recently.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Sports itself is dying, killed by a combination of too much money alienating the fans, and competition from the likes of Fortnite and Pewdiepie. The talent pool in football is getting shallower and shallower every year, I like to say how Yaya Toure is a poor man's Vieira while Pogba is a poor man's Yaya Toure. Meanwhile Pepe, a player that is absolutely Gervinho tier and not better than him in any way, is now some super talent worth 70 million. This is why people should not think football is entitled to exist forever and one day professional sports could very well go the way of dinosaurs.
Interesting. You and @CaseUteinberger taking a completely opposite view in the space of a few posts. It seems no one can agree about football.
 

musoke

Active Member
"I don’t know [if Özil regrets his retirement from the national team], but I don’t like his decision. I think it was a mistake. He’s a very nice person and a magnificent footballer — and I’ve seen many players in my life. He is one of the greatest! That’s why it’s a shame."
- Öccult leader Arsène Wenger on Oct 11 2020
Eyes-Wide-Shut-Stanley-Kubrick.-animated-gif-1.gif
Mate, you are stooping yourself into the underworld of FALLACIOUS ARGUMENTs. :lol:

What you did here is what we call “Argumentum ad verecundiam”. Argument from Authority fallacy. Just because wenger said A and B so it must be true. Lol

As I have been saying for a long time. Managers are also humans like us fans. They all have their own subjective interpretations on football matters. They also have their favourite players. I can name other Top class managers that don’t think Özil is great or one of the greatest. So citing wenger as the authority figure does nothing in the face of the evidence.
And wenger has to defend his own big money signing. He is the one that signed Özil so he can’t all of a sudden come out now and say that it was a mistake signing Özil. Isn’t it?

Wenger has always been a Özil fanboy himself and there is no shame in that. But that’s why he let the guy stagnate and become a nuisance to our club. Let the guy do whatever he wished. Preferential treatmeant all the time. Wrapping him in cotton wool 24/7. Kid gloves treatment. Giving into his sickness, illness STUNTS all the time. Not pushing him to make himself better or adapt to the evolving game of football. Basically Wenger let his Özil fanboyism cloud hos judgement on how to deal with Özil.

That is the same stagnant wenger that got us into this mess in the first place by bringing in weak players like Özil with all the other dead weights and not giving them a foundation . Had more than 10 years to sort us out and this is the mess he left the club in before being sacked himself. Remember wenger was gotten rid of because he had become a dinosaur of a manager that also refused to evolve and adapt to the modern game. The same criticism his favourite big money signing (Özil) keeps enduring. And Özil is lucky himself, he would have been sacked long time ago but has his contract to thank. It’s the only thread that has held him up here. Would have followed Gazidis, Wenger, Emery, Raul, Ljumberg out of the sacked door long time ago.

Again, post 2010 wenger is not the strongest person to cite as an authority. He had half a decade to make Özil a great / world class at Arsenal and failed miserably himself.

Hope I properly dissected your the wenger argument from authority fallacy well.

And remember, I used to be one of the original AKBs (Arsène Knows Best). But at the same time I will not let my respect and appreciation for wenger cloud my objectivity towards him.
:)
 

musoke

Active Member
He asked why Özil didn't have as many assists in the second half of that season, and I pointed out that the main CF on the team had a long barren run. That's one of the contributing factors.

Not sure why you're getting so emotional.
Lol
That’s like blaming a customer for not receiving their mail through the post instead of blaming the delivery man / mail man.

Before you can start blaming a striker then why not look at the people behind him? The midfielders like Özil that are meant to deliver him good service / chances for him to score? No?

It’s exactly the same catchphrase that you Özil fans have been using to cover for Özil underwhelming performances throughout his time here. “But but, look at the players around Özil. Look at the quality of player behind Özil (Xhaka, Ramsey, Elneny, Flamini, Cazorla etc), they are not world class like those he had a Madrid or in the German national team. They can’t get the ball to Özil. They can’t cover for his defensive and his out of possession fragility’s etc in order to allow him the freedom to do what he does best (Disappear when the going gets tough :lol:). Lol
But you get my gist.

That’s the same tactic I am trying to use to defend Giroud in this scenario.
And remember the same Özil has had Auba and Laca for 3 seasons but we’ve never seen his assists stats going up, they just seem to keep getting even worse each season.

May be we should now start blaming Auba and Laca for being worse than Giroud.

Right?
 

musoke

Active Member
We all watched these games in pain, what you talking about? chances were being created for Giroud who was firing blanks. We all watched his with our eyes. Özil was putting chances on a plate.

It wasn’t even the fault of Giroud, the club should’ve signed Higuain.
Can you please cite these games in the second half of the 2015/16 season where Özil was putting chances on the plate for Giroud and Giroud missing them?
I must have missed these games we all watched in pain.

Just cite about 3 games in that period and I will go and rewatch them.

And on the bold Higuain talk. You know that if the club had signed Higuain then there would be no Özil at Arsenal. We ended up with Özil because we messed up on thr Higuain / Suarez deal. Isn’t it?

You don’t want to think about that scenario do you? Having Higuain instead of your cult hero (Özil).
What a conundrum.
Heads exploding now. :frustrated::lol:
 
Last edited:

Kav

Established Member
Lol
That’s like blaming a customer for not receiving their mail through the post instead of blaming the delivery man / mail man.

Before you can start blaming a striker then why not look at the people behind him? The midfielders like Özil that are meant to deliver him good service / chances for him to score? No?

It’s exactly the same catchphrase that you Özil fans have been using to cover for Özil underwhelming performances throughout his time here. “But but, look at the players around Özil. Look at the quality of player behind Özil (Xhaka, Ramsey, Elneny, Flamini, Cazorla etc), they are not world class like those he had a Madrid or in the German national team. They can’t get the ball to Özil. They can’t cover for his defensive and his out of possession fragility’s etc in order to allow him the freedom to do what he does best (Disappear when the going gets tough :lol:). Lol
But you get my gist.

That’s the same tactic I am trying to use to defend Giroud in this scenario.
And remember the same Özil has had Auba and Laca for 3 seasons but we’ve never seen his assists stats going up, they just seem to keep getting even worse each season.

May be we should now start blaming Auba and Laca for being worse than Giroud.

Right?

You must be having a laugh, you can not in all seriousness be defending the joke of a finisher called Giroud. His hold up and link play was very good but the man missed so many chances. :rofl:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom