Mesut Özil: Think This Might Be It For Me(sut)

[Oh_Snap]

As an aside, did anyone see the recent Wenger interview where he pointed out that we are reaching the limits of what we can do to improve players physically and that in his opinion the next step will be to look at the neurology of players and to try to train their brains to make decisions quicker and better. I thought that was fascinating.

There's still some stuff physically that is overlooked. Mertesacker was doing this himself, he knew he was clumsy so he tried to optimize, what he could optimize - his eyes:

"On my right side my timing was super but I had the feeling my left eye was not really up for it. Why was that? And was it possible to train and improve [the left eye] so that I didn’t have to turn my whole body in order to look left? It all meant that in 50% of the times the ball came towards me my brain said: “Hey, I can’t really see that ball so I’m not going to jump for it.
And as my left eye was not really looking at the ball I was always twisting my neck to use my dominant right eye.

Football doesn’t really deal with those things, despite the fact they can be decisive. Players would rather lift weights, stand on their own with their dumbbells – but how does that help me on the pitch?

During the exercises with Lars one could see quite clearly that my eyes were moving differently when an object was approaching me. My left eye always remained in the middle rather than focusing on the object.

He showed me how to make my left eye stronger. I had a patch on my right eye, forcing my left eye to focus on the objects. And after a few weeks I could really notice the difference in games. If there was a high ball from the left I had a much better feeling for where it would end up."

From https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tesacker-book-extract-arsenal-academy-manager

Good to know he is still with us.

 

[celestis]

Nobody in Europe can defend, teams or players. Maybe the game is a harder, in the old days wide players would attack the full back but now wide players are making central runs, a CB today isn’t just marking a more or less static striker.

If people think the real Ronaldo , Romario , Maradona , Henry , Bergkamp wouldn’t be head and shoulders above everyone in this league is folly.

I can understand if people watched the English league in the early 90s late 80s when they talk about horrible technical level, English football went backward to the dark ages thanks to the ban on Eng clubs,

Best league in the World back then was the Italian and Spain’s by a fair way. Not only was the technical level high , you had defenders of the highest order. Not to mention pitches were nowhere near and refs adjudicated to different standards.

 

[Football Manager]

2:36
3:43

 

[CaseUteinberger]

2:36
3:43

The good old days! But to be honest the pitches were absolute rubbish at that time. The ball probably also weighed about 10 pounds when wet...

 

[razörist]

There's still some stuff physically that is overlooked. Mertesacker was doing this himself, he knew he was clumsy so he tried to optimize, what he could optimize - his eyes:

"On my right side my timing was super but I had the feeling my left eye was not really up for it. Why was that? And was it possible to train and improve [the left eye] so that I didn’t have to turn my whole body in order to look left? It all meant that in 50% of the times the ball came towards me my brain said: “Hey, I can’t really see that ball so I’m not going to jump for it.
And as my left eye was not really looking at the ball I was always twisting my neck to use my dominant right eye.

Football doesn’t really deal with those things, despite the fact they can be decisive. Players would rather lift weights, stand on their own with their dumbbells – but how does that help me on the pitch?

During the exercises with Lars one could see quite clearly that my eyes were moving differently when an object was approaching me. My left eye always remained in the middle rather than focusing on the object.

He showed me how to make my left eye stronger. I had a patch on my right eye, forcing my left eye to focus on the objects. And after a few weeks I could really notice the difference in games. If there was a high ball from the left I had a much better feeling for where it would end up."

From https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...tesacker-book-extract-arsenal-academy-manager

Good to know he is still with us.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Personally I really think that nostalgia is what makes us put a lot of these older players on a pedestal. I think we all have a special fondness for you players we grew up idolizing.

Like there's no point me wondering if my hero Dennis Bergkamp would be the same level of player today as he was then, because if he came through now, he'd be a different player. He'd be a DB10 accustomed to what's needed to be successful in the game in 2020, rather than his era.

Great players from yesteryear were as naturally talented as the great players today, no doubt. As they were though they couldn't cope with the pace and intensity of football today, not to mention the advances in sports science etc and better lifestyle footballers tend to live today.
These small things matter, a lot.

Factors outside of natural ability are what makes todays players generally better than previous generations.

In 20 years time we'll all be harking on about how the players of today couldn't hold a candle to the stars of 2020. It's just human nature to look on the past more fondly than the current.

 

[Oxeki]

If Henry or R9 was given the same training regime and nutrition as players of today, they'd be just as deadly as they were if not more deadly.

Talents can't be taught. But you could train a player to peak physical condition.
So, it's irrelevant to suggest if players of past era are better than this era.

A Ronaldinho who didn't drink and took care of his body would probably have been better than Messi and Ronaldo but we might never know.

 

[Riou]

Personally I really think that nostalgia is what makes us put a lot of these older players on a pedestal. I think we all have a special fondness for you players we grew up idolizing.

Like there's no point me wondering if my hero Dennis Bergkamp would be the same level of player today as he was then, because if he came through now, he'd be a different player. He'd be a DB10 accustomed to what's needed to be successful in the game in 2020, rather than his era.

Great players from yesteryear were as naturally talented as the great players today, no doubt. As they were though they couldn't cope with the pace and intensity of football today, not to mention the advances in sports science etc and better lifestyle footballers tend to live today.
These small things matter, a lot.

Factors outside of natural ability are what makes todays players generally better than previous generations.

In 20 years time we'll all be harking on about how the players of today couldn't hold a candle to the stars of 2020. It's just human nature to look on the past more fondly than the current.

Modern football has improved stamina to no end, but I don't think it's fun to watch plyers press for 90 mins, it should be about skill...makes me think of this...

...football should be an art...art in attacking, art in defending...players are basically running machines now, kinda lame for me.

 

[Fewtch]

Mate, you are stooping yourself into the underworld of FALLACIOUS ARGUMENTs.

What you did here is what we call “Argumentum ad verecundiam”. Argument from Authority fallacy. Just because wenger said A and B so it must be true. Lol

As I have been saying for a long time. Managers are also humans like us fans. They all have their own subjective interpretations on football matters. They also have their favourite players. I can name other Top class managers that don’t think Özil is great or one of the greatest. So citing wenger as the authority figure does nothing in the face of the evidence.
And wenger has to defend his own big money signing. He is the one that signed Özil so he can’t all of a sudden come out now and say that it was a mistake signing Özil. Isn’t it?

Wenger has always been a Özil fanboy himself and there is no shame in that. But that’s why he let the guy stagnate and become a nuisance to our club. Let the guy do whatever he wished. Preferential treatmeant all the time. Wrapping him in cotton wool 24/7. Kid gloves treatment. Giving into his sickness, illness STUNTS all the time. Not pushing him to make himself better or adapt to the evolving game of football. Basically Wenger let his Özil fanboyism cloud hos judgement on how to deal with Özil.

That is the same stagnant wenger that got us into this mess in the first place by bringing in weak players like Özil with all the other dead weights and not giving them a foundation . Had more than 10 years to sort us out and this is the mess he left the club in before being sacked himself. Remember wenger was gotten rid of because he had become a dinosaur of a manager that also refused to evolve and adapt to the modern game. The same criticism his favourite big money signing (Özil) keeps enduring. And Özil is lucky himself, he would have been sacked long time ago but has his contract to thank. It’s the only thread that has held him up here. Would have followed Gazidis, Wenger, Emery, Raul, Ljumberg out of the sacked door long time ago.

Again, post 2010 wenger is not the strongest person to cite as an authority. He had half a decade to make Özil a great / world class at Arsenal and failed miserably himself.

Hope I properly dissected your the wenger argument from authority fallacy well.

And remember, I used to be one of the original AKBs (Arsène Knows Best). But at the same time I will not let my respect and appreciation for wenger cloud my objectivity towards him.

This fallacy only applies when speaking of certain players it seems. Funny how that works lol

I have said it many times.
Xhaka is like He Jordan Henderson at Liverpool.
We fans have always made fun and not rated him. Even Fergie made fun of his body posture. Saying how his legs are awkward and the way he runs is weird. will never buy him..”. Lol
But manager after manager that has taken over at Liverpool seem to have gotten to know the guy and trusted him.

That is the same with Xhaka. We keep pulling our hairs out as fans asking why managers rate him. But Wenger, Emery m, Ljumberg, Arteta etc all seem to rate him. While hyped up so called world class fans favourites like like Özil are frozen out consistently.
Weird.

Here’s a different öccultist who decided to put him in their all time coached XI. Another case of a manager defending their precious big signing? Maybe Mou is just another Özil fanboy who did everything to make life easy for him.

Besides, we all know you guys would cream yourselves if Wenger said negative things about him, let’s not pretend otherwise. Not sure who convinced all you obsessive haters that you’re some sort of beacon of objectivity. You have about 3 posts outside this thread ffs, you’re about as objective as a Sp**s fan on all things concerning AFC.

 

[razörist]

If Henry or R9 was given the same training regime and nutrition as players of today, they'd be just as deadly as they were if not more deadly.

Talents can't be taught. But you could train a player to peak physical condition.
So, it's irrelevant to suggest if players of past era are better than this era.

A Ronaldinho who didn't drink and took care of his body would probably have been better than Messi and Ronaldo but we might never know.

Wish R9 could stay fit, I watched him as a kid when he played in netherlands...my god.... he’s was like created in a lab, perfect

 

[Riou]

Wish R9 could stay fit, I watched him as a kid when he played in netherlands...my god.... he’s was like created in a lab, perfect

I always thought you were no older than about 20, don't know why

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Modern football has improved stamina to no end, but I don't think it's fun to watch plyers press for 90 mins, it should be about skill...makes me think of this...

...football should be an art...art in attacking, art in defending...players are basically running machines now, kinda lame for me.

I don't disagree with you to be honest. I appreciate the talent and physical stamina that today's game has elevated itself to.

A lot of the individuality seems to be have lost in football though, so it's a trade off. I've always loved my mercurial flair players that wouldn't be caught dead tracking back. I think the game as a spectacle is poorer without them. Like, you'd never get a Matt Le Tissier at the top level these days .

 

[Makingtrax]

Great players from yesteryear were as naturally talented as the great players today, no doubt. As they were though they couldn't cope with the pace and intensity of football today, not to mention the advances in sports science etc and better lifestyle footballers tend to live today.
These small things matter, a lot.

Yeah, but do they matter a lot? Here in Britain Seb Coe, coached by his dad on 70s thinking, ran the 800 metres world record in 1m 41s. Today 40 years later with modern scientific training, nutrition and new technological aids its only a second faster.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Yeah, but do they matter a lot? Here in Britain Seb Coe, coached by his dad on 70s thinking, ran the 800 metres world record in 1m 41s. Today 40 years later with modern scientific training, nutrition and new technological aids its only a second faster.

I'm from the UK too To be fair, a 1.2 second difference in the world record from Seb's day to now is quite a margin of improvement considering the race is only 100 seconds or so long.

If you google the list of World Records in Athletics, out of the 42 events, only 2 world records stand from the 80's, The Discus and Javelin, both by East Germans, which given their record with doping makes their world records highly dubious.

In comparison 6 new world records have been set this year alone even with all the Coronavirus stuff going on.

 

[Football Manager]

Modern football has improved stamina to no end, but I don't think it's fun to watch plyers press for 90 mins, it should be about skill...makes me think of this...

...football should be an art...art in attacking, art in defending...players are basically running machines now, kinda lame for me.

If you look at Guardiola’s Barcelona, Bayern, City. They might be machine, but their players are all extremely technically gifted too. Do we not have skillful dribbler in modern football? We do have a lot of them, it’s just that they also runs a lot.

 

[razörist]

I always thought you were no older than about 20, don't know why

Thanks, I take good care of my skin.

 

[Aubamagoal]

What do Mourinho and Wenger even know to rate Özil? Have they ever even won anything?

 

[squallman]

I don't see how we can compare the stars of the 70s and 80s to today.

For all the talk about how drunk and unfit they all were back then compared to the physical specimens we have now. They would all be on the same fitness programs today. If they could do what they did, pissed to the eyeballs, imagine what they'd be like in the modern game.

Moreover, I think personal responsibility comes into it. Look at how unfit Rooney was every offseason when he was playing for the biggest club in world football, during their most successful period. How many players have been caught with a cigarette in their mouth in public? Lord knows what they do behind closed doors. Messi famously isn't the most strict with his diet. Yet, Rooney was pretty amazing for a while there.

 

[Rimaal]

Aah, I see we're taking a stroll down memory tunnel. Careful! There's no light at the end of that one, just a dead end.

 

[Football Manager]

What do Mourinho and Wenger even know to rate Özil? Have they ever even won anything?

He is a great final passer. I’m not going to doubt that. I rate this part of his game as much as wenger and mourinho. And they certainly rate him because of this ability.

However, Özil has a lot of weaknesses that makes him an inconsistent player.

1) He doesn’t like to have the ball much/doesn’t want to involved a lot in the general play. Unlike other attacking midfielders, he doesn’t create supply for others. He need supply from others so that he can make his final pass. For this reason he looked very uninvolved in games, unless he has the chance to make those final passes. This lack of involvement in general play really hurt our possession game.

2) He doesn’t do much defensively

3) He can’t take on players/dribble past defenders like other attacking midfielders to create play for others.

In Madrid, all other players are :

1) good with general play (they have Benzema who will always drop deeper to help their build up, instead of a auba type who detached himself from the general play), so just have one uninvolved player like Özil is fine.

2) they are all pretty good at tracking back and defending, which covers for Özil weaknesses in this area.

3) they have the world top dribblers and skills masters to break opponent defence. Özil could just let others to do what he couldn’t.

In Madrid, he can just focus on making the final pass, which is the only thing he is good at.

At Arsenal, his weaknesses are exposed and he is inconsistent. Because if he gets no supply, he wouldn’t make his own supply. He couldn’t dribble his way out. So he did look invisible in quite a lot of games.