Martin Ødegaard

[MikelHadADream]

I saw three badly misplaced passes in CM against Palace that could have resulted in deadly counters against us by better teams. He was noted for his defensive work. On two occasions that was cleaning up the mess he allowed in CM.

Against Newcastle on paper his pass completion stats looked good, but so do Elneny’s stats on completion. Around five extremely poor passes forwards which were horrendously weighted, in contrast to passing by Partey.

That’s why I am saying what I am. Objectively, based on observations. On the flip side I think some just see journos waxing lyrical over him calling him “superb” without attention to detail with their observations (as opposed to stats).

As others have said we need an upgrade to help us with better progression and dynamism through CM. We can’t just be over-reliant on Tierney and a couple of others to impose ourselves on opposing teams.

How about the times he made vital tackles to stop counters, he was basically a one man midfield that match. I don't pay that much attention to stats, from what I've seen he's been very good the last few weeks. Outstanding against Chelsea, good against West Brom, turned the match against Newcastle in the cup, with a very good pass to Tierney in the build up to the second goal. I give him criticism when he doesn't play well, but he's been fine recently.

Partey is a world class player, there is no point comparing the two. We also won't get a player of the same quality to play next to him if that's what people are expecting.

Progressing the ball up the pitch is all well and good, but if you don't have the difference makers up top, especially at a club like Arsenal, you basically have no chance.

Auba/Lacazette/Pepe/Saka/Martinelli/ESR/Eddir is not a good enough group of forward players to get us competing at the top again, when you compare that to what the other clubs have.

 

[MikelHadADream]

For once someone understands that Xhaka is not our main problem in the squad. The problem is that he is a clear starter.

We have two Real loanees in CMF & AMF. We need to buy in those positions in the future.

Xhaka needs a new contract imo, but he has to agree to Arteta's management, that he won't get a clear starting position, but has to battle.

After the contract, we buy a starting player to CMF. Then we can sell him if necessary, he has some value always.

Yeah I'd be fine with this. In the long run of course you want a better player next to Partey, but not before we sort out our attack.

 

[gunner4lyfe]

For once someone understands that Xhaka is not our main problem in the squad. The problem is that he is a clear starter.

We have two Real loanees in CMF & AMF. We need to buy in those positions in the future.

Xhaka needs a new contract imo, but he has to agree to Arteta's management, that he won't get a clear starting position, but has to battle.

After the contract, we buy a starting player to CMF. Then we can sell him if necessary, he has some value always.

We were bantered by frikkin Augsburg. Lol. We sell in the summer or we'll end up losing him for free.

 

[MikelHadADream]

Yeah we need better than that. We need a midfielder to create that opportunity by being more mobile.

I agree. But we also need a wide player that can get 15 odd goals in the league. A center forward that occupies CB's, make good runs, holds the ball up and scores goals, as well as a player that can play between the lines and provide assists.

Those three players are more important that a Xhaka upgrade at this stage.

 

[Iceman10]

How about the times he made vital tackles to stop counters, he was basically a one man midfield that match. I don't pay that much attention to stats, from what I've seen he's been very good the last few weeks. Outstanding against Chelsea, good against West Brom, turned the match against Newcastle in the cup, with a very good pass to Tierney in the build up to the second goal. I give him criticism when he doesn't play well, but he's been fine recently.

Partey is a world class player, there is no point comparing the two. We also won't get a player of the same quality to play next to him if that's what people are expecting.

Progressing the ball up the pitch is all well and good, but if you don't have the difference makers up top, especially at a club like Arsenal, you basically have no chance.

Auba/Lacazette/Pepe/Saka/Martinelli/ESR/Eddir is not a good enough group of forward players to get us competing at the top again, when you compare that to what the other clubs have.

You’re basically saying settle for Xhaka while admitting he is not “world class” unlike Partey while saying we can’t find a better player. I disagree, and would be happy with Bissouma for example. I’m not saying Bissouma is necessarily “world class” yet, but I see him as an upgrade for what we need in the pivot. As per @drippin I don’t know how much time is on Xhaka’s contract, so won’t talk to his point on that, but I don’t want Xhaka as first choice next season.

When you say we won’t find a better alternative to Xhaka though I think you are skewing your point on that somewhat because you want to upgrade attack first. We will bring in a CAM/AM this summer whether it is Ødegaard or someone else. For my point we likely will need an addition to make up for Ceballos’s end of loan anyway, at minimum. You seem to want an upgrade on CF. That is something I will mull over, although I would like to assess where Martinelli is at come the end of the season.

 

[MikelHadADream]

You’re basically saying settle for Xhaka while admitting he is not “world class” unlike Partey while saying we can’t find a better player. I disagree, and would be happy with Bissouma for example. As per


You’re basically saying settle for Xhaka while admitting he is not “world class” unlike Partey while saying we can’t find a better player. I disagree, and would be happy with Bissouma for example. As per @drippin I don’t know how much time is on his contract, so won’t talk to his point on that, but I don’t want him as first choice.

When you say we won’t find a better alternative to Xhaka though I think you are skewing your point on that somewhat because you want to upgrade attack first. We will bring in a CAM/AM this summer whether it is Ødegaard or someone else. For my point we likely will need an addition to make up for Ceballos’s end of loan anyway, at minimum. You seem to want an upgrade on CF. That is something I will mill over, although I would like to assess where Martinelli is at come the end of the season.

I'm not saying that at all? And I haven't said we can't upgrade on Xhaka, I can name quite a few players who I think would be better than him.

What I'm saying is that upgrading him shouldn't take priority over sorting out the CF/AM/Winger positions. We can't sign players in those positions as well as upgrade on Xhaka in one window. To be honest I'd also rather upgrade at RB before we look at Xhaka's position.

 

[Iceman10]

I'm not saying that at all? And I haven't said we can't upgrade on Xhaka, I can name quite a few players who I think would be better than

OK, it is just crossed wires on this:

Partey is a world class player, there is no point comparing the two. We also won't get a player of the same quality to play next to him if that's what people are expecting.

I just think it was just an unnecessary point to make it seem getting an upgrade was unrealistic when the real point you were making was you wanted focus on attack first. Cool

 

[MikelHadADream]

OK, it is just crossed wires on this. I think it was just an unnecessary point to make it seem getting an upgrade was unrealistic when the real point you were making was you wanted focus on attack first. Cool.

I'm not sure how that statement suggests we can't get an upgrade on Xhaka. It just states we won't get someone as good as Partey, a top 3 DM in the world, to play along side him in midfield. I think that is a reasonable comment to make, not that we can't upgrade at all.

But yeah that is the point I am making.

 

[drippin]

The problem is that Ceballos is a bit better than Xhaka currently. He is a loanee. Elneny is worse than Xhaka, and we have seen his very bad mistakes in recent games again, while not providing much otherwise.

For clarification, Elneny has 1,5 years in contract, Xhaka has 2,5 years.

So we need to buy a CMF. We also need a great AMF possibly like Ødegaard. He is also a loanee.

This will take something like 70+ million (a conservative estimate) from our transfer funds in this climate. After that we can assess other positions. Renewing Xhaka makes sense to me.

Selling Laca & getting Edouard for not so much more will also make sense to me. But no one can know if Edouard is an instant upgrade.

 

[Iceman10]

I'm not sure how that statement suggests we can't get an upgrade on Xhaka. It just states we won't get someone as good as Partey, a top 3 DM in the world, to play along side him in midfield. I think that is a reasonable comment to make, not that we can't upgrade at all.

But yeah that is the point I am making.

Part of it here is a difference on the CM pivot. Myself, and most others here at A-M see Partey as a b2b. We aren’t looking for another Partey. We are looking for someone who would provide a defensive platform to support Partey and the attacking unit while also being better than Xhaka with ball progression and dynamism through the centre of the park.

 

[MikelHadADream]

The problem is that Ceballos is a bit better than Xhaka currently. He is a loanee. Elneny is worse than Xhaka, and we have seen his very bad mistakes in recent games again, while not providing much otherwise.

For clarification, Elneny has 1,5 years in contract, Xhaka has 2,5 years.

So we need to buy a CMF. We also need a great AMF possibly like Ødegaard. He is also a loanee.

This will take something like 70+ million from our transfer funds in this climate. After that we can assess other positions. Renewing Xhaka makes sense to me.

Selling Laca & getting Edouard for not so much more will also make sense to me.

Xhaka is a lot better than Ceballos for me, but yeah you make a good point. Ceballos is gone next year, and Torreira/Guendouzi won't feature under Arteta.

I suppose it all depends on how money we have. The squad balance is an absolute mess.

 

[drippin]

Xhaka is a lot better than Ceballos for me, but yeah you make a good point. Ceballos is gone next year, and Torreira/Guendouzi won't feature under Arteta.

I suppose it all depends on how money we have. The squad balance is an absolute mess.

Yeah it can be debated. But I'm going with the stats we talked about in Xhaka thread vs Ceballos in Premier League homepage.

There isn't a big difference. And Xhaka is our player, so renewing is not costly vs buying a similar player. In addition he hasn't shown some extraordinary performances to demand a big raise or something.

I hope he can be content with being a squaddie here. That's the level we should be going for.

 

[MikelHadADream]

Part of it here is a difference on the CM pivot. Myself, and most others here at A-M see Partey as a b2b. We aren’t looking for another Partey. We are looking for someone who would provide a defensive platform to support Partey and the attacking unit while also being better than Xhaka with ball progression and dynamism through the centre of the park.

Interesting. See I'm off the opposite opinion. For me Partey does all of his best work behind the ball. You want him collecting the ball off the CBs and initating attacks rather than him recieving the ball higher up the pitch. I suppose it depends on what formation we play. In a 433, I see Partey as the lone pivot, and can't see him as one of the advanced 8s.

In a 4231, there is a bit more flexibility as to who plays next to and infront of him.

 

[Riou]

Guys, it's obvious...Partey-Arteta double pivot...Mikel isn't a loanee like Dani and he is still probably faster than Xhaka...Champions League guaranteed next season!

Plus even if it goes wrong, it would be funny to see Mikel the manager, throw Mikel the player under the bus

 

[MikelHadADream]

Eduardo Hagn willed himself into a transfer journalist and is now being tagged by fan accounts.

Somewhere in London, Dire Square sits alone with his 15 different accounts thinking "So, all I had to do was to be shirtless all the time?"

Dire Square lmao. Sometimes have a look at his tweets for a laugh, the bloke is mentally deranged. Wonder if he's ever had an account on here...

 

[El Duderino]

Dire Square lmao. Sometimes have a look at his tweets for a laugh, the bloke is mentally deranged. Wonder if he's ever had an account on here...

He has and still posts, not that hard to know who he is.

 

[MikelHadADream]

He has and still posts, not that hard to know who he is.

I have a vague idea .

 

[Rasmi]

Lack of option is annoying and what is even more so annoying is how does Edu & Arteta conclude that Szoboszlai cannot be trusted to make an immediate impact but I'm assuming Ødegaard is? Where's the sense in that?

Ødegaard is much bigger talent

 

[Iceman10]

Yeah it can be debated. But I'm going with the stats we talked about in Xhaka thread vs Ceballos in Premier League homepage.

There isn't a big difference. And Xhaka is our player, so renewing is not costly vs buying a similar player. In addition he hasn't shown some extraordinary performances to demand a big raise or something.

I hope he can be content with being a squaddie here. That's the level we should be going for.

Thanks for the info. that he has 2.5 years on his contract. I guess the test will come if we get what we want for an upgrade and will have until Jan of next season to see if he is ok in the dressing room as a squaddie and indeed if he is fine to renew knowing he has been relegated to squaddie. His value won’t change much between now and Jan ‘22 anyway as it is probably around 15-20m currently, esp. in this Covid market.

 

[Iceman10]

Ødegaard is much bigger talent

Was confused a bit on that because I didn’t know we had first shot at Szoboszlai over Leipzig? I see he had a RC but even with RC’s the player and agents have to come to agreement with buying clubs, and I don’t think any of us know the details on all of that.