• ! ! ! IMPORTANT MESSAGE ! ! !

    Discussions about police investigations

    In light of recent developments about a player from Premier League being arrested and until there is an official announcement, ALL users should refrain from discussing or speculating about situations around personal off-pitch matters related to any Arsenal player. This is to protect you and the forum.

    Users who disregard this reminder will be issued warnings and their posts will get deleted from public.

English Fighting Spirit

jeromelee

Well-Known Member
Had a rather indepth discussion with 2 fellow gooners about the chelski match and how we lost.

At first all the usual angles were looked at. The strategy, the subs etc. But somehow we all seemed to agree that Arsenal lost because of the lack of english players that day. True we had sol and cole at the back, and that's why our defense did indeed look solid.

I know we've got some great players in Paddy, Titi, Pires, Reyes, etc but there's no longer enough English players in the squad. All players in Arsenal are great but it's a well known fact that English players have the most heart. Ask any football enthusiast from way back (those whose been football fanatics since the 60's etc) and they will tell you that the English players while some are really skillful, most play purely from the heart. It is the English passion that lends strength to the English game.

I mean, look at Sol and Cole. They played with heart. Never giving up. Running non-stop all night. Same with Parlour when he's in the game. Parlour is by no means a "flair" player unlike Paddy or Pires but what he contributes is passion. Never giving up any challenge, never slowing down even if he losses the ball etc.

I think AW has done a great job with the team so far. Fantastic beyond expectations. But I also believe he really needs to groom more England youngsters to try to ingrain into the team. When MU started being great, it was from the youngsters like the neville's, butt, beckham, scholes.

Even against chelsea in the CL, I personally felt the best players for chelskis that night was Lampard and Terry. Terry single handledly thwarted so many of our balls into the penalty area. And Lampard although not as skillful as Paddy, showed tonnes of heart. Just look at the replay of the Chelski v Gooner game. Cole, Sol, Terry and Lampard really stood out by their non-stop running and full commitment. And even when Joe Cole came in you could see his full commitment.

Dun get me wrong, of course I'm not suggesting that foreign players aren't good. Dun flame me or anything cause I'm not particularly criticizing the team or anything like that. I'm just saying that there must be balance in the team. After all, this is called the English Premier League. You want to get the fans into the game? Field a couple more young English players. They always play with heart and they always bring out the best in the fans. Nobody can sit through a match, watching their fellow countryman running his pants off and not cheer the hell for his team.

I think Arsenal could do with a little more English power. Someone that can dig deep and find the reserve strength when they're really tired and down in the dumps to pick up their game and run at their opponents.

Makes sense?
 

Aussie

Established Member
Players with the never give up attitude. I belive the best players in the world are the ones who just get the job done without any fancy tricks.
 

raymond

Member
Hey, I thought it was the Russian fighting spirit that gave Chelsea the advantage. At least that's what Abramovich said.

Frankly, I think this kind of post is stupid, and a little offensive, even though I know you weren't trying to be. Do you think Vieira wasn't giving his all? How about Kolo? What about the other Champions League upsets this week? Deportivo came back from a 4-1 deficit against the holders! And those famously gutless Frenchmen came back from two goals down against the Galacticos, too. No nation has a monopoly on heart and commitment. But every nation wants to pretend it does.

I would say this game was more a case of running out of energy, rather than not wanting it enough. Our starting 11 have played many more matches than Chelsea's this season and just had an exhausting, physical Cup clash. For a fair test, look back at the Premiership and FA Cup matches with Chelsea, which were all huge games too. Lampard was practically invisible, and I don't think Joe Cole contributed much either. That proves it's not the nationality that matters, but the ability and character of the individual players and the spirit in the team. And if you're a follower of Arsène Wenger's Arsenal, that's something you shouldn't ever forget.
 

KingReyes

Established Member
I just don't understand what people on this forum mean by English fighting spirit? We've played Chelsea 5 times this season winning 3 and drawing one! Does that mean we had English spirit back for those games but not on Tuesday??

Previous CL Winners..like Milan, Real, Bayern Munich! Where is there "English" fighting spirit?? They didn't have english players on their teams.

I will agree that team spirit is a factor in winning trophies but I don't believe it has to be "English" nor do I believe that Arsenal don't have it.
 

KingReyes

Established Member
Deportivo came back from a 4-1 deficit to beat Milan 4-0 and go through. Did they need "English" fighting spirit for that? I doubt it...no english players.
 

Aussie

Established Member
SuperBob said:
Henry needs too learn a thing or two about english fighting spirit.

Bugger off. He didnt have the greatest of games but his dertermination cant be questioned. Just cause someone didnt play well dosent mean they were not trying.
 

sienna

Active Member
Since when is fighting spirit equated with being English? That's utterly ridiculous. As Raymond pointed out we ran out of steam. We were tired and Chelski were fresher than us; they were able to rotate their players due to their bigger squad.
 

SuperBob

Active Member
Standing around? Look at Reyes!!! why can't Henry do that? Henry makes 2 full sprints too catch the defenders in the whole game he goes full speed. Why can't he go abit slower save his energy and do it more often?
For example like Reyes!
 

Legend#1

Established Member
SuperBob said:
Standing around? Look at Reyes!!! why can't Henry do that? Henry makes 2 full sprints too catch the defenders in the whole game he goes full speed. Why can't he go abit slower save his energy and do it more often?
For example like Reyes!
Since he was carrying a back injury that's very harsh, mif you've ever played with a back strain it can hurt very bad while running at top speed, he wasn't 100% so leave him

All season Henry has done it for the Arsenal

Reyes was magnificent though, what a buy!
 

Olofski

Active Member
Please get off your high horses, if the English fighting spirit is so superior how come your national team can´t win anything, they´re 100% English wich by your way of resoneing would mean 100% fighting spirit.
 

Legend#1

Established Member
We missed someone like Parlour or Keown

Someone who would get vocal, get the teams morale up, get the crowd behind them, run around like a headless chicken, get stuck in

That's what we missed
 

lewdikris

Established Member
Complete toss. Virtually every player whose most embodied this fighting spirit in the last thirty years has not been English. And at the core of every successful English team has been non-English players.

For example:

The great Man U teams : most important players, Roy Keane, Peter Schmeichel, Eric Cantona. Whatever the merits of the Beckham-generation, those three have been their most important players.

The great Liverpool teams of the 70s and 80s: most important players, Dalglish, Souness, Hansen, Lawrenson, Rush. Not an Englishman amongst them.

Leeds: Billy Bremner. Scottish.

And as for the managers - virtually all Celtic. And now French.

It's complete bollocks to say English fighting spirit ever wins **** - it just means honourable defeat, as England's international failures have constantly and painfully shown.

Trust me, as an Englishman that pisses me off, but it's true. Get over it.
 

beaney

Active Member
What about the other Champions League upsets this week? Deportivo came back from a 4-1 deficit against the holders! And those famously gutless Frenchmen came back from two goals down against the Galacticos, too. No nation has a monopoly on heart and commitment. But every nation wants to pretend it does.
yes but they were playing for a french team. that may be what they mean.
i dont neccisarilly agree with what is being said here, but i think that whats basically trying to be said, in terms of the fact we need english players, is this:

Maybe they 'care' more for the team than perhaps the foreign players do, cos they are english, the passion is easier to instill in a team of your home country than it is that of a foreign one???

as i say, i dont know, and im not saying i agree, just trying to understand.
 

KingReyes

Established Member
beaney said:
What about the other Champions League upsets this week? Deportivo came back from a 4-1 deficit against the holders! And those famously gutless Frenchmen came back from two goals down against the Galacticos, too. No nation has a monopoly on heart and commitment. But every nation wants to pretend it does.
yes but they were playing for a french team. that may be what they mean.
i dont neccisarilly agree with what is being said here, but i think that whats basically trying to be said, in terms of the fact we need english players, is this:

Maybe they 'care' more for the team than perhaps the foreign players do, cos they are english, the passion is easier to instill in a team of your home country than it is that of a foreign one???

as i say, i dont know, and im not saying i agree, just trying to understand.

Who said Monaco are all french players!
F.Roma,Prso,Ed Cisse,Plasil, Nonda, Gallardo, and the big one..Morientes!
Who is on loan from Real and scored!

I'm sorry but this is just silly! Fighting spirit doesn't need to be "English", "French", "Iraqi" or whatever.. Fighting spirit comes within the whole team and fighting for each other. And that grows in time. We have it at Arsenal, its just that on Tuesday Chelsea were the better side and not because they have english players with english spirit.
 

kluivert

Member
ok lets re-phrase this then" English never say die mentality"
You're right by the way!


& I'm not convinced about the captaincy either, from day one !We haven't kept a clean sheet for a while; i remember Tony, apart from shouting & beeing in your face, used to moan when we were winning 3-1 ones: CUZ WE CONCEDEED A GOAL!!!Thats the kinda captain we need!!Viera one of top 3 mdfld in europe but sorry, no captain i'm afraid!Give it to Sol& in 4/5 years to Ash or Toure
 

Split

Active Member
It doesn't matter about the nationality, but we need a vocal leader on the pitch, who can gee up the troops when it's going against us, someone who can keep us together and keep our composure, give us that extra injection of adreline and drive, someone to give us a kick up the arse when we're faltering. Someone like Tony Adams!!!
 

Split

Active Member
kluivert said:
ok lets re-phrase this then" English never say die mentality"
You're right by the way!


& I'm not convinced about the captaincy either, from day one !We haven't kept a clean sheet for a while; i remember Tony, apart from shouting & beeing in your face, used to moan when we were winning 3-1 ones: CUZ WE CONCEDEED A GOAL!!!Thats the kinda captain we need!!Viera one of top 3 mdfld in europe but sorry, no captain i'm afraid!Give it to Sol& in 4/5 years to Ash or Toure

Agree with this, although I think Sol is far too quiet and passive, maybe Toure after a few years, as for Cole, a left back as captain doesn't seem to work, actually Kenny Sansom!, dunno Cole just doesn't look like a captain to me!
 

Sammer

Established Member
Nationality is really not the issue. Think about Viera or Kolo - any lack of "fighting spirit" here?

It really is outdated, since the 80´s, where England and Germany were associated with "fighting spirit" "physique" and "grit".

It has all changed. Other nations - including France - have learned to even further develop their technical superiority while catching up with "fighting spirit" and "physique".
 

Arsenal Quotes

When you start supporting a football club, you don’t support it because of the trophies, or a player, or history, you support it because you found yourself somewhere there; found a place where you belong.

Dennis Bergkamp

Latest posts

Top Bottom