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07/08 Arsenal vs 22/23

Which one is better?


  • Total voters
    128

2Smokeyy

5.0 ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ (49)
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
Sure but Hleb and Rosicky also wouldn't score 15 goals in the league and would probably miss plenty of easy chances, Hleb was practially allergic to shooting. Totally different players.

“Often to the detriment of our results” which results were these? I think fans invest too much time into stats rather than the players actual ability these days.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
“Often to the detriment of our results” which results were these? I think fans invest too much time into stats rather than the players actual ability these days.

I think because the game has gone that way. Its why you see systems of average to good players like Brighton, combine to become a top team in a top league, despite having squads which man for man are inferior to Sp**s.

System football has made system players more valuable now. You see it with Pep isolating Nasri at City, after being a star at Arsenal. Pep doing it again with Cesc at Barca, Klopp isolating Coutinho at Liverpool, Arteta isolating Pepe and Auba, and other examples out there. Less focus on individual brilliance and more on the system being implemented and how players consistently contribute to that system.

The eye catching nature of the game has died, and instead we now have robotic, calculated football. You hear players talk about what's going to happen on the pitch before it happens, and that they are prepared for it, when it actually plays out.

Sure it looks dull and boring to watch. But it is also very dangerous football.
 

2Smokeyy

5.0 ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ (49)
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
I think because the game has gone that way. Its why you see systems of average to good players like Brighton, combine to become a top team in a top league, despite having squads which man for man are inferior to Sp**s.

System football has made system players more valuable now. You see it with Pep isolating Nasri at City, after being a star at Arsenal. Pep doing it again with Cesc at Barca, Klopp isolating Coutinho at Liverpool, Arteta isolating Pepe and Auba, and other examples out there. Less focus on individual brilliance and more on the system being implemented and how players consistently contribute to that system.

The eye catching nature of the game has died, and instead we now have robotic, calculated football. You hear players talk about what's going to happen on the pitch before it happens, and that they are prepared for it, when it actually plays out.

Sure it looks dull and boring to watch. But it is also very dangerous football.

Good points but the robotic style and rigid systems in place probably explains why a lot of the players nowadays aren’t as pleasing on the eye to watch and why managers are the headliners rather than the supporting acts like they used to be.

The game was bound to evolve at some time but I’m not sure if it’s for the better tbh. Fans used to watch the game for the flair and brilliance of Ronaldinho, Zidane, Kaka etc but nowadays they’re more investing in checking how much G/A or xG their players or team has.
 

MikelHadADream

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
22/23 side scored the most goals of any Arsenal team in PL history I saw? That’s an absolutely phenomenal stat when you come to think of it.

A 45m striker and essentially three academy players as our main 4 attackers in the season.

Loved 07/08 but this team played some absolutely electric football for large parts of the season.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
22/23 side scored the most goals of any Arsenal team in PL history I saw? That’s an absolutely phenomenal stat when you come to think of it.

A 45m striker and essentially three academy players as our main 4 attackers in the season.

Loved 07/08 but this team played some absolutely electric football for large parts of the season.

Yes exactly, because of the repeatable, probably instinctive attacking patterns which we can play and also can easily disguise so that the opposition cant track what we are doing until its too late.

Its why we could play the way we have for so long this past season without our main striker and without dropping much in quality during those 4 months.

Remember the panic and elation from our supporters and rival fans respectively, when Eddie was going to lead the line for us? People genuinely thought we were going to fall off because of one player.

Now just imagine what happens once we secure our defensive quality and depth, to support our ability to continuously recycle and hold the ball to create attacks. You add another quality attacker to that (Balogun/Diaby, etc) and you have problems for the opposition.
 

Bagels

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
Good points but the robotic style and rigid systems in place probably explains why a lot of the players nowadays aren’t as pleasing on the eye to watch and why managers are the headliners rather than the supporting acts like they used to be.

The game was bound to evolve at some time but I’m not sure if it’s for the better tbh. Fans used to watch the game for the flair and brilliance of Ronaldinho, Zidane, Kaka etc but nowadays they’re more investing in checking how much G/A or xG their players or team has.
Depends what you mean by for the better.

In terms of effectiveness, it seems like its the managers job to make the total sum greater than its parts as it is a team sport. Having to rely on individual brilliance is never going to be the most effective. As most teams do not have exceptional players, this allows for most teams to be better than they otherwise would be pretty regularly.

From an entertainment perspective, I think the idea that football nowadays is all dull and 15 years ago it was all brilliant is nostalgia more than anything. Most teams didn’t have Kaka, Ronaldinho, etc., and games frequently devolved into some chaotic and brutal mess. I think as Arsenal fans we were really spoiled rotten with the level of entertainment on show week in and week out.

These exceptional players producing moments of brilliance consistently was not the norm, because most players are not the best in the world.

I actually think that system football as it develops can become more entertaining than it currently is now, but there are some system teams that play entertaining stuff as is, and its definitely raised the floor, if not the ceiling.
 

MikelHadADream

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Depends what you mean by for the better.

In terms of effectiveness, it seems like its the managers job to make the total sum greater than its parts as it is a team sport. Having to rely on individual brilliance is never going to be the most effective. As most teams do not have exceptional players, this allows for most teams to be better than they otherwise would be pretty regularly.

From an entertainment perspective, I think the idea that football nowadays is all dull and 15 years ago it was all brilliant is nostalgia more than anything. Most teams didn’t have Kaka, Ronaldinho, etc., and games frequently devolved into some chaotic and brutal mess. I think as Arsenal fans we were really spoiled rotten with the level of entertainment on show week in and week out.

These exceptional players producing moments of brilliance consistently was not the norm, because most players are not the best in the world.

I actually think that system football as it develops can become more entertaining than it currently is now, but there are some system teams that play entertaining stuff now, and its definitely raised the floor, if not the ceiling.

Real Madrid’ success in Europe over the last few years I think kind of contradict this.

In the age of these super well drilled, robotic teams like City/LFC/Bayern, I feel they were so rigid that any adversity that came about they couldn’t cope with it as well as Madrid, who are far less rigid and relied on their superior individual quality and experience to respond to certain situations in games.

That’s why I don’t think Madrid will ever hire a coach like Pep/Klopp ect. They need the best players in the world and a guy like Carlo/Zidane that lets them play.

Suppose it depends on whether you’re talking about league or cup football though.
 

Bagels

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
Real Madrid’ success in Europe over the last few years I think kind of contradict this.

In the age of these super well drilled, robotic teams like City/LFC/Bayern, I feel they were so rigid that any adversity that came about they couldn’t cope with it as well as Madrid, who are far less rigid and relied on their superior individual quality and experience to respond to certain situations in games.

That’s why I don’t think Madrid will ever hire a coach like Pep/Klopp ect. They need the best players in the world and a guy like Carlo/Zidane that lets them play.

Suppose it depends on whether you’re talking about league or cup football though.
I’d say that domestic leagues are a better barometer as its a far greater sample size and so less of a lottery. I think that is fair to say.

Though tbf, Barca under Pep were a system team if there ever was one, and they had European success.

Even Ancelotti’s Milan side had SOME makings of a system team though people tend to gloss over this.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
Real Madrid’ success in Europe over the last few years I think kind of contradict this.

In the age of these super well drilled, robotic teams like City/LFC/Bayern, I feel they were so rigid that any adversity that came about they couldn’t cope with it as well as Madrid, who are far less rigid and relied on their superior individual quality and experience to respond to certain situations in games.

That’s why I don’t think Madrid will ever hire a coach like Pep/Klopp ect. They need the best players in the world and a guy like Carlo/Zidane that lets them play.

Suppose it depends on whether you’re talking about league or cup football though.

Madrid play like Wenger's best teams for me. Brilliant combination play based on a structure dictated by player intelligence in dynamic game situations . The higher quality of players, the more devastatingly brilliant the football. I think this is why Wenger was keen on bringing Ancelotti in as his successor, similar philsophy.

That's not to say that Wenger and Ancelotti dont play according to tactical plans, but rather they center their tactics around creating situations where they can combine and attack with those dynamic combinations or create 1v1 situations where elite players can finish it off.

Its brilliant to watch, but its also a bit easier to plan for IMO. Hence why I lean more to today's teams being ahead of teams of the past.
 

Buhry

Established Member

Country: Norway
“Often to the detriment of our results” which results were these? I think fans invest too much time into stats rather than the players actual ability these days.

Well i'm not gonna go back and start looking through our game history and find out when he screwed up a potential goal. It was like 15 years ago. But I remember him often frustrating me and other fans by not shooting when there was a clear chance to do so in what would be a high xg position. But then again his shooting technique was not good so that's probably why he always tried to avoid it if he could.
What I remember from Hleb was that he was a great dribbler, good in the buildup, good at advancing with the ball, left a lot to be desired in the final third, not enough goals for an attacking player, in my opinion. Didn't have that many assists either.

it was always a common criticism of the post invincibles wenger teams that we'd try to pass our way into the net and Hleb was possibly the most prominent example of this.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
22/23 side scored the most goals of any Arsenal team in PL history I saw? That’s an absolutely phenomenal stat when you come to think of it.

A 45m striker and essentially three academy players as our main 4 attackers in the season.

Loved 07/08 but this team played some absolutely electric football for large parts of the season.
Says more about the standard of the league, if anything. Imagine peak RvP or Henry in this league, murdaaaaaaa.

We’ve not seen anything “absolutely phenomenal”.
 

Bagels

Well-Known Member
Trusted ⭐

Country: Canada
Says more about the standard of the league, if anything. Imagine peak RvP or Henry in this league, murdaaaaaaa.

We’ve not seen anything “absolutely phenomenal”.
How come in 2022/2023 the amount of goals Arsenal score are a reflection of the standard of the league, but not the amount of goals RVP scored in 2011/2012 or Henry in 2003/2004 for Arsenal?

Not that I don’t think they’d do great if you placed them during their prime into the league now, just don’t understand attaching one side to reflect the league but not the other.
 

MikelHadADream

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Says more about the standard of the league, if anything. Imagine peak RvP or Henry in this league, murdaaaaaaa.

We’ve not seen anything “absolutely phenomenal”.

We have, people can **** on the end of the season as much as they want but for large chunks of the year we were playing some amazing stuff.
 

sergio_giorgini

Dying on Mt.Neymar Hill
2007/08 team was a mix of 3 or 4 very good players bordering on world class. And 7 or 8 that weren’t quite good enough to be representing AFC.
 

SuperMikel

A calm and collected individual.
Flamini left after 07-08 and didnt Wenger just replace him with that donut Denilson? We sold Hleb too, Rosicky also missed the entire 08-09 season. So basically only Cesc was carried over from 07-08 midfield and he only played 22 league games. Only respectable player we brought in was Nasri. I also remember Wenger had a fetish for Eboue on the RW and Bendtner on the LW. This forced us into buying Arshavin mid year

There were good reasons for why that team never kicked on. This was in the early years of the Wenger malaise where he showed no real desire to compete for the league and had high tolerance for the likes of Almunia, Denilson, Bendtner, Silvestre ect. Injuries (Cesc, Rosicky) didn't elp and Adebayor turned into a proper dickhead after his breakout season.

I dont see any correlation between then and now. Were not selling anyone we dont want to, we appear to be much more active and aggressive in the transfer market. And players like Adebayor were identified as dickheads were pushed out from the club rather than the club being beholden to their behaviour (im looking at you Pierre).

Its not at all the same
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
The only player that wasn't good enough to play for Arsenal in 2008, was Almunia (I would also argue Flamini too, think he was a little overrated as a player) but the rest were pretty much top class footballers in that starting lineup.

Even on the bench, young Walcott was a super exciting player, Eduardo was so deadly pre injury and Diaby had top potential.

Was a very good side.
 

Macho

In search of Pure Profit 💸
Dusted 🔻

Country: England
The only player that wasn't good enough to play for Arsenal in 2008, was Almunia (I would also argue Flamini too, think he was a little overrated as a player) but the rest were pretty much top class footballers in that starting lineup.

I agree Flamini wasn't amazing per say, but it was what he brought out of Cesc and what he allowed him to do. We had actually temporarily struck gold with that midfield partnership.

I think once it was clear Flamini wasn't signing Arsène should have been a lot firmer and proceeded with Diarra, instead he lost both when we could all see that coming.
 

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