Soler
Established Member
kanuuu said:
I know. But it will. This was just a once-off due to injuries (even Hoyte was injured).
How has this thread gone sixteen pages?
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1.st time in Arsenal history without British-born player
- Thread starter pv_ice
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I know. But it will. This was just a once-off due to injuries (even Hoyte was injured).
How has this thread gone sixteen pages?
kanuuu
Established Member
Probably because people involved in people keep talking **** in the news, even Mourinho had a go at us for it.
RocktheCasbah
Established Member
Sheep, some of you are.
I've just gone through the matchday thread and there was not a mention of this issue.
Why? Because it isn't relevant!
If the british are the best players, then they play. If not, then they don't. And that's how it should be. Simple as.
I've just gone through the matchday thread and there was not a mention of this issue.
Why? Because it isn't relevant!
If the british are the best players, then they play. If not, then they don't. And that's how it should be. Simple as.
RockyRocastle
Established Member
Look - all you foreign fans need to realise that most of us English fans are going to want to see English players in our team (and Aussie, who im sure lived a previous life in Archway). Just try and understand that.
Im not going to get into all this better fan debate cause even I am bored of that now. The whole thing can be summed up as foreign fans and match going fans are just very different.
I am not happy that there were no English players in our team - but I understand the reasons why there were not and I am in full support of Wenger. This issue if not one to fall out with each other over.
You all just need to understand the different perspectives people view this issue with. Long term Arsenal fans are going to want to see English players, foreign fans wont care, because as I said they are different.
But I do find the press coverage of all this laughable. It is STILL going on, all over SSN this morning and in the papers. England team this, England team that. I and most other gooners dont care! We care about the identity of our ENGLISH team.
And then mugs like Morinho pipe up about the issue. You play two Englishmen week in week out matey, same as us.
Im not going to get into all this better fan debate cause even I am bored of that now. The whole thing can be summed up as foreign fans and match going fans are just very different.
I am not happy that there were no English players in our team - but I understand the reasons why there were not and I am in full support of Wenger. This issue if not one to fall out with each other over.
You all just need to understand the different perspectives people view this issue with. Long term Arsenal fans are going to want to see English players, foreign fans wont care, because as I said they are different.
But I do find the press coverage of all this laughable. It is STILL going on, all over SSN this morning and in the papers. England team this, England team that. I and most other gooners dont care! We care about the identity of our ENGLISH team.
And then mugs like Morinho pipe up about the issue. You play two Englishmen week in week out matey, same as us.
JazzG
Established Member
RockyRocastle said:
You do understand but others don't.
In an ideal world all 25 of our squad would be from our academy but it just doesn't work like that, I am not foreign either.
Gunner4Eva
Established Member
I know its important that an English club maintains having English players in the team, but what exaclty can be done when the only capable English players in the team are all injured!?
If Wenger didnt put Campbell, Cole or Hoyte in the line-up even when they were 100% healthy, then we have every right to argue and complain about it for 20 pages. But the boys were injured, and since the talent in England is poor, there wasnt much Wenger could've done.
Aslong as we win, thats whats important!
If Wenger didnt put Campbell, Cole or Hoyte in the line-up even when they were 100% healthy, then we have every right to argue and complain about it for 20 pages. But the boys were injured, and since the talent in England is poor, there wasnt much Wenger could've done.
Aslong as we win, thats whats important!
Sammer
Established Member
OneteaminLondon said:
Thanks for that statement OTIL. No need to go into further detail - summs it all up really well.
patrick42uk
Established Member
wenger
quite a speech. one of his best yet. of course there is a bit of xenophobia involved in all of this.
and it is an interesting question. how comes now england have arguably one of their most talented squads, tipped to win things, when the premeirship's foreign players numbers is at its highest?
quite a speech. one of his best yet. of course there is a bit of xenophobia involved in all of this.
and it is an interesting question. how comes now england have arguably one of their most talented squads, tipped to win things, when the premeirship's foreign players numbers is at its highest?
Shomo
Active Member
englishgooner said:
hey matey i think it is you who should f**k off,no one hates english players and people,and whatever merson said on arsenal i totally dissagree with him,as long as you are good enough to play for arsenal,you're in,but you are right about taylor,he should have replace lehmann or almunia,and hoyte is not yet strong enough to replace lauren and eboue is likely to play better than him
as for bentley i don't think he can make it
jockrutherford
Member
patrick42uk said:
1. Wanting to see English players in the Arsenal team is not xenophobic or racist. Walking around Islington you see hundreds of kids wearing Arsenal shirts (all ethnicities, all religions by the way). It would be nice to think that one of them could make it into the first team. There is something special about having someone who grew up as a Gooner making it into the team. I appreciate that Ashley Cole's recent behaviour suggests that even for these kids money may speak louder than loyalty, but that's the way of the world. Some people put personal ambition before the collective.
2. The amount of money that you spend doesn't not determine how big a fan you are. However, people who go games and live near Highbury have a very different perspective to those who live overseas. When I say that the club means more to long term, local fans than those who have started supporting the club in recent times and have never been to the ground, I am not being racist or xenophobic. You have every right to support the club and your support is valued. But Arsenal is not a franchise. It is not a brand. It is a football club. And it belongs to the community in whichh it is based. That's why we didn't go to Wembley, that's why we aren't building a super stadium in Hertfordshire, or Macedonia or anywhere else. We are an Islington club and staying in Islington meant something to the Board and the Borough. Those of you who don't understand this connection shouldn't dismiss it. It's not us being little Englanders. its us valuing something that has been part of our lives and our families lives for many years. I think that most of us accept that English players will be in the minority at the club from now on and appreciate the foreign players for all that they have done. Henry and Bergkamp are in the pantheon of Arsenal greats with Adams, Bastin, Hapgood, Drake, Compton and many others of all nationalities. I just want to see a few local lads pull on the red and white. I don't think Wenger is anti-English. I just think he's been unlucky when he has bought English. Let's hope the next one to make it to the first team is successful.
Shomo
Active Member
Mbaki Mutahaba said:
Spot On mate
jockrutherford
Member
Shomo said:
How can either of you support a club and have such little understanding of what it is all about?
Gurgen
Established Member
I think you made a very good point in your last post jockrutherford.
We just never get lucky with English talent, I hope people like Ryan Smith can change that.
We just never get lucky with English talent, I hope people like Ryan Smith can change that.
Shomo
Active Member
englishgooner said:Cole and sol the obvious.
Have you watched more than 5 minutes of hoyte? NO so shut up
have you watched any minutes of smith? NO so shut up
do you not remember taylor - twice the goalkeeper of almunia and lemon put together!!!
no talent MY ARSE wenger just doesnt want to use it. IM PRAYING that uefa bring in that rule it will make english football in general alot stronger.
Arsenal are a laughin stock at the moment, ive received non stop abuse from mates since the palace game, and im sure alot of you - here in england - have suffered the same.
First ever team not to play a player from that nationops:
your comment has made me doubt whether you are an arsenal fan
patrick42uk
Established Member
jockrutherford said:
mate i havent accused you have being xenophobic. in fact this is the first post of yours i'v read. maybe i should be more specific. there is an element of xenophobia in the press uproar surrounding this which is what i think wenger was trying to point out.
voomboom
Active Member
"When you grow up with a club and you end up playing for them and winning things, you are from the club. I was produced here. I was formulated here."
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Anonymous
Guest
What is the big deal with this??? It's only one match with no english player and it's not as if wenger has been using only foreign players since he came here. Many of you made it sound like he has never use any english players before. If that's the case you can criticize him all you want. all these has been blown out of proportion
Mbaki Mutahaba
Established Member
voomboom said:
Times have changed man!! I doubt Cole will say the same thing. Just because I didn't see a problem with the lineup on Monday doesn't mean I don't think its good to have English players at Arsenal. All I am stating is the desire to have English home grown playes should not compromise the Coach's ambition/goal of lining up the best available players out there.
miracles said:
Yes, I'm tired. Just let's accept that Arsenal shows what is London today: one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world. So is Arsenal. Also, there'll always be good english players because there are a lot of talent: Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Owen, Campbell, Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Downing, Wright-Phillips, Carragher, Defoe, King...more names? Don't mention Beckham please. :thumbdown
Tangent
Member
After reading this whole thread I feel a lot of people are making valid points.
First, even as a California fan of the Arsenal I do feel I grok where some of you old school die hard Gunners from Islington are coming from. Sadly I was not born in London and did not grow up going to Highbury but I can relate. I was born and raised in Los Angeles and my Da took me to LA Dodger baseball games since I was 4. While i never enjoyed playing or watching baseball as much as soccer/football because of that imprinting when I was kid, I will always be a hometown Dodger fan. In the 1980s the Dodgers were known for recruiting players from Latin America. Dodger fans accepted and loved Fernando Valenzuela as much as any native Los Angelean but there was still always mad love for homegrown players. Even though Steve Garvey was born in Florida, LA fans loved and treated him as if he was as homegrown as Mark McGuire. So I can see why many of you Islington or even English fans care about English players (especially from the Academy). I am no "Brand Name Chaser" and I have been an Arsenal fan for years before Wenger when I could only read the scores in the newspaper in the late 1980s. I did learn and the history of the Arsenal from its founding and grow to have much trmendous respect for Arsenal legends like Herbert Chapman. I did not defend the honour of Arsenal FC as a kid by fighting some Manure bully in the schoolyard, as a soccer/football playing kid in America in the 1980s we would have to get into fights with ignorants accusing us of playing a "communist sport" (so stupid they didn't realize soccer/football and capitalism came from the same place). So I do think there is something to the take of wanting an Englishman on an English Premier League team.
However, many of the posts by people like Guvnor and Englishgooner seem to not acknowledge the bigger picture...as has been pointed out, its not like Arsenal doesn't have as many brits in the starting 11 as Chelski...
I wonder if any of you read Alan Smith's enlightening article that was posted?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.j ... nsmi17.xml
"The truth is, the pool of talent over here has never been so low. There are too many distractions for children, too many things standing in the way of them spending all day up the park practising their skills. Whatever the reasons, the number of genuine prospects has dramatically shrunk.
Academy rules certainly don't help. Unlike before, clubs can only recruit boys who live within 90 minutes of their ground. Introduced to encourage the development of local lads, the system's good intentions clearly haven't worked.
In London, there are six or seven clubs chasing the same players. There aren't enough to go round and those blessed with genuine promise are lavished with inducements by clubs and sportswear firms eager to keep the player onside. At such an early age, hunger and attitude sometimes take a hit. "
so while there is legit issues
"On this point, however, there is the feeling that Wenger does slightly mistrust the innate merits of Britons. Take a look at his decision to rescue Manuel Almunia from obscurity in Spain rather than taking a punt on the home-grown Stuart Taylor, rated very highly by goalkeeping coach Bob Wilson.
Going further back, the Frenchman discarded Matthew Upson, allowing the centre-half to join Birmingham City where he has positively thrived since. The highly vulnerable Pascal Cygan was deemed a better bet. "
I believe all those saying Wenger should have played at least one Brit are looking at the SYMPTON of the disease rather than the CAUSE.
Putting Bentley on the team Monday night just to have 1 Englishman on the bench would have avoided this dubious "record" but it amounts to nothing more than treating the sympton and does NOT advance any solutions to the CAUSE of what is bothering most of yous.l
First, even as a California fan of the Arsenal I do feel I grok where some of you old school die hard Gunners from Islington are coming from. Sadly I was not born in London and did not grow up going to Highbury but I can relate. I was born and raised in Los Angeles and my Da took me to LA Dodger baseball games since I was 4. While i never enjoyed playing or watching baseball as much as soccer/football because of that imprinting when I was kid, I will always be a hometown Dodger fan. In the 1980s the Dodgers were known for recruiting players from Latin America. Dodger fans accepted and loved Fernando Valenzuela as much as any native Los Angelean but there was still always mad love for homegrown players. Even though Steve Garvey was born in Florida, LA fans loved and treated him as if he was as homegrown as Mark McGuire. So I can see why many of you Islington or even English fans care about English players (especially from the Academy). I am no "Brand Name Chaser" and I have been an Arsenal fan for years before Wenger when I could only read the scores in the newspaper in the late 1980s. I did learn and the history of the Arsenal from its founding and grow to have much trmendous respect for Arsenal legends like Herbert Chapman. I did not defend the honour of Arsenal FC as a kid by fighting some Manure bully in the schoolyard, as a soccer/football playing kid in America in the 1980s we would have to get into fights with ignorants accusing us of playing a "communist sport" (so stupid they didn't realize soccer/football and capitalism came from the same place). So I do think there is something to the take of wanting an Englishman on an English Premier League team.
However, many of the posts by people like Guvnor and Englishgooner seem to not acknowledge the bigger picture...as has been pointed out, its not like Arsenal doesn't have as many brits in the starting 11 as Chelski...
I wonder if any of you read Alan Smith's enlightening article that was posted?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.j ... nsmi17.xml
"The truth is, the pool of talent over here has never been so low. There are too many distractions for children, too many things standing in the way of them spending all day up the park practising their skills. Whatever the reasons, the number of genuine prospects has dramatically shrunk.
Academy rules certainly don't help. Unlike before, clubs can only recruit boys who live within 90 minutes of their ground. Introduced to encourage the development of local lads, the system's good intentions clearly haven't worked.
In London, there are six or seven clubs chasing the same players. There aren't enough to go round and those blessed with genuine promise are lavished with inducements by clubs and sportswear firms eager to keep the player onside. At such an early age, hunger and attitude sometimes take a hit. "
so while there is legit issues
"On this point, however, there is the feeling that Wenger does slightly mistrust the innate merits of Britons. Take a look at his decision to rescue Manuel Almunia from obscurity in Spain rather than taking a punt on the home-grown Stuart Taylor, rated very highly by goalkeeping coach Bob Wilson.
Going further back, the Frenchman discarded Matthew Upson, allowing the centre-half to join Birmingham City where he has positively thrived since. The highly vulnerable Pascal Cygan was deemed a better bet. "
I believe all those saying Wenger should have played at least one Brit are looking at the SYMPTON of the disease rather than the CAUSE.
Putting Bentley on the team Monday night just to have 1 Englishman on the bench would have avoided this dubious "record" but it amounts to nothing more than treating the sympton and does NOT advance any solutions to the CAUSE of what is bothering most of yous.l
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