2 Ramsey Questions

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by sabret00the, May 3, 2011.

  1. Armor for Sleep

    Armor for Sleep New Member Elite

    Surely the Ramsey Wilshere and Cesc midfield but we worth a go in Europe? Lets say our first CL game is at home v someone like Anderlecht, i think it would be a good time to test it out.
  2. yousif_arsenal

    yousif_arsenal King of Twitter Rumours Moderator

    I Would love to see ramsey wilshere fabregas at midfield but the problem no one from them can play a defense midfielder i dont think wenger will play 3 CM's
  3. DK Gooner

    DK Gooner New Member

    I don't think we actually need to play one most of the time. Our strength is ball retention and we actually gained the upper hand against Barca in the first leg when we had a midfield trio of Nasri, Cesc and Wilshere, having replaced Song who was ineffective as the holding midfielder. Having an option on the bench to revert to a DM in midfield would be more than adequate if the system is not working. Wilshere, Cesc and Ramsey have the ability to track back and pressurise opponents. We work best when we able to transition the ball quickly from defence to attack, and thus having JW, CF and AR could facilitate a more efficient team performance.
  4. DJ_Markstar

    DJ_Markstar Well-Known Member

    @ DK Gooner

    I totally agree, against highly technical opponents (Barca) it is virtually pointless playing a Song or a Diaby in midfield as you will often need to press them into mistakes - the opportunity to bully them off the ball physically just isn't there...and when you get the ball, you need to keep it as best you can.
  5. sammy89

    sammy89 Well-Known Member

    with all these threads promoting the notion of slotting Ramsey into the first team, just goes to show that we're still not appreciating the value of experience, which is the crux of our problems right now. Ramsey and Wilshere should be nowhere near the first team if you ask me.
  6. AnthonyG

    AnthonyG Arse Emeritus Administrator

    Experience is important, yes, and I would like us maybe to pick up another centre mid with experience, one who can organise and do a good defensive shift etc., but you can't deny the exceptional talents that are Aaron and Jack.
  7. Mr. Hotshot

    Mr. Hotshot New Member

    After his heroics against Man Utd? I would say yes, play him. No point selecting a player 1 week, and then to put him back in the bench if you know the player has worked hard enough to gain his place in the team.
  8. outlaw_member

    outlaw_member New Member

    Lampard and Gerrard only failed as a duo, because Sven, McClaren nor Capello thought to place an anchorman behind them. Possibly due to the fact that they've never really had a good one in England. It was the equivalent of playing Iniesta and Xavi in a 2 man midfield, which too would have failed on an epic scale.
  9. Y va marquer

    Y va marquer New Member Elite

    He's no longer listed as injured but he didn't play for the reserves last week.
    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.arsenal.com/match-menu/3387884/reserves/man-utd-res-v-arsenal-res?tab=report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.arsenal.com/match-menu/33878 ... tab=report</a>

    I see Aliadiere did though :mrgreen:
  10. outlaw_member

    outlaw_member New Member

    It is a given that we won't find a player who can replicate Fabregas's creative ability, but there are other CM's who can offer qualities which could still improve the team. Even a relatively underwhelming replacement like Sahin, who would be a different type of midfielder, would enable us to configure a different midfield set up and alter the manner in which it functions. Which could even turn out to be for better of the team.

    The worst thing we could do is expect Ramsey and Wilshere to suffice in his departure, provided Cesc leaves within the next two years or so, because they simply won't be ready, or good enough to perform consistently over an entire season.

    Like others have mentioned, I'd sign another creative CM to replace Fabregas, so that we have 3 options in the midfield who can offer creative passing. Whilst, also improving the front line so that there is a lesser need for an incisive pass.
  11. outlaw_member

    outlaw_member New Member

    Absolutely. Even with Wilshere having proven to be somewhat consistent throughout the season, his level has dropped considerably in the final run-in. I wouldn't describe him as exceptional going by his start or finish to this season. He had one great spell around January, but he's generally flattered to deceive at times, if you overlook his circumstances (debut season, 19 years of age, blah, blah).
  12. Shue

    Shue New Member Elite

    Frimpong was just over playing in the Dallas Cup
  13. DK Gooner

    DK Gooner New Member

    I like Ramsey as a player and did not consider him anywhere near the first team but his performance against united last week rekindled my desire to see an all passing CM trio. My point about a Cesc, Ramsey, Wilshere trio was more of a theoretical model to counter the notion that we need start with a dedicated DM. I have put forward the notion of Nasri slotting into the AM role before and likewise would rather have a better more-experienced alternative to JW until he becomes the player that we hope he will be. Song and Diaby will have their moments, but there are limitations to their ability and as such do not want them to be first-teamers. Song's success was against United was largely down to Fergie getting his tactics wrong IMO as Lee Dixon explains in his analysis:

    Even Lassana Diarra who many would say is a better DM than Song, struggled against Barca as his inferior technique in tight spaces and general decision making when pressed heavily by the Catalans rendered him more of a liability than an asset. We got an advantage as we were able to outnumber United in midfield when previously we have lost out when they played 3 in CM. When the opposition does match us in formation, we need to have players that can do a job better than them in the style we have adopted.

    We have geared up to play a passing style and we will become a far more effective team if we can transition the ball quickly from defence to attack. Koscielny for all his defensive lapses can provide a great platform for attacks with his timely ability to intercept. His passing and decision-making when in possession at such times needs to be a bit quicker and sharper. Likewise JW does so much right close to our own box, but poor execution and decision-making lets him and the team down closer to the final 1/3. He may not have full attacking licence, but his role actually means he is far harder to mark and he does get sufficient opportunities to attack the box. Mores the pity that he just does not utilise those chances, but I'm sure that will come with a bit of time. I have not seen enough of Ramsey to know how well suited he is to slot into the team on a more regular basis, but his technique is very good as his two-footedness gives him far more time and options than many others. Unfortunately experience is lacking.
  14. fabo

    fabo 6.51 / 10

    Diarra was excellent against Barcelona.

    Ramsey struggles more than Song when pressed heavily if you ask me, at this stage anyway.
  15. Shue

    Shue New Member Elite

    Song is 3 years older
  16. fabo

    fabo 6.51 / 10

    So? The question is being asked now.
  17. AnthonyG

    AnthonyG Arse Emeritus Administrator

    You haven't seen enough of Ramsey now to make that conclusion yet.
  18. fabo

    fabo 6.51 / 10


    Good point.
  19. Shue

    Shue New Member Elite

    The other point is we're not saying never play Song, we're saying that in some matches a 3 of Cesc/Wilshere/Ramsey could well prove more effective.
  20. fabo

    fabo 6.51 / 10

    Could try it against Villa, home game against a pretty attacking side.

    If we could somehow get shot of Denilson and Diaby and get in one more reliable CM, we may just have a great midfield again.

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