31/10/2012 near enough at full strength. Your strongest 11?

[Anzac]

I'm not sure why Wenger decided to go with midfielders on the wings but we should just end the pretext and formally switch to the diamond formation.

IMO it came with the change to a possession passing game,
and AW had the WFs coming inside to link with the AMC playmaker (Fabregas) in support of the lone striker almost like a narrow 4231.
That said I also think that he wanted a balance of 1 AM playmaker type coming inside & the other being a more direct player to attack the byline & get into the area.

 

[mavelous]

I don't want ball carriers in my midfield 3 - I want them to be touch players & passers so as to keep the ball in motion - pass & move & all 3 can play both a short & long passing game, and all 3 can put in a defensive shift & work as a unit. Wilshere is going to be our most important player & will learn shed loads from playing close with Arteta & Cazorla in the same areas & roles.

I want players like Rosicky / AA as the starting AMc because they provide movement (Rosicky) and/or goal threat (AA). I want the AMC to be my 3rd goal scoring option more than being a playmaker, and IMO Cazorla is less of a goal threat inside the area than either. Rosicky IMO is key because of his constant movement as we saw last season.
AA would make it more of a 433 (in roles) with him making runs at the area from deeper & looking to play off the CF,
whilst the SS looked to drift wide to open the channels for the movement from deeper & then make runs into those channels as the ball was played into the area.

Diaby & Gervinho would come off the bench when I wanted to hold the ball as both are ball carriers who run with the ball.

but the problem is that you cannot play one touch, give and go game without some semblance of technical ability. i do think coquelin and ramsey have unique qualities, but wilshere and diaby's ability to turn play out of tight situations, play the first pass or manipulate their touch into space is invaluable. even arteta struggles to use his weaker foot and because of his physical qualities, needs that precious little extra time to move the ball. but the upside is that he uses the extra time perfectly to make smart decisions, to control the tempo, see the field etc.

the problem, then is that you don't want another player who's slow in moving the ball. diaby is slow at times, but that's out of style, not technical deficiency or lack of confidence.

 

[mavelous]

actually, i'm even more leaning towards cazorla used wide. with arteta occupying general area, diaby and wilshere can take the wings of the inverted pyramid. they're both accustomed to playing in different areas of the pitch, and at least diaby is considered a goal threat while jack definitely has the skillset and physical qualities to be effective running into the box.

the problem with cazorla though, is that he's not a goal threat at the moment. either because he's getting far fewer chances (more likely), because he's not as clinical as strikers, unsurprisingly. but a player of his quality will still score, and he has a history of that - except playing on the wings. in the middle he is burdened with creative duties, and is at times almost level with arteta - our deepest mid. because we're almost so bad that his sole duty is to help keep possession.

now, i know people like to think he's a perfect "CAM", he said so himself, he's our best player etc. and they'll freak out at my suggestion yet again - because it conflicts with their preset notions without even giving much thought to this case. but for me, we're lacking a 3rd goal threat besides podolski and our ever inconsistent CFs. ramsey, regardless of his potential and style, is not. theo is not consistent, and doesn't even start. with cazorla, i believe he'll actually cause more havoc cutting inside and creating man advantage for us. he should also be more liberated from tight marking and deep midfield duties to actually utilize his goalscoring threat. think about it - a WF who's a goal threat AND a creative player?

 

[Big Poppa]

Back to Diaby, what has he really done this season? Did nothing against Sunderland, easily our weakest midfielder. Same at Stoke, average. Brilliant vs Liverpool. One of our worst in Montpellier, decided to give the ball away twice in our own box. Average at City.

Bit much to say we've slumped because of him, the lad has done very little for Arsenal in nearly 7 years. Will be good to have him back whenever that is though, at least so Coquelin is pushed further down, this kid ain't up to it.

I don't know how many balls he headed out of our 6 yard box against Stoke, but for the first time in a long time at their place I didn't feel like we ever looked like losing a goal from a set piece. He also won a lot of possession for us from goal kicks, took the ball from defenders & shifted it quickly forward between Arteta and Cazorla. We wouldn't have lost those two goals to Chelsea if he had stayed on the pitch.

He is a better, stronger defender than Ramsey and also a more penetrative attacker. His ability to transition the ball forward was missed especially at Norwich, and Against Schalke. Cazorla has to drop deeper because he's not getting it as quickly as he used to. Aside from that, Diaby has done nothing.

 

[yuvken]

(Rosicky)... goal threat (AA). I want the AMC to be my 3rd goal scoring option more than being a playmaker, and IMO Cazorla is less of a goal threat inside the area than either.

Rosicky more a goal threat than Cazorla? 2012-13 AA? and since when are you more Wenger than the man himself? Nice stories, these, but where do they connect to what we've actually been seeing?
EDIT: have a look at Poppa's take of a carrier ^^ as to why a bit of realism would help your all-passing utopia. Rozza and AA won't make us Barca perfect, after all.


Going to miss the game today. Hope I'll be all when I return.

 

[yuvken]

...and I don't understand how anyone can question this line up ATM.

This one vv (Vela's; AM time warp).

 

[Vela]

--------------Szczęsny
Sagna-----Per-------Kos-----Gibbs
---------Arteta---Wilshere
Walcott-------Santi--------Podolski
-------------Giroud

 

[Giroud]

...and I don't understand how anyone can question this line up ATM.

This one vv (Vela's; AM time warp).

Walcott and Podolski dropping too deep wasting their best qualities. If we want to persist with that formation Podolski and Walcott need to be playing as genuine forwards which probably won't happen.

 

[cloista]

I've been thinking about this a lot recently, and this is how I'd like to see it.


-------Sneezy-------
Jenks-BFG-TV-Gibbs
Ox-Jack-Arteta-Cazorla
----Giroud----------
----------Walcott----


4-4-2/4-4-1-1, similar to how the Invincibles played. Yes that means Cazorla playing the Pires role and Giroud playing in the Bergkamp role (which when you think about his main strength being his link up play, and his willingness to have a shot from range, isn't actually that far fetched).

 

[jones]

Rosicky more of a goal threat than Cazorla is a ridiculous claim tbh, he scored six goals in the last four years.

Agree pretty much with Vela's line-up, though I'd drop Koscielny for Vermaelen. Obviously because the latter is our captain, and also because I think Vermaelen's is far more solid defensively than Koscielny this season, the Frenchman looked lost at times against City and even Reading. Podolski needs to step it up though, his place shouldn't be guaranteed, especially if he's still not able to finish 90 minutes on the pitch.

 

[dreamLord]

Hopefully this puts to bed the myth that Cazorla Wilshere Arteta is a good combination. Not enough goals in that midfield - the AM needs to be a striker (Podolski).

 

[infineon]

Hopefully this puts to bed the myth that Cazorla Wilshere Arteta is a good combination. Not enough goals in that midfield - the AM needs to be a striker (Podolski).

there was never enough physical strength in that 3 anyway. no point looking at what barcelona does and saying "size doesn't matter". We are not barcelona.

 

[Hunta]

Think Cazorla with his goal today give us an idea of how good he could be cutting in from the left, don't think he's got the stamina to get back and forward though so unless we sign Marcelo, we're ****ed either way.

 

[dreamLord]

I'm not going to say I've been calling for Podolski AM and Cazorla LW for a long time.





But I've been calling for Podolski AM and Cazorla LW for a long time.

 

[DiamondGooner]

Hopefully this puts to bed the myth that Cazorla Wilshere Arteta is a good combination. Not enough goals in that midfield - the AM needs to be a striker (Podolski).

One can only hope, Podolski's ability to turn and power passed a defender then expertly dispatch an accurate shot is made for CF.

Cazorla also has played wide most of his career, I like him at CAM but not if the team can't use it, we can't just benefit one over the many.

Giroud needs a partner and Podolski needs to have sight of goal to use his shot also Cazorla is good enough to do damage across the front line and provide accurate crosses for Giroud .... with knockdown's scooped up by Podoldski.

This is becoming a no brainer.

 

[DiamondGooner]

...and I don't understand how anyone can question this line up ATM.

This one vv (Vela's; AM time warp).


--------------Szczęsny
Sagna-----Per-------Kos-----Gibbs
---------Arteta---Wilshere
Walcott-------Santi--------Podolski
-------------Giroud

Sorry homie but after today consider it questioned!

 

[eye4goal]

---------------Szczesney

Sagna---Mertesacker----Vermaelen---Gibbs

-------Diaby----Arteta---Wilshere

Walcott---------Cazorla----------Podolski

Curious - Cazorla as a 'false 9' in a Messi role = Barca Lite?

Yeah, I think that would allow us to start both Walcott and Podolski and keep them higher up the pitch(4-3-1-2 you could say). I like Giroud but our style of play is more or less the opposite of that of Montpellier so I don't get why he was bought as a starter.

I'd even be tempted to start Chamakh upfront if Cazorla is going to drop into the midfield trio. Torres isn't scoring that many at Chelsea but he's a good foil for the players around him and Chamakh is similar to him

 

[Anzac]

@ Yuvken & Jones

Read the post again - I said movement (Rosicky) & goal threat (AA).
And I don't care what the recent seasons have given as stats as IMO neither Rosicky or AA have been played in their preferred roles or positions.

 

[Anzac]

Hopefully this puts to bed the myth that Cazorla Wilshere Arteta is a good combination. Not enough goals in that midfield - the AM needs to be a striker (Podolski).

IMO it's more a consequence of our shape & roles,
which tend to isolate the midfield from each other & expose them.
Effectively we undermine the strengths & purpose of a 3 man midfield,
whilst at the same time we do not improve our goal threat.

We play a pyramid shape with a B2B between 2 playmakers.
Invert the shape & have 2 CMa going forward as a UNIT supported by the DLP.

 

[RUS arsenal]

----------------------Szczesny---------------------
Sagna---Mertesacker---Vermaelen---Gibbs
-----------Diaby-----Arteta-----Wilshere--------
----------------------Cazorla------------------------
-----------------Giroud---Podolski----------------

Not trying to be mean or anything, just curious: exactly how do you figure to defend with that formation?

pfft. easy. we have Diaby :bounce

That takes care of the right side, what about the left? :wink: