4-2-3-1

[qs]

This was the formation tonight and it worked a treat. With Arshavin, Fabregas, Walcott and Rosicky added to it we have the potential to see amazing attacking play. Tonight it seemed to balance the defence and attack like we haven't seen this season. The full backs over lapped as well as they have. Denilson and Diaby controlled the game liek we haven't seen enough from them. It provided support for Robin and allowed the 3 behind him the kind of attacking freedom that so suits our players.

My question to you all is this, is this the Arsenal formation for the foreseeable future? And will this system suit Cesc?

 

[True Gooner]

I don't usually indulge in these threads, but I've been thinking about this as well.

My only concern would be our strikers - Adebayor/Eduardo or RvP? RvP's clearly our best striker but Adebayor's our strongest and Eduardo's our fox in the box. RvP and Eduardo wouldn't enjoy leading the line so I think we should go for something like -

Adebayor
Arshavin-Nasri-RvP
Fabregas-Denilson

 

[cloista]

I disagree TG, RvP absolutely revelled in leading the line tonight.

 

[raidersoftheark]

I've harped on about this many times in the past, but I'm not sure how effective it will be given the current personnel available. You also need to consider the massive numbers of strikers we have. If fit, I think Edu is an automatic starter alongside the Perse, and we all know how much Wenger rates Ade, on top of that.

I'd like to see something like this though:

Almunia
Sagna Gallas Djourou Clichy
Cesc XXX
Nasri Diaby Arshavin
RVP/Edu

With the XXX to be a purely defensive midfielder with passing ability.

 

[True Gooner]

I disagree TG, RvP absolutely revelled in leading the line tonight.

I genuinely doubt he enjoys leading the line though.

However, in a 4-4-2 I'd prefer Eduardo-RvP (certainly at home)

 

[Shadow Moses]

The formation requires a lot of movement from the 4 forwards. Replace Eboue & Nick with Theo/Arshavin/Rosicky and we could have something special on our hands.

Drop the tall striker(Ade/Nick) which should put a stop to the hopeless hoofs and crosses. Bring them on for plan B if needed. Hopefully this formation brings the team back to playing our passing game.

 

[qs]

I don't usually indulge in these threads, but I've been thinking about this as well.

I don't either when its idle speculation and FM bullshit but this was actually employed by Wenger and for the first time from kick off.

My only concern would be our strikers - Adebayor/Eduardo or RvP? RvP's clearly our best striker but Adebayor's our strongest and Eduardo's our fox in the box. RvP and Eduardo wouldn't enjoy leading the line so I think we should go for something like -

Adebayor
Arshavin-Nasri-RvP
Fabregas-Denilson

Yeah thats the issue alright and its the big question for WEnger when Ades back but as in your little diagram there I think Ade is best suited to that striker role and van Persie would thrive in the freedom of the line behind. I also think up top would suit Eddie, he'd clearly work it differently to Ade, playing more off the shoulder than using power but he'd make it work. He could also slip in on the left too. Its a formation that can suit Theo, Vela, Rosicky, etc too. Even Diaby could play within the 3 rather than the 2. Its a very flexible system and I think it really suits us.

 

[otfgoon]

Its definately an interesting formation. Its designed to give the wide players such as Nasri and Arshavin more freedom and I think that works really well.

 

[True Gooner]

I think Fabregas will benefit from this actually. He won't be the creative hub of this team anymore and he'll be able to get forward and rotate at will with Arshavin/Nasri/RvP.

I don't usually indulge in these threads, but I've been thinking about this as well.

I don't either when its idle speculation and FM bullshit but this was actually employed by Wenger and for the first time from kick off.

I've tried this on FM, works a treat.

 

[qs]

I think Fabregas will benefit from this actually. He won't be the creative hub of this team anymore and he'll be able to get forward and rotate at will.

My worry is that it'd stifle him. The question then becomes is it worth stifling Fab to get more from others? A managers job ain't easy.

 

[Nela]

I made a thread about this about a month ago.

And people laughed at me for even suggesting that RvP could play alone up front. I thought then that he would thrive with Nasri playing behind him. And I think they both did.

 

[Nela]

I think Fabregas will benefit from this actually. He won't be the creative hub of this team anymore and he'll be able to get forward and rotate at will.

My worry is that it'd stifle him. The question then becomes is it worth stifling Fab to get more from others? A managers job ain't easy.

We played 4-2-3-1 against Fenerbache away with Fabregas and Denilson playing next to eachother with Diaby in front of them. And Fabregas delivered two of his best moments this season with his defense splitting passes to Ade and Theo who scored early. He also basically played in this formation against Milan away, with Hleb in front of him. Except then it was called 4-4-1-1.

 

[outlaw_member]

Q's, I thought the 2 defensive minded CM's was a myth? :wink:

 

[qs]

I think Fabregas will benefit from this actually. He won't be the creative hub of this team anymore and he'll be able to get forward and rotate at will.

My worry is that it'd stifle him. The question then becomes is it worth stifling Fab to get more from others? A managers job ain't easy.

We played 4-2-3-1 against Fenerbache away with Fabregas and Denilson playing next to eachother with Diaby in front of them. And Fabregas delivered two of his best moments this season with his defense splitting passes to Ade and Theo who scored early. He also basically played in this formation against Milan away, with Hleb in front of him. Except then it was called 4-4-1-1.

That was a 4-4-1-1. There was a difference in how far forward our wide mids played today. We played 4-4-1-1 for years when Bergkamp was in the hole. Its a different formation.

 

[qs]

Q's, I thought the 2 defensive minded CM's was a myth? :wink:

No 2 box to box midfielders was a myth. Though tonight both Denilson and Diaby did both the defensive and attacking roles very well. What reall struck me in the first half was the way both of them pushed on into Romas final 3rd yet against ****king Sunderland on Saturday Denilson rarely passed the half way line. Did the 3 0-0s in a row teach Wenger a lesson on being too negative?

 

[Nela]

Yeah, but Hleb for all his talents is no Bergkamp. He's very much a midfielder.

 

[qs]

Yeah, but Hleb for all his talents is no Bergkamp. He's very much a midfielder.

Don't get me started. I never understood playing a guy who's afraid to shoot in the hole.

The formational difference isn't that position. Its where Nik and Eboue played tonight, they were as advanced as Nasri. When Hleb played there last season the wingers were more in line with Fabregas generally. And Hleb dropped very deep at times, TBH that was more just a 4-5-1. And yeah this is sort of splitting hairs in terms of the names of the systems but tonight we played tactically differently to those games and I just think 4-2-3-1 is an easy short hand for it.

 

[otfgoon]

I think Fabregas will benefit from this actually. He won't be the creative hub of this team anymore and he'll be able to get forward and rotate at will.

My worry is that it'd stifle him. The question then becomes is it worth stifling Fab to get more from others? A managers job ain't easy.

I disagree that it will stifle him, I actually think it would suit him perfectly in that it will provide him with far more passing options. I think one of the reasons Diaby and Denilson did so well tonight was because they always had options, they didnt have to choose between a square/backwards pass or an impossible ball.

The one question mark is how well this formation will transfer over to teams that sit back. You would think 4 players roaming around all over the place will be far harder to mark.

The other question is whether this is just a 'big game' formation or wheter its something we're going to see in every/most games from now on.

 

[outlaw_member]

2 defensive minded box-to-box midfielders was the exact term I used, when I initially brought forward the change in formation. That is exactly how both Denilson and Diaby played tonight.

Regarding your question, I doubt it. There was no real indication of a CM change. The only difference between today and the 3 0-0's, is that Roma allowed us to play our game, rather than try stifling us. This inevitably enabled both Diaby and Denilson, to foray further forward, and look far better. I will bet £500, that neither will look as impressive on the weekend.

 

[tam1886]

*sees no Anzac post*

*sees no Hackajack post*



*scratches head*





Seriously though, I think this was more borne more out of necessity than anything else. It suited the players who played, and they executed it well. I expect we may see it in Europe a bit more frequently but it's not one I expect to see in the league, unless it's in the next two games and Van Persie is rested.

One of the most puzzling things about it for me is that I wouldn't necessarily expect it to complement the styles of Eduardo, Walcott, Fabregas etc, but when I think of who played in their respective positions tonight I'm not so sure. I mean, if Eboue can play there, at least competently, I don't see why Walcott/Eduardo can't. It certainly wouldn't be down to lack of technique anyway.