4231 or 3421?

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by say yes, Dec 23, 2017.

?

Which formation?

  1. 4231

  2. 3421

  3. Other formation

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. say yes

    say yes To VAR

    Interested to hear people’s thoughts on this given that Wenger seems to moved back to a back 4. Would be nice to have something different to discuss a well.

    Personally I’m amazed that anyone thinks the 4231 is the best formation for this group of players & would struggle to think of a single area of the pitch where it improves us.

    Thoughts?
     
    tcahill likes this.
  2. Preacher

    Preacher Anti-Ornstein

    I think we need third option. I personally don't see big difference. All stats confirm this notion.
     
    Gooner Zig, BBF and redanddread like this.
  3. Trilly

    Trilly The John Cross of Ilford

    Three at the back was just throwing another defender at the problem rather than addressing the reasons for why we are so porous at the back, Wenger admitted as much.

    We attack and play better with the 4231 in my opinion, we just need someone who can actually show some attention to detail when it comes to positional play and defending.

    We don’t even need Wenger to leave for that but seeing as he refuses to hire new coaching staff then he needs to go away.
     
  4. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Established Member

    They're both pretty meh. Ideally I'd prefer 4-2-3-1 but we don't have the winger or the DM to really make it work. 3-4-2-1 probably suits the strengths of the current squad better.
     
  5. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Established Member

    Of course by the time we get a winger and DM in Özil could have left already. Without Özil what's even the point in a 4-2-3-1?
     
  6. NieThePiet

    NieThePiet Loves Overhyping Our Rivals

    I hate it, really.
    Training the whole preseason with 3-4-2-1 and after the first half it looks like we are switching back to 4-2-3-1.

    No system will work, if Wenger is indetermined which system he will use.

    I would say: I would prefer 4 at the back but the players fitting better into a 3-4-2-1.

    -----------------------Cech/new GK------------------------
    ------------Chambers----Mustafi------Monreal-----------
    Maitland------------------------------------------Kolasinac
    -------------------Ramsey-------Xhaka---------------------
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------Özil--------------------------Wilshere-----------
    ------------------------Lacazette-----------------------------

    Maybe a 4-4-1-1

    ---------------------------Cech--------------------------------
    ---------Koscielny/Chambers-------Mustafi---------------
    Bellerin--------------------------------------------Kolasinac
    ---------------------------Xhaka------------------------------
    --------------Ramsey--------------Wilshere-----------------
    ---------------------------Özil---------------------------------
    ------------------------------------Sanchez-------------------
    --------------------Lacazette----------------------------------

    I like Monreal but i don't think he is a good CB for 4 at the back.
     
  7. tcahill

    tcahill Well-Known Member

    We look far better attacking in the 3-4-3. We're defensively garbage either way so I say stick with 3-4-3. We were terrible in a 4231 last season, people seem to have already forgotten that.

    Edit: just realized Ramsey is probably why we look so good going forward in the 3-4-3.
     
    Rygura, krackpot and say yes like this.
  8. Penn_

    Penn_ Established Member

    4231

    The back three’s effectiveness is overrated. We won so many games with it after we had switched to a four late on.
     
  9. Saikung

    Saikung Active Member

    4 at the back with the wingers willing to make a defensive shift. That's why I feel Ramsey is better utilised at the right. But that's just me.
     
  10. Tir Na Nog

    Tir Na Nog In Big Trouble If He Speaks

    It depends on our personnel. I think 3-4-3 was pretty good when we had our absolute best XI starting games, but a couple of injuries means it's pointless sticking with that formation.

    I guess 4-2-3-1 in general suites our style of play far more, neither formation is exactly going to help us defensively because of the players we've got in there, aging defenders in Monreal and Koscielny, Mustafi who's suspect and Kolasinac who's lost his way as well as Xhaka being our supposed "holding midfielder" when he can really defend and is poor in terms of his positioning off the ball. From an attacking sense however we're far better in that formation especially when we've got our creative players on top form.
     
  11. field442

    field442 Hates Journalists Named James

    I always thought the 3-4-2-1 was just something he got stuck with because it got him out of a hole and he dare not change it given the atmosphere around the club. Personally I prefer the 4-2-3-1 but I’ve wanted us to try a diamond for ages. Though with the way our defense is at the minute we’d probably need a proper defensive midfielder at the base of it.
     
  12. Jury

    Jury Mission Accomplished

    We're spastics, so 4231 helps us more.

    All said, we have no positional discipline once the whistle goes anyway, so that 4231 becomes a 2017; which reminds me, happy new year everyone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2017
    samshere, Rygura, Trilly and 5 others like this.
  13. Toast

    Toast Well-Known Member

    We don't have the players for either formation, so for me it's a question of which formation is the least ****.

    Our squad is a mess. We don't have the wingers to play 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 and we don't have the midfielders to play 3-4-3.

    4-3-3 with Alexis - Lacazette - Özil as a front 3 could work in theory, but the formation wouldn't work if you took one of those players out as we have no adequate depth. Balancing issues and terrible depth in midfield as well. We have the players for a 4-3-1-2 / 4-1-2-1-2, but it would further force us down the middle and probably make us more ineffective. We'd need Bellerin and Kolasinac to bomb forward to provide width and I think we have neither the tactical discipline to deal with that, nor a midfielder who's comfortable dropping back to form a back three.

    All in all, this seems like a squad that's been assembled without a clear plan in mind.

    I suppose 4-2-3-1 edges it, because it at least makes us a bit more entertaining going forward.
     
    Trilly and Gooner Zig like this.
  14. American_Gooner

    American_Gooner Not actually American. Unless Di Marzio says so. Moderator

    Picked 3421 mainly because I can't think of anyone I want on the right in with a back 4. Alexis on the RW with Iwobi on the left worked well in the 2nd half of 15/16 and 1st half of 16/17 but Wenger seems to have abandoned that.

    Maybe Wenger could stick Jack on the right, where he produced some really good performances in November 2013. Linked up well with Özil and Ramsey, although it was suspect defensively as we ended up seeing away to City later.
     
    Trilly likes this.
  15. redanddread

    redanddread The stone that the builders refuse

    Look, we should probably just chuck everyone up top because that's when we play our best. No particular type of defensive shape will help us because at critical moments in our opponents attacking moves we lose all semblance of shape & purpose in defense. Everybody goes for the ball and gaps appear all over the field. Whether it's 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 at the back it'll be the same nonsense. Discussing this is like discussing what type of turd stinks more.
     
  16. BBF

    BBF Real name: Ragip Xh...

    Anything with a back four.
     
    Gooner Zig likes this.
  17. yousif_arsenal

    yousif_arsenal King of Twitter Rumours Moderator

    Both formation we have problems specially defensively. But I do prefer 4-2-3-1 because we look great going forward
     
  18. Gooner Zig

    Gooner Zig AM's Resident Accountant Trusted

    We're actually worse defensively with a back three

    Switching to a back four again might kill Nacho's career though.
     
  19. SA Gunner

    SA Gunner Prediction Pool King Trusted

    The key to both formations is proper ball control in our midfield which extends to support of our defenders.

    The last time I saw such control and support was when Santi was at the base of our midfield. And even then we were just about stable in the middle.

    Whether we play 4 or 3 at the back, our players do not support each other enough and thus it becomes immaterial what formation we use.

    As long as the defenders need to play line break passes while being isolated. The spaces between our defensive and midfield lines remain as big will we constantly be in this loop of frustration.

    What we need is to upgrade our defensive players, in addition to tactical improvements at the back. Monreal, Koscielny, Mertesacker are now in reserve tank. Mustafi is a good reserve player.
     
    Mark Tobias and Trilly like this.
  20. hydrofluoric acid

    hydrofluoric acid Easily Triggered

    Doesnt matter for me really. Our problem is with the basics, simplest passes and also we dont defend well enough. Np matter what system it is.
     
    Steps and Trilly like this.

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