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49 goals conceded: What is wrong with the defence?

Mastadon

Established Member
Our defensive personnel has changed and we finally have 3 quality (not world class but surely good enough?) central defenders, good fullbacks and our best keeper since Jens yet we somehow managed to concede the most goals in a season under Wenger AND match our record for goals conceded in a Premier League season (94/95).

While the game at Old Trafford accounted for 16% of the 49 conceded and we did go through a spell without fullbacks, we also conceded 4 against Milan and another 3 against Norwich and 2 against WBA in our last 2 games with at least 4/5 of our first choice back 5 on the pitch. We have also seen plenty of errors from individuals and the defence as a unit this season which could have cost us our place in the top 4.

So the question I have is what the hell is wrong with our defence when on paper we look more solid than we have been for a while?
 

Beksl

Sell All The Youngsters
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

Our personnel is solid and we'll see that in the coming season(s) IMO.

Apart from the misfortunes you've already pointed out, there's also a case of Vermaelen's lack of form due to playing out on the left, which he hates, and the fact he was out for a year in the previous season which was bound to leave some marks on him this season.
 

Yousif Arsenal

On Vinai's payroll & misses 4th place trophy šŸ†
Trusted ā­
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

I think the lacking of fullbacks cost us and the ugly start of the season. the next season we will be or we must be better.
 

redwhiteAustrian

Tu Felix Austria
Administrator
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

Not enough quality on the pitch at Old Trafford.
Not enough time for the new players to settle in, when we played at Ewood Park.
No FBs from January until February.
No Arteta for the last couple of games.

No wonder why we've conceded that many goals.
 

ebouenolike

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

Well, here are my thoughts on the problems we had this year in defence:

a) Injuries. Yes, we moan more than most, but two broken legs in one season to your best full back is horrific luck. Then Per missing plenty, as well as all our full backs being out at the same time for a month.

b) Not doing our transfer business early. I love Jenkinson, but he wasn't near ready starting for Arsenal this year and shouldn't have had to play at Old Trafford and the like. Santos took a couple of months to get to the right level, in the meantime we suffered.

c) A lack of a shield. It's no surprise we concede tons more goals when Arteta's out of the side, as he covers Song when he decides to go AWOL. The return of Arteta (and Wilshere), and potentially M'Vila, would help a lot.

d) Coaching. Could be unfair as it can't be proven.
 

musicmonkey

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

Beksl said:
Our personnel is solid and we'll see that in the coming season(s) IMO.

Apart from the misfortunes you've already pointed out, there's also a case of Vermaelen's lack of form due to playing out on the left, which he hates, and the fact he was out for a year in the previous season which was bound to leave some marks on him this season.
True not many people realise that TV hasn't played two consecutive seasons in the EPL yet because of that injury that kept him out for pretty much an entire season. It's going to be interesting to see how he fairs with his first proper opportunity to build on what he's done and to improve.

Our ridiculous vulnerability to counter attacks hasn't been brought up yet i don't think. The players need to sort themselves out organisationally, positionally and we need the literally anyone in the team to bust a ball to get back. Just having the numbers can instantly stop/slow a counter attack.
 

Beksl

Sell All The Youngsters
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

musicmonkey said:
Our ridiculous vulnerability to counter attacks hasn't been brought up yet i don't think. The players need to sort themselves out organisationally, positionally and we need the literally anyone in the team to bust a ball to get back. Just having the numbers can instantly stop/slow a counter attack.

Good point, especially when we're attacking the corner and we're committing to many player in to the box leaving no one to rebound the ball if it's cleared.

We should work on that during the Summer, we're letting dangerous counter attacks not due to lack of quality but rather lack of organization.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

The midfield. I seriously cannot understand how anyone could not see this.

Your midfield is a clusterfuck defensively. There's no clear anchor man and 20-30% of the time nobody tracks back which is ****ing shambles at this level. Either Song or Arteta (preferably both) should ALWAYS - ALWAYS - track back. There's no excuse, none.

Tired legs? Don't burn them going forward, it's that simple.

Most of Vermaelen's mistakes this season have come from him having to cover 2, sometimes 3 players, which is ridiculous. When you have a LB who aspires to be a LW and a midfield who hate defending, you sell your CBs and make them look like ****.

No defensive line in the world can defend without the help from midfield. Look at Man Utd, the entire team except maybe 1 striker defends, even the likes of Nani.

It's so mind-numbingly simple that I can't fathom how it hasn't been rectified yet. It's downright laughable at this level.

I'd be yelling my ****ing lungs out if I saw my midfield not giving a **** and jogging back.
 

GunnerGetYah

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

The lack of a DM that plays like a DM, as an anchor is something we miss. Especially when Verm or Kos start making runs for goal.
 

musicmonkey

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

We also had times when even Sagna had outright poor matches, i don't think he's exempt as he had a hand in our defensive showing at times.

Overall we need our defenders to improve their individual games, especially in positioning in Gibbs and Vermaelen, the speed at which we close down crosses with Sagna and Gibbs and to cut out some slight individual errors across the back five. The tactics need improving too, someone needs to anchor and players need to be willing to cover when one moves forward to stop us getting out numbered. Having players who are willing to bust a ball to get back would help, i think we've only really got 2 or 3 players who do this.

I would however like to point out that something like 15 of the goals we conceded came in our first 5 games or something stupid like that. Though that's still no excuse especially when still conceded the likes of 3 goals to Norwich, it makes me wonder how we'd have faired had we not had such a disastrous start to the season.
 

US_Gooner

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

1. Johan Djourou
2. Mid-field that doesn't like to play defense.
3. Backs that can't tackle
4. Team-wide inability to retain possession (relative to recent years)
 

Mastadon

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

I certainly agree that the midfield has to do a better job of screening the defence. We had the famous back 5 in 94 95 when we let in 49 goals as compared to the early Wenger years when we had Vieira and Petit in front of them and things were f**king solid. However, its not just down to the midfield judging by the number of errors made by our current defence this season and the number of times players are caught out of position.
 

musicmonkey

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

US_Gooner said:
1. Johan Djourou
2. Mid-field that doesn't like to play defense.
3. Backs that can't tackle
4. Team-wide inability to retain possession (relative to recent years)
1) I don't think you can blame Djourou really, it's the lack of cover at RB that was the issue, he shouldn't have been played there and tbh he's probably one of the best fourth choice CB of the league.

3) Their tackling hasn't been a problem, not like we've given away too many fouls (genuine fouls that aren't Ibrahimovic falling over his own legs anyway). If anything the problem is that our defenders aren't anywhere near the striker to tackle them because of our shoddy positioning.

4) I wouldn't say it's so much how often we lose possession, we still have a very high possession count in the league, but when we do give it away it's in the stupidest places which puts the defense under a lot of pressure.
 

Vinci

The Sultan of Unai

Country: Netherlands
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

It's obvious we have been hit once again by some sort of injury-crisis, fullbacks this time around. But United have had as much injuries this season as we have - Vidic out entire season - yet, they have conceded 20 less goals.

We just don't defend as a unit, if Vermaelen is going forward someone else should cover for him and stay back, but this rarely ever happens. Our midfield especially, except for Arteta, can't comprehend that. Song has been given a licence to roam and even though he has significantly bumped up his assists this season, the times he loses possession because he is trying to be our playmaker and the times our defence is exposed because of it, nearly cancels out all of his forward endeavours.

Rosicky doesn't have the legs to track back an entire game, even though he is a great tackler and Ramsey works hard, but I feel it doesn't result in much and he could spend his energy more wisely.

Wenger really needs to change his game. The team needs to be drilled big time on how to defend and press as a unit. May be new to Wenger, as it wasn't ever really necessary with Graham's defence and their successors, the Invincibles. Wenger needs to realise that this side is different and a different approach is needed or nothing will change, despite having fine individual players.
 

RUS arsenal

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

musicmonkey said:
Our ridiculous vulnerability to counter attacks hasn't been brought up yet i don't think. The players need to sort themselves out organisationally, positionally and we need the literally anyone in the team to bust a ball to get back. Just having the numbers can instantly stop/slow a counter attack.
This doesn't get enough attention. But the problem isn't just lack of tracking back, most of the counter attacks we give up are us giving the ball away in really bad positions that doesn't really give anybody a chance to get back and on what seem to be really easy passes too. This is another area that is magnified when Arteta isn't on the pitch.

We have seen it all too many times, Song/Ramsey/Santos/etc have the ball in our half or close to it with most of our team forward waiting to start an attack and what should be a short simple pass to an open Arsenal player nearby ends up at the feet of an opposing player who now has acres of space to exploit with many of our players just too far forward to help out.

Lack of concentration for the full 90 minutes seems to be our main issue in my eyes.
 

AFCG7

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

Lack on concentration is the biggest issue. Seems like some of our players randomly switch off during games and this usually costs us. Why is our play so lethargic at times when we are a goal up? Wenger's successful teams were always hungry , wanting the ball back after e have lost it..these players we have now seem to be comfortable waiting for somebody else on the team to react , especially when we are facing a counter.
 

Taylor Gang Gunners

Say Yeh or You're Making The List
Trusted ā­
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

AFCG7 said:
Lack on concentration is the biggest issue. Seems like some of our players randomly switch off during games and this usually costs us. Why is our play so lethargic at times when we are a goal up? Wenger's successful teams were always hungry , wanting the ball back after e have lost it..these players we have now seem to be comfortable waiting for somebody else on the team to react , especially when we are facing a counter.

I agree, the lack of concentration our defence shows sometimes is worrying.

I hate to victimise our players but Johan Djourou easily has the worst concentration span. If our defence remained completely focussed for 90+ minutes each game I have no doubt we'd concede less, our first choice defenders have immense individual ability.

Another argument could be the tactics used, which is ultimately another argument entirely. I can only assume Wenger's instructions to his defence in the invincible's era is hugely different to that of this era.
 

mistaT

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

Lack of concentration and poor coaching.

Wenger probably more so than any major coach looks to empower his players by allowing them "to play". Vermalean is a perfect example of this - please name another CB with the freedom that he enjoys.

We chastise the likes of Luiz when they go forward yet applaud Vermalean because of a few odd goals.
 

Herbas

Well-Known Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

All team participated in conceding 49 goals.
We have inexperienced goalkeeper.
Our first choice backline rarely plays together.
Our midfielders are trying too much and regularly go missing.
Most of our attacking players just love to lose the ball.

There is no composure or calmness in our play, we often seem to be unsure how to play and so on.
 

Bossa

Established Member
Re: 49 goals conceded : What is wrong with the defence?

Reasons:
-Poor midfield setup(defensive)

-Fullbacks who are too high up the pitch(often both at the same time)

-Lack of a defensive shape and understanding with eachother from our back 4 plus DM's.

-Vermaelen who is out of position all the time.

I don't think that there's much wrong with the individuals though. TV is a beast but he needs more discipline imo.
 
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