Aaron Ramsey (Out)

Discussion in 'Transfer Rumours' started by bingobob, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. CurryFlavoured

    CurryFlavoured Well-Known Member

    Ramsey is a 'moments' player, albeit his moments are often great and I appreciate what he's done here. But he lacks the midfield fundamentals to consistently influence games, and he's too injury prone. When he's not scoring he's often not performing.

    The problem with this isn't that I think he's irreplaceable, but more that it just adds another name to the list of players that we'll need to sign a replacement for.
     
  2. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Well-Known Member

    Couldn't 'moments' just be a synonym for 'end product'?
     
  3. Divided_Pie

    Divided_Pie Active Member

    "end product" implies that ramsey is a clinical finisher or plays great final balls that lead directly to goals, and it doesn't imply any weakness

    "moments" does not necessary imply a particular skill, but it does imply a lack of consistency/reliability

    "moments" is definitely more accurate when describing Ramsey
     
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  4. CurryFlavoured

    CurryFlavoured Well-Known Member

    If you'd like. My point is that his major influence on a game is in the attacking 1/3rd, when the main function of a midfielder should be to distribute, receive, tackle, cover position. He's a bit average in all of those aspects.

    I'm not cheering for him to leave, but I don't rate him as high as many on here. I wouldn't expect Ramsey to move to a much better club than Arsenal.
     
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  5. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Well-Known Member

    I don't think 'end product' implies either of those things, it just implies that at some point an end product i.e a goal or assist is produced. You can have end product and still not be clinical or still have weaknesses.

    I'd argue both Ramsey and Wilshere are generally 'moments' players, one just has more end product than the other. Neither are running games like a truly elite central midfielder, neither are anywhere near the level of a Modric or a KDB. But if I had to pick right now I'd pick the one with end product over the one without.
     
  6. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Well-Known Member

    That's fair enough. I like him and think it'd be lunacy to sell him, not only because I think he has a role to play here but because I agree with you, I don't see him going to a markedly bigger club. He's good, certainly good enough for us, but not so good that he could have his pick of clubs to go to.

    I think a new manager would come in, take one look at Ramsey and conclude that he needs to play as the most advanced CM in a 4-3-3. It's a bit of a shame to me that he's not been used like that, which is why I really fear the prospect of him going to Liverpool, because I know that's exactly how he'd be used.
     
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  7. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Well-Known Member

    I realise obviously there's a slight problem in that, because a new manager would also conclude Özil needs to be played as the CAM in a 4-2-3-1 and that Xhaka needs to be played as the DLP next to a DM. It doesn't all fit neatly together.
     
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  8. Divided_Pie

    Divided_Pie Active Member

    I prefer to play Wilshere over Ramsey, as his strengths (when played correctly, at CM, rather than incorrectly, at AM or LW) tend to help the other players. His technical skills and ability to break through the press with his dribbling takes pressure off of the back five and his CM partner). His runs tend to be less frequent and not as deep as Ramsey's, and his passing, both short and long, is better.

    Ramsey's playing style only hurts the other players - it leaves the other CM alone when defending or when trying to take the ball off of the CMs. It also crowds the space around the other AMs, limiting their movement options. Lastly, it causes the AMs to drop deep to help the CM partner that Ramsey has abandoned, taking the likes of Özil and Mhki out of attacking positions.

    In short, whether it's his instructions or just his hard-headed glory-hunting, Ramsey's playing style is selfish, does not help his teammates, and ultimately does more harm than good.

    I think the pairing that gives Arsenal the best chance to win is Wilshere/Elneny.
     
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  9. Divided_Pie

    Divided_Pie Active Member

    Exactly, if you are choosing which player to design your tactics around, you choose Özil. That rules out a 4-3-3.

    Then you are choosing your CMs. If you play Ramsey there then you must have a world class defensive mid who can cover lots of space who is a good tackler and also great technically as he must be able to keep possession against the press as well as start attacks. If you don't have that player then Ramsey doesn't fit. Xhaka and Wilshere are not that player so if you choose to play Ramsey at CM then those two are squad depth at best.

    So basically if we want to play Ramsey we need to get Fabinho. Even a guy like Ndidi won't cut it since he lacks the necessary skills on the ball.

    I think you need to go back and read your post about needing midfielders who aren't reliant on other midfielders to do their midfielding. ;^)
     
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  10. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Well-Known Member

    Never said I wasn't a hypocrite, just a football fan. Comes with the territory ;)
     
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  11. Token Yank

    Token Yank Well-Known Member

    I would gladly dump Xhaka and Ramsey and break the bank for Ndidi and Fabinho. I am certainly not an expert, but Ndidi is a lot better on the ball than given credit for. Plus he is only 21.

    Ramsey is incredibly overrated imo and I like the description of being a ‘moments’ player. Even during his incredible season, he would play like crap all game then scores a goal and everyone forgot about the abject performance.
     
  12. Rex Banner

    Rex Banner Massive SAFophile Trusted

    That's simply not true, he was averaging as the best midfielder in Europe for several months ahead of the likes of Modric and Vidal in multiple facets of midfield play.
     
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  13. Token Yank

    Token Yank Well-Known Member

    I will take your word for it. Still don't care if we sell him to start the rebuilding process. I have never been the biggest fan, just my opinion. He is too inconsistent for me. You never know if you're going to get a hard working, gritty performance or if he is going to bomb forward all game with his arms in the air calling for the ball.
     
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  14. krackpot

    krackpot Well-Known Member

    We're really selling all our goal scorers. Alexis, OG, and now Ramsey. Wonder where our goals are going to come?
     
  15. The_Playmaker

    The_Playmaker Well-Known Member

    It really isn't that bad if he leaves. The team needs to be built around Özil and Mhiki as creators with Auba and Lacazette as forwards. I'd rather sell Ramsey and replace him with someone like Lemar.

    -------------------Auba----------Laca

    ---------------------------Özil
    --------------Lemar----------------Mhiki

    --------------------------DM
     
  16. YeahBee

    YeahBee Sign all the Swedes

    No

    We've gone down the line with too many playmakers before

    Never worked before so why should it now?
     
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  17. Garrincha

    Garrincha AM Resident Joker #2

    The positive of him going is being able to sign preferably two well rounded midfielders to anchor the team.

    Then let Özil shine in front with Aubameyang leading the line & two wide players to spread play.

    Enough with these intricate formations & niche players... Özil is enough! Fitting in any more just arrogant in our position.
     
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  18. The_Playmaker

    The_Playmaker Well-Known Member

    Our problem is creating goals and defending. Our problem isn't the finishing. We cannot afford to buy wide players as well as defenders, central midfielders and a goal keeper. What we have is two very good finishers, and two creators. It makes sense to build around Lacazette, Özil, Mhiki and Auba seeing as they have long term contracts. I'd rather provide them with a solid defensive unit that split game time between Auba and Laca who are two different forwards.
     
  19. NieThePiet

    NieThePiet Part Time Werder Bremen Fan

    Ramsey could easily choose between United, Chelsea and Liverpool.

    Think Chelsea will miss the CL too, so he will choose between Liverpool and United. He has better starter chances at United and they don't have many good CM's and get's a big wage.

    Don't know, why he should sign a new contract. Despite his injurys he is too good for us at the moment and he never get's the credit from the fans he deserves.
     
  20. YeahBee

    YeahBee Sign all the Swedes

    A competent manager should be able to setup a great midfield with

    jack, Xhaka, Ramsey

    together they have everything you need from a midfield

    they compliment each other nicely, neither of them are out and out ballwinner but they won't be bossed around and can all get stuck in

    Ramsey can bomb forward and not leave the midfield exposed

    Xhaka doesn't have to go forward and have his lack of speed be seen
    he stays in the middle, drops down if needed

    Jack tie everything together

    a solid almost purely ballwinning midfielder to compliment sure up the defensive against the big sides , and could play with 2 of any the 3

    Mkith can cover for either Jack or Ramsey (and obviously for Özil)

    Wingbacks can provide width, either striker can drift out and there is still one left (plus Özil and someone from midfield

    Jack can go doen the wing if needed and ramsey to

    4-3-1-2 does anybody have a logical argument against it?
     
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