Ainsley Maitland-Niles: Midfielder or in deNile?

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
AMN and Willock need to be some of the first names on the team sheet for an EPL to further their development and give them a chance at playing for us.

You frame this as very matter of fact, but it is something to just agree to disagree on, and based on comments above and others I have seen I think it is pretty safe to say the majority is more with my stance. All I ask for, and I think what the players themselves would ask for, is a genuine meritocracy. If they have a run into form there should be no inhibitions from a manager to give them more starts over the more established players. That’s how it should be. We should be shedding Elneny and Ceballos this summer, but even if we brought in a player like Bissouma or Berge it wouldn’t be enough for overall numbers. That’s where AMN and/or Willock come in.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted
You frame this as very matter of fact, but it is something to just agree to disagree on, and based on comments above and others I have seen I think it is pretty safe to say the majority is more with my stance. All I ask for, and I think what the players themselves would ask for, is a genuine meritocracy. If they have a run into form there should be no inhibitions from a manager to give them more starts over the more established players. That’s how it should be. We should be shedding Elneny and Ceballos this summer, but even if we brought in a player like Bissouma or Berge it wouldn’t be enough for overall numbers. That’s where AMN and/or Willock come in.
Yeah exactly. It’s easily forgotten how abysmal our so called starters were before Christmas while these guys who’d run through a brick wall for the club were tearing it up in Europe, only to be ignored again.

It’s not that AMN or Willock didn’t get any chances at all, it’s that whether they played well or badly, they’d get benched the next game.

Same thing happened to Nelson who disappeared after the back end of last season.

People carry on like these young players have Henry, Bergkamp and Vieira ahead of them rather than a bunch of overpaid medium-to-good payroll leeches.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
Yeah exactly. It’s easily forgotten how abysmal our so called starters were before Christmas while these guys who’d run through a brick wall for the club were tearing it up in Europe, only to be ignored again.

It’s not that AMN or Willock didn’t get any chances at all, it’s that whether they played well or badly, they’d get benched the next game.

Same thing happened to Nelson who disappeared after the back end of last season.

People carry on like these young players have Henry, Bergkamp and Vieira ahead of them rather than a bunch of overpaid medium-to-good payroll leeches.

These players who have identity with Arsenal and came up through the academy often are willing to sacrifice a little to retain genuine opportunity at Arsenal. It is a factor often overlooked, but it can be gold for overall squad depth and the right culture/spirit in the dressing room. We often cannot afford to buy domestic players from within the PL, but this is next best thing. Not being xenophobic, but buying top quality technical from all over the world does not get you squad cohesiveness and overall pride in playing for Arsenal beyond the paycheques and living nicely in London. We need these kind of players for overall gelling.
 

dka91

Well-Known Member
Yeah exactly. It’s easily forgotten how abysmal our so called starters were before Christmas while these guys who’d run through a brick wall for the club were tearing it up in Europe, only to be ignored again.

It’s not that AMN or Willock didn’t get any chances at all, it’s that whether they played well or badly, they’d get benched the next game.

Same thing happened to Nelson who disappeared after the back end of last season.

People carry on like these young players have Henry, Bergkamp and Vieira ahead of them rather than a bunch of overpaid medium-to-good payroll leeches.

Some common sense, jeeeezuz christ.

Like it boils down to two things for me, because it's not a straightforward - chuck in all the keeds!

1. Our senior players ain't really all that let's be real. If we had a star studded squad (glares at City) or we had the invincibles then sure, I wouldn't say a peep about certain man not getting a chance.

But the point is that our first team isn't good enough consistently enough for Nelson, AMN, Willock, Saliba, Martinelli (until Sunday) not to get a chance, or more of a chance.

2. I sort of feel like Arteta thinks it's an all or nothing with some positions, or some players?

No my brother, it really isn't. You can give AMN 20 minutes maybe three or four games in a row. You don't have to start him every match, but a consistent gradient of playing time could be really beneficial.

Again, the guy ahead of him is hardly lighting it up so it's not like there's a risk of a huge drop off if AMN pops in for 15-20 mins a game.

But the disappearing act with certain players? I expect more and better than that especially considering our limited resources.

Sort it out Tets.
 

GunnerBP

Well-Known Member
Trusted
You frame this as very matter of fact, but it is something to just agree to disagree on, and based on comments above and others I have seen I think it is pretty safe to say the majority is more with my stance. All I ask for, and I think what the players themselves would ask for, is a genuine meritocracy. If they have a run into form there should be no inhibitions from a manager to give them more starts over the more established players. That’s how it should be. We should be shedding Elneny and Ceballos this summer, but even if we brought in a player like Bissouma or Berge it wouldn’t be enough for overall numbers. That’s where AMN and/or Willock come in.
But Willock and AMN did get chances. Willock has been in and out of the team for a couple of seasons, but not good enough to be a regular starter. AMN got a bunch of minutes and was even called up to England, but for various reasons he never got a significant run of matches in his preferred position. They obviously needed a change to further their development.

I'm anything but a fan of Elneny and Ceballos, and I think AMN should have gotten more chances at CM.

These two loans have given AMN and Willock game time that they would not have gotten here even if Arteta preferred them to Elneny and Ceballos. When they come back in the summer, they should be better players. Hopefully, Arteta does something smart with them when they come back.
 

Geofranco

Well-Known Member
AMN was pissing off WBA fans before yesterday's game, and people think he's good enough to be getting more minutes for us? Are you all for real? AMN is clearly a great athlete but a terrible footballer and I have a hard time understanding why people think he would make for a good midfielder.

I don't think he is a terrible footballer. It's more about his attitude and mentality. He was one of the most valuable players on the team in the back end of the 19/20 season on the way to winning the FA cup. He is a very good one v one defender. He just needs to embrace the role as a RB who can occasionally play LB. Once he gets out of his own head and stops trying to be too cool for school all the time, he can be a very valuable asset to this team. I rate him higher than Bellerin, better defensively and combines better with the wingers too.
 

jato

Member
If they are good enough for Arsenal, they should be in the top few players for their on loan clubs because if they can't even do that, how can they even get playing time with Arsenal? ESR showed that when he went to Huddersfield and even Calum Chambers did it for Fulham but we haven't seen AMN anywhere near that.

He has the speed and versatility to be a wing back but does not have the technicality, decision making or passing to be a CM. Happy for AMN to be sold (and Bellerin) in summer to continue the rebuild.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
If they are good enough for Arsenal, they should be in the top few players for their on loan clubs because if they can't even do that, how can they even get playing time with Arsenal? ESR showed that when he went to Huddersfield and even Calum Chambers did it for Fulham but we haven't seen AMN anywhere near that.

He has the speed and versatility to be a wing back but does not have the technicality, decision making or passing to be a CM. Happy for AMN to be sold (and Bellerin) in summer to continue the rebuild.

... but you would be happy to keep one of Elneny and Ceballos? We probably will bring in someone like Bissouma but that’s only one of two of those to make up for, and a lot of our transfer funds (despite sales) likely will end up on Ødegaard if we want him, someone like Hakimi for RB, and someone like Edouard for CF.
 

Beksl

Sell All The Youngsters
Both Willock and AMN found their level at their respective clubs. It's not a coincidence those clubs are bottom of the barrel stuff and thus relegation fodder.

We saw enough evidence they're not good enough for Arsenal so this revisionism in the last few pages is unnecessary. Hopefully they perform until the end of the season so we can make a buck or two and reinvest.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted
AMN was pissing off WBA fans before yesterday's game, and people think he's good enough to be getting more minutes for us? Are you all for real? AMN is clearly a great athlete but a terrible footballer and I have a hard time understanding why people think he would make for a good midfielder.

You’re missing the point entirely. We’re saying he, and anyone else who’s earned recognition, should be given at least the same treatment as someone like Willian, Ceballos and Elneny.

If you collect consecutive MotMs in a cup semi, final and community shield, you should be in the frame to start the season with some game time in your favoured position over a returning loanee who flopped in the Turkish league.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
You’re missing the point entirely. We’re saying he, and anyone else who’s earned recognition, should be given at least the same treatment as someone like Willian, Ceballos and Elneny.

If you collect consecutive MotMs in a cup semi, final and community shield, you should be in the frame to start the season with some game time in your favoured position over a returning loanee who flopped in the Turkish league.

Amen. I see a comment above talking about revisionism. The only revisionism here is mischaracterisation of comments posted. We’re talking about a situation where Elneny and Ceballos have been given loads of game time, and we’re also talking about assembling of an overall squad, not necessarily 25 worldies, because only City can do that kind of thing.
 

GoonerJeeves

Up The Terriers
Trusted
AMN's value for us lies in us getting a decent fee. That can be reinvested in the playing squad. Willock might have an outside chance of making it here, but Nketiah is living on borrowed time too.

This is normal for a club of Arsenal's size. Few of our youngsters will make it here, but many will go on to have successful careers in football in other clubs.
 

Goonger

Well-Known Member
It's mental. One good performance against a Southampton team with 1 eye on their semi final at the weekend & it's used as another reason to bash Arteta.

Same with Willock, who's doing ok, but even he's not started the last 2 games & the game before that he got hooked off after an hour with Newcastle losing 2-0 to Brighton.
 

Iceman10

Well-Known Member
It's mental. One good performance against a Southampton team with 1 eye on their semi final at the weekend & it's used as another reason to bash Arteta.

Same with Willock, who's doing ok, but even he's not started the last 2 games & the game before that he got hooked off after an hour with Newcastle losing 2-0 to Brighton.

If you want to say people bringing up AMN and Willock to make up at least one CM spot in our squad next season (in addition to Bissouma or alternate while Elneny and Ceballos leave) is about an agenda against Arteta you are free to do so, but you risk conflating such an accusation in with anyone primarily talking about what they genuinely see in best interests of Arsenal. That’s a lot about what this is by the way @GoonerJeeves, I would of course want Elneny sold with one year left on his contract, and I don’t want us spending 20m on Ceballos either.
 

Big Poppa

Established Member
Trusted
It's mental. One good performance against a Southampton team with 1 eye on their semi final at the weekend & it's used as another reason to bash Arteta.

Same with Willock, who's doing ok, but even he's not started the last 2 games & the game before that he got hooked off after an hour with Newcastle losing 2-0 to Brighton.
You've skim read this thread it seems. The topic is way broader than recent loan performances.
 

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