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Alexandre Lacazette: 2019/20 Performances

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Am I misunderstanding the word agenda? I thought it was just a things to be discussed? Like football player and their pros and cons being discussed on football forum?
 

Tir Na Nog

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Country: Ireland
By the way are we just gonna ignore that with Lacazette it isn't even just about the goals and no just focusing on the games he started doesn't wash with me, it is possible to score off the bench. But regardless, he's terrible as an outlet. He's not a great player for transitions. He can't be a target man. I think his link up play is hugely overrated at at times he hogs onto the ball and makes a lot of poor decisions anyways. So in these away games where he isn't scoring he usually isn't even offering the team much anyways. Also in the 3-2 defeat to Chelsea he came off the bench, did his usual hogging onto the ball because he doesn't have the pace or strength to do anything worthwhile, ends up losing possession and Chelsea score the winner. But because he didn't start I guess we should just ignore this and pretend it never happened.

He's a £55 million striker, should we not expect him to offer anything coming off the bench? Giroud used to always get goals as a sub. Even still 4 goals in 12 starts is still quite mediocre. Auba has matched that in 5 starts this season, that's under half of the starts Laca had in away games last season. Not only that but Auba is providing constant movement and constant threat in behind which is vital for away games. Imaging how much more difficult it is for the opposition defence knowing Auba is ready to pounce than with Laca as the main CF. In one instance the CB's can't really push up or play a high line because they'll get caught out, in the other they don't have to worry too much as Laca usually does his best work in and around the box, even more so when the team he's playing for is dominating the opposition and pinning them back. In away games it's quite rare that we'll be as dominant, even less so with the style we're playing nowadays. You need a striker like Auba more than someone like Laca. 4 goals in 5 starts this season is evidence enough. Laca is a great back up striker/support striker in a 2. He'll never be a great lone striker. People just have to accept this.

The last couple of pages there's been a lot of semantics and a lot of straw clutching with him. There's a reason Mourinho gave such a damning verdict of him a couple of years ago. This is a man who's worked with Drogba as his CF, with Costa, Milito, Higuain, Benzema, Lukaku. I think he knows what makes a good CF. There's a reason why despite knowing about him for years when we could have got him a lot cheaper, Wenger never signed him before we did and we all know the last few years there's been some disputes about what was a Wenger signing and what wasn't. Why didn't we go for him the year before after the Vardy bid failed? And there's a reason why he's very rarely called up for France. Certainly not in the serious games. While everyone's favourite whipping boy Giroud is first choice.
 

A_G

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Mourinho didn't actually criticise Lacazette though, it was an "unamed source" in the press which could've been anyone at the club. They did the same thing the year before when they told Sky that they didn't go for Vardy because they thought Rashford was better.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
By the way are we just gonna ignore that with Lacazette it isn't even just about the goals and no just focusing on the games he started doesn't wash with me, it is possible to score off the bench. But regardless, he's terrible as an outlet. He's not a great player for transitions. He can't be a target man. I think his link up play is hugely overrated at at times he hogs onto the ball and makes a lot of poor decisions anyways. So in these away games where he isn't scoring he usually isn't even offering the team much anyways. Also in the 3-2 defeat to Chelsea he came off the bench, did his usual hogging onto the ball because he doesn't have the pace or strength to do anything worthwhile, ends up losing possession and Chelsea score the winner. But because he didn't start I guess we should just ignore this and pretend it never happened.

He's a £55 million striker, should we not expect him to offer anything coming off the bench? Giroud used to always get goals as a sub. Even still 4 goals in 12 starts is still quite mediocre. Auba has matched that in 5 starts this season, that's under half of the starts Laca had in away games last season. Not only that but Auba is providing constant movement and constant threat in behind which is vital for away games. Imaging how much more difficult it is for the opposition defence knowing Auba is ready to pounce than with Laca as the main CF. In one instance the CB's can't really push up or play a high line because they'll get caught out, in the other they don't have to worry too much as Laca usually does his best work in and around the box, even more so when the team he's playing for is dominating the opposition and pinning them back. In away games it's quite rare that we'll be as dominant, even less so with the style we're playing nowadays. You need a striker like Auba more than someone like Laca. 4 goals in 5 starts this season is evidence enough. Laca is a great back up striker/support striker in a 2. He'll never be a great lone striker. People just have to accept this.

The last couple of pages there's been a lot of semantics and a lot of straw clutching with him. There's a reason Mourinho gave such a damning verdict of him a couple of years ago. This is a man who's worked with Drogba as his CF, with Costa, Milito, Higuain, Benzema, Lukaku. I think he knows what makes a good CF. There's a reason why despite knowing about him for years when we could have got him a lot cheaper, Wenger never signed him before we did and we all know the last few years there's been some disputes about what was a Wenger signing and what wasn't. Why didn't we go for him the year before after the Vardy bid failed? And there's a reason why he's very rarely called up for France. Certainly not in the serious games. While everyone's favourite whipping boy Giroud is first choice.

Why would Laca have been cheaper when he had a lot more years on contract? And probably wasn't feeling like he was ready yet to change country?

I think they sold him when he had 2 years left, and it's the last time you can get good money when player doesn't want to extend anymore. It's Aulas, he is a hard bargain.

Also Wenger wasn't probably ready to put even more money than 53 million euros (from Transfermarkt) without him having a few great seasons as a striker.
 

#254

Well-Known Member
A few weeks ago I posted the post below in this thread. I was hoping it would atleast move the debate further along. Obviously I was wrong and we are back to debating why Laca only scored 4 away goals last season.
Hadn't seen that post mate. It really is a good one. Should kill most of the arguments of the Laca agenda band.
I don't understand why anyone would have an agenda for one of their best players who is rated by most people who matter in football, and still claim to support the club!
 

Rex Stone

Long live the fighters
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Country: Wales
Mourinho didn't actually criticise Lacazette though, it was an "unamed source" in the press which could've been anyone at the club. They did the same thing the year before when they told Sky that they didn't go for Vardy because they thought Rashford was better.

Also let’s not forget Mourinho sanctioned a move for Lukaku who scored a grand total of one more league goal than Lacazette the last two seasons despite costing almost twice as much.
 

drippin

Obsessed with "Mature Trusted Members"

Country: Finland
Also let’s not forget Mourinho sanctioned a move for Lukaku who scored a grand total of one more league goal than Lacazette the last two seasons despite costing almost twice as much.

Knows his strikers for sure. Lukaku fits the definition of a true donkey (although he has his qualities and is not bad). Paying 32 million euros more for him than Wenger for Laca. Lukaku is younger of course, but they lost at least 20 million euros in that deal.

Lukaku 1st season point per 125 minutes. 2nd season point per 164 minutes.

Lacazette 1st season point per 116 minutes, 2nd season point per 119 minutes. While coming from another league and also playing injured.
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
Firmino in EPL: 1st season point per 117 minutes, 2nd 170 minutes, 3rd 126 minutes, 4th 146 minutes, current 124 minutes.

I took stats from EPL home page and minutes from Transfermarkt. Cannot find minutes in EPL site. Transfermarkt in some seasons has more assists for Firmino and Lacazette than the EPL site.

I would be interested to see some defensive stats comparison with Firmino and Lacazette, offensive at least were pretty equal.
 
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Rex Stone

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Fwiw I don’t think he’s a top player and probably wasn’t worth 50M but he’s still really good in a lot of aspects.

He’s far from the problem in this team, I think he opens up a lot of space for Auba and although he’s a bit inconsistent on his day he can boss a game.
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
Fwiw I don’t think he’s a top player and probably wasn’t worth 50M but he’s still really good in a lot of aspects.

He’s far from the problem in this team, I think he opens up a lot of space for Auba and although he’s a bit inconsistent on his day he can boss a game.

53 million euros is not that much in current market for a proven striker?

Atletico transfer ban affecting your evaluation? ;) :D How is Morata working out at 56 million euros?

1st season in LaLiga point per 156 minutes, current season point per 351 minutes (according to Transfermarkt).
 

Rex Stone

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53 million euros is not that much in current market for a proven striker?

Atletico transfer ban affecting your evaluation? ;) :D How is Morata working out at 56 million euros?

1st season in LaLiga point per 156 minutes, current season point per 351 minutes (according to Transfermarkt).

I mean Morata is even worse and has no place being called a top striker. We’ve struggled for goals massively this year and he’s a big part of the reason.

In terms of the best strikers I’d say Laca isn’t at that level either.
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
I mean Morata is even worse and has no place being called a top striker. We’ve struggled for goals massively this year and he’s a big part of the reason.

In terms of the best strikers I’d say Laca isn’t at that level either.

Morata has the problem that he hasn't proved himself anywhere basically as a starter.

Yeah, I understand. How do you view Firmino? Is he at that level?

From what I have seen in stats it seems Lacazette is very close to him. Only the defensive side I'm not sure about. Would be great is someone had comparison of that from last season. Laca has work-rate too.
 

Rex Stone

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Morata has the problem that he hasn't proved himself anywhere basically as a starter.

Yeah, I understand. How do you view Firmino? Is he at that level?

From what I have seen in stats it seems Lacazette is very close to him. Only the defensive side I'm not sure about. Would be great is someone had comparison of that from last season. Laca has work-rate too.

I don’t think Firmino is a striker, he’s essentially a number 10 in Liverpool’s system while Salah and Mane are pushed up almost as wide strikers.

Laca falls well short of Firmino creatively for me.
 

drippin

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Country: Finland
I don’t think Firmino is a striker, he’s essentially a number 10 in Liverpool’s system while Salah and Mane are pushed up almost as wide strikers.

Laca falls well short of Firmino creatively for me.

Well I don't think Laca is a clear 9 when Auba is on the wing. They switch and Laca is coming to defend etc.

I cannot upload a picture here, wtf. And understat.com doesn't allow to copy paste link to the picture. Anyway, you can find it here: https://understat.com/player/3277, and put Firmino to comparison, and choose season 2018/2019.

Laca first, Firmino in brackets:

xGChain90 0.80 (vs 0.83)
xGBuildup90 0.32 (vs 0.31)
G90 0.47 (vs 0.41)
xG90 0.43 (vs 0.47)
Sh90 2.92 (vs 2.57)
A90 0.29 (vs 0.21)
xA90 0.15 (vs 0.22)
KP 90 1.12 (vs 1.47)

What do you base on the "falls well short of Firmino creatively"? That sounds like a very big difference. Laca has surprisingly similar stats here for a "totally non false 9".

Take into account the quality difference in one winger and at least one fullback between the teams last season (Jenkinson/Lichtsteiner + Iwobi/Mkhi). Them making mistakes naturally affects Laca's stats.
 
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