Alexandre Lacazette (Out)

[yorch44]

Some forgetting a modern CF doesn't need to score ton of goals. Giroud was key role in winning WC without scoring. Because his manager asked him to play for the wingers.

Lacazette was asked to do similar the last 5 games. He linked pretty well with Ceballos and play it to Pepe (suddenly he looked better isn't it?) Or Auba. He released the pressure and took the CB with him, creating holes for Auba and Pepe.

For the one saying he is average holding... No, he is pretty good holding and giving the ball to players with a better position to exploit the holes created. Yes he is not playing like a target man, but he is doing what he is asked for.

 

[The_Playmaker]

It's funny to read that because Pepe doesn't put in nearly as much effort as Laca does, yet he gets a pass because we paid big money for him, but his performances haven't been better than his in any way, shape or form.

People will bring up the same crap about a higher ceiling and being younger, but if he's still playing like last season this year, then we have a big problem with him.

Personally, I'm not a fan, even with his flashes of brilliance every once in a while because he's of no use next to the sidelines and he's been overhyped about his dribbling skills.

He needs to be closer to the box somehow to get something out of that left peg of his, which is quite something when he hits the ball right.

What are you basing the comment that he doesn't work as hard as Laca?

Lacazette presses and tracks back to tackle the central midfielder. You realise that's all he does? It looks like he's working extra hard because he is a CF.

Pepe makes run behind the defence. He ends up left and right. He is constantly making runs off the ball. He also presses aggressively and works hard to recover and protect his full back.

Defensively he puts one hell of a shift in, but also makes the runs in behind to match. I'd say Auba and Pepe work harder than Lacazette simply by the defensive runs they do plus the offensive runs they make. Full pace sprints to get to the ball.

Laca got dropped, not because Eddie is the superior footballer. It's because he can't run.

 

[KrissKringle]

What are you basing the comment that he doesn't work as hard as Laca?

Lacazette presses and tracks back to tackle the central midfielder. You realise that's all he does? It looks like he's working extra hard because he is a CF.

Pepe makes run behind the defence. He ends up left and right. He is constantly making runs off the ball. He also presses aggressively and works hard to recover and protect his full back.

Defensively he puts one hell of a shift in, but also makes the runs in behind to match. I'd say Auba and Pepe work harder than Lacazette simply by the defensive runs they do plus the offensive runs they make. Full pace sprints to get to the ball.

On watching games where Auba disappears entirely and Pepe for most of the season hasn't been doing much defensive work either.
Anyway, that's all you'll get from me, since you're one of the guys who thinks Edouard is a massive improvement and I got no time for Football Manager dudes.

 

[RunTheTrap]

Sticking with Lacazette because “he’s the best we have right now” is how you end up with mediocre players on big wages you can’t shift. Basically deadwood. I mean, sure, he finished the season strongly (after losing his place to Eddie) but what if next season he has another poor season? The same people who asked to keep him, will be the same ones saying we should have sold him. I think selling players at the right time could be the difference of getting £30 million or nothing because the player with a year left on their contract knows how much leverage they have. It basically forces the club to renew his contact and let’s be honest no one really wants Lacazette as their starting striker past 2022 or he walks away on a free like Ramsey and Welbeck did. We have the power, and the leverage. I’m sure Lacazette’s agent is aware of this.

I don’t see Lacazette vastly improving any time soon. In fact, he’s probably on the decline and I believe we could get good value for him or use him for transfer swaps.

 

[Arsenal1508]

Sell him. If you can get 10 million, you take it just to release his wages. If we play hardball, there will be no takers. He is 29, and unfit. We obviously dontvplay to his strengths either.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

On watching games where Auba disappears entirely and Pepe for most of the season hasn't been doing much defensive work either.
Anyway, that's all you'll get from me, since you're one of the guys who thinks Edouard is a massive improvement and I got no time for Football Manager dudes.

Auba's work rate is fantastic not quite sure what you're on about here.

We go down two roads with Lacazette...

Sell for 25-35M and reinvest.
Give him a new deal worth 200k+ a week which he doesnt deserve.

He is 30 next year, you have to sell him now.

 

[MD3 Gunner]

Love Lacazette but we're in a position where we can get a decent fee for him (30m), next summer will likely cost no more than 15m with only 1 year left on his contract and him turning 30

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Well I agree with most points there. The only issue is that its going to be almost impossible to have a team which creates double the amount of chances while playing with a flat two midfield and with pepe,Auba and Laca front 3. This formation needs him to play as a link player because there is no ball retention in the midfield. Laca hardly finds himself facing the goal near the opposition box.
Don`t think Laca is a bad player at all. In fact the only problem with Laca is that he is kind of Jack of all trades but master of none w.r.t Center Forward play. With respect to our forward line, if we have to lose one among Auba, Laca and Pepe, It would have to be Laca for me though.

Fair enough, I guess the rate in which our creativity will increase is a subject for debate, but for now I'm really confident that you will see such a dramatic spike.

Besides all the other arguments I've provided, the notion of Laca dropping deep, working a lot and being a workhorse certainly did not help his numbers also.

 

[Dutch D]

The problem with this argument is that it relies on a lot of uncertainties. If we could sell Laca, buy Eduourd or Depay and guarantee them replicating their recent from in the EPL, I'll happily sign up for that.

But is Edouard even available? Has Depay's knee recovered? Will the Laca fee be sufficient to buy either? Why wouldn't whoever wants Laca just buy one of them instead?

I like the scenario where this happens, but it relies upon a number of things we can't control and some we can't predict.

Martinelli being fit and Nketiah being a year futher along in his development would make this a much easier decision for Arsenal. As it stands there is some fundamental risk, which makes it a less clear cut call. I can see him leaving, but I can also see (a bit like the Auba deal) that him leaving will dependent on other pieces falling into place.

I understand your arguments and I guess one can convincingly argue both sides.

To me it is decisive that he's 29 and second highest in wages considering players actually in the squad. I wouldn't buy a replacement at all, I'm perfectly happy with Nketiah as a back-up, but I rate him higher than most on here bar @MutableEarth perhaps.

I accept that there is then quite a drop off in quality between our starting striker (Auba for me) and the back-ups but that's the case for most teams. Use the Laca money to improve chance creation from midfield and Nketiah can also bag 10 goals a season like Laca.

We've lost out on too many fees as a club because we hang on to players for too long. Got to sell while we can. We're in a 2-3 year rebuild and Laca won't be there in that time. Neither will Auba but I hope we can all agree his contribution is vital to get top4.

I just gave some examples of affordable strikers if other people do want to go the route of replacing Laca as our striker and keeping Auba on the wings. I think Depay is definitely over his knee, seeing him play in the CL the other day.

 

[DennisTheLegend]

I understand your arguments and I guess one can convincingly argue both sides.

To me it is decisive that he's 29 and second highest in wages considering players actually in the squad. I wouldn't buy a replacement at all, I'm perfectly happy with Nketiah as a back-up, but I rate him higher than most on here bar @MutableEarth perhaps.

I accept that there is then quite a drop off in quality between our starting striker (Auba for me) and the back-ups but that's the case for most teams. Use the Laca money to improve chance creation from midfield and Nketiah can also bag 10 goals a season like Laca.

We've lost out on too many fees as a club because we hang on to players for too long. Got to sell while we can. We're in a 2-3 year rebuild and Laca won't be there in that time. Neither will Auba but I hope we can all agree his contribution is vital to get top4.

I just gave some examples of affordable strikers if other people do want to go the route of replacing Laca as our striker and keeping Auba on the wings. I think Depay is definitely over his knee, seeing him play in the CL the other day.

Why do we care about his valuation and sell on value? We could potentially waste that £30m on someone who doesn’t work out.

Should we not be keeping our experienced players. I can tell you for certain that anyone we bring in this first season won’t have his work ethic, strength and general hustle. Im interested to see this guy get a run of games with a decent creative player assisting. We saw how he performed when Fekir was supplying him at Lyon.

I’m against messing with our front 3 for now - Let’s not forget we got some big results vs LFC, City and Chelsea towards the end of the season.

 

[Dutch D]

Why do we care about his valuation and sell on value? We could potentially waste that £30m on someone who doesn’t work out.

I care because we've lost so much value failing to sell Ramsey, Alexis etc. For a long term rebuild back to the top, we need funds we can get from players who won't be there for the long term and aren't good enough to lift us up short term.

Of course, we could always waste the incoming fee on a poor transfer. That's the risk of doing business. I would say £180k/week for a bench player (again, I'm assuming Auba is moved centrally) is a waste when Nketiah (and Martinelli when he returns from injury) is a capable back-up ST in my eyes.

Should we not be keeping our experienced players. I can tell you for certain that anyone we bring in this first season won’t have his work ethic, strength and general hustle. Im interested to see this guy get a run of games with a decent creative player assisting. We saw how he performed when Fekir was supplying him at Lyon.

We should make sure the squad has a good balance in terms of experience and youthful prospects, but quality comes first. I was happy with signing Laca initially, but I've seen enough to see he lacks quality to be our first choice striker (even more so looking at the 21/22 season).

I’m against messing with our front 3 for now - Let’s not forget we got some big results vs LFC, City and Chelsea towards the end of the season.

I'm not denying he played a part in the good results towards the end of the season. I hope you're also not denying that despite the good results it was not good football. Not a strategy we can build on long-term unless you want Arsenal to transform into a park-the-bus, technically inferior team when playing against good sides.

I want us to (at least attempt to) get back to being a top squad ourselves. A technically (and physically) dominant force in the PL, competing for prizes with good football. I'm not sure I can stand many more years of piss poor football with barely any open play goals or beautifully created chances.

Lacazette has done a job. Cash in. Move the club forwards.

 

[drippin]

He didn't have good season, and at one point his performances were truly atrocious.

Had to check his stats vs Auba. Lacazette had 1879 minutes in EPL according to Transfermarkt, and Auba 3139 minutes.

Laca got 10+4 according to Premier League website, Auba got 22+3. Auba had 2 penalties, Laca 0.

So with my calculations Laca had a point per 134 minutes in EPL, which is worse than earlier seasons which were something like point per ~120 minutes if I remember correctly.

Auba had a point per 125,5 minutes in EPL. Without the two penalties he had a point per 136,5 minutes.

So while his season was not good, these stats surprised me. Laca missed 5 big chances and Auba 10. Laca created 4 big chances and Auba 7.

 

[HairSprayGooners]

He didn't have good season, and at one point his performances were truly atrocious.

Had to check his stats vs Auba. Lacazette had 1879 minutes in EPL according to Transfermarkt, and Auba 3139 minutes.

Laca got 10+4 according to Premier League website, Auba got 22+3. Auba had 2 penalties, Laca 0.

So with my calculations Laca had a point per 134 minutes in EPL, which is worse than earlier seasons which were something like point per ~120 minutes if I remember correctly.

Auba had a point per 125,5 minutes in EPL. Without the two penalties he had a point per 136,5 minutes.

So while his season was not good, these stats surprised me. Laca missed 5 big chances and Auba 10. Laca created 4 big chances and Auba 7.

Nobody should dispute that he is a good player but he's 29 with 2 years left on his deal at 180K a week. I wouldn't want to give him a 3 or 4 year contract on 200k+ a week. Its nonsensical and makes him impossible to shift in a year or two years time if he doesn't perform.

Getting £30M or even £25M for him this year and also getting almost 10m a year off the wage bill is huge.

 

[drippin]

Nobody should dispute that he is a good player but he's 29 with 2 years left on his deal at 180K a week. I wouldn't want to give him a 3 or 4 year contract on 200k+ a week. Its nonsensical and makes him impossible to shift in a year or two years time if he doesn't perform.

Getting £30M or even £25M for him this year and also getting almost 10m a year off the wage bill is huge.

As it looks like Auba is hopefully extending, I'm not too fussed about what happens to Laca. Like you say him going into last year of contract is not a good option.

But actually Laca's fate might affect if Auba renews. For sure he wants top 4 finish next season to get into UCL in later years. So I would think Auba wants as good or better straight performer if Laca goes, whether it be a striker or some other attacking player. I think this rules out some cheaper young striker options or Nketiah/Martinelli being the 2nd choice.

Replacing Laca with a straight performer in EPL is not cheap or easy with UEL. So this is a big dilemma. Something like 1 year extension might be good, also to see if Laca can get his performances to better levels. But Laca might not want to. Or maybe he can't demand an expensive contract after this season if he renews?

 

[moloso]

So reading the last few pages - we need to keep Lacazette because he works hard, we might waste the money, we don't need the money or he's actually really good but just hasn't proven it because of the rest of the team.

People have such low standards it's ridiculous. He puts in a shift yes, but it's not like he's Shane Long or even the Danny Welbeck we had. He doesn't work any harder than the average non flashy forward in the league. He doesn't have a run in behind in his game or movement like a Van Persie to get chances or create space.

Hold up play is again ok. Not world class, not even a level or two down from that. He can take a ball in, earn a free kick or pass it round the corner (not particularly accurately or any balls that aren't visible when watching the game) and has good feet in and around the box but this isn't his game!

He's not the worst striker we've ever had and yes if things were different, either his age/contract or the club's position on and off the pitch I wouldn't lose sleep over him being given another season but that's not the case.

 

[truth_hurts]

People who wants to sell laca and play aubameyang there shouldnt be allowed to watch football.

Auba can't do that job, he doesnt/ can't play with his back to goal, laca is the only option we have. Infact we need a younger version of laca to be his back and potential replacement. Keeping laca is vital

Football isn't so black and white. What is to say that we couldn't adapt our game to bring out another gear in Auba? The top 3 goal scorers in The Premier League last year were Vardy, Auba and Ings. Which of those is good in the air and great at hold up? I'll wait...

Yes, Laca is our best forward at holding the ball up and linking play, but he isn't dangerous the way he plays at the moment.

Auba scores the same amount of goals whether wide or cf and his time here has shown that. The two aren't mutually exclusive, but the question is - would you be happy to sacrifice Laca for a more direct, creative and fluid forward line?

I would swap Laca For a baller like Coutinho, a progressive dribbler like Zaha or even a creative Spark like Willian, Grealish or Lemar.

We need to stop thinking as a team under the cosh, needing to hit the cf on the halfway line for relief and more as a team who have a lot of the ball in the attacking third.

Do you think City give a toss about Aguero not having the best hold up play? Have you ever wondered why Chelsea have gone big on Werner? Or considered why Vardy won the golden boot?

Maybe you shouldn't watch football if you think that Auba would struggle to score goals (his job) as a cf.

 

[tap-in]

Makes me laugh when Laca fan boys say being a CF isnt all about scoring. Its like saying a CB isn't all about defending. Both statements are correct as there are other aspects to their roles but lets face it, you want your CF to score goals!

 

[Trilly]

Also want to point out that people saying 'Lacazette does what Giroud does but gets praise for it' is a lazy analysis.

Giroud played with a number 10 Lacazette doesn't. I think a younger Giroud would have done very well in this system while Lacazette would have done better than Giroud in the 4231 with Cazorla and Özil.

 

[Trilly]

Makes me laugh when Laca fan boys say being a CF isnt all about scoring. Its like saying a CB isn't all about defending. Both statements are correct as there are other aspects to their roles but lets face it, you want your CF to score goals!

I would swap Laca for Firmino in a heartbeat but they'd probably have a similar goal return.

Laca does okay with the chances he gets (post injury anyway), he just doesn't get that many due to his role. If he was quicker/fitter he could probably get in the box more often after his hold up play but that is a big ask for any player tbh.

 

[Trilly]

Love Lacazette but we're in a position where we can get a decent fee for him (30m), next summer will likely cost no more than 15m with only 1 year left on his contract and him turning 30

I want to build on the momentum we have, stats show that Auba & Pepe both play better with him in the side. I'd like to squeeze out one more season of that before we sell him. The market should recover a bit next year as well, combine that with a better individual season from Laca and I feel like we can get that 30M next summer as well.

Unless we're signing someone who is a proven linkman then I'd keep. Think our attack is close to being something special.