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Alexis Sanchez (Out)

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Gooner Zig

AM's Resident Accountant
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Country: Canada
Of course they matter but they matter less than goals, assists, xG, xA, xG chains, successful dribbles. All of which Alexis is either superior, or comfortably superior to Mhki.

There's only about half a dozen players in the world who are at least 75% (or greater) of Alexis' output in those above stats.
 

ArtetaCognition

Granit Xhaka Enthusiast

Country: Ireland
You don't think pass accuracy, bad passes, being dispossessed from the ball and poor touches matter? Because that's the rating (possession score) I was pointing out on the list. We'll see about the key passes and chances created, but you can't do either if you turn the ball over.

Attacking players, particularly penetrative dribbling players who cut inside like Alexis, will have higher amounts of turned over possession or failed short passes because they are trying to work through tighter spaces or break down the final (and thusly, more well structured) line of the defence.

In that regard, I would agree with him that the stats provided are irrelevant. I might even go as far as to say that if he barely ever lost the ball playing in his position it would be a huge warning sign given that it could signify a total lack of penetration.

Arsenal fans put too much emphasis on these types of stats and it's no wonder that our players often look creatively stifled when we loudly sigh everytime they try to express themselves and lose the ball. Look at his goals, assists and chances created - they are ultimately what matter.
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
Of course they matter but they matter less than goals, assists, xG, xA, xG chains, successful dribbles. All of which Alexis is either superior, or comfortably superior to Mhki.

There's only about half a dozen players in the world who are at least 75% (or greater) of Alexis' output in those above stats.

But my point wasn't about any of those statistics. Nobody is arguing that Alexis isn't superior in some respects. My point is that he's severely lacking in some as well.
 

Slartibartfast

CIES Loyalist
Attacking players, particularly penetrative dribbling players who cut inside like Alexis, will have higher amounts of turned over possession or failed short passes because they are trying to work through tighter spaces or break down the final (and thusly, more well structured) line of the defence.

In that regard, I would agree with him that the stats provided are irrelevant. I might even go as far as to say that if he barely ever lost the ball playing in his position it would be a huge warning sign given that it could signify a total lack of penetration.

Arsenal fans put too much emphasis on these types of stats and it's no wonder that our players often look creatively stifled when we loudly sigh everytime they try to express themselves and lose the ball. Look at his goals, assists and chances created - they are ultimately what matter.

So, how, then would you explain the fact that Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar manage to rack up superior possession scores, rather than negative ones, while doing the same things?

Screen_Shot_2018-01-21_at_10.53.23_PM.png
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
So, how, then would you explain the fact that Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar manage to rack up superior possession scores, rather than negative ones, while doing the same things?

Screen_Shot_2018-01-21_at_10.53.23_PM.png

Ronaldo rarely takes players on anymore. Messi is the best player to ever play the game. Neymar is one of the best dribblers ever.

Weird comparison. Essentially comparing an Audi to a Bugatti because they both drive fast. Not a single person on this planet with any knowledge of football would swap Sanchez for any of those three.
 

House MD

Active Member
You don't think pass accuracy, bad passes, being dispossessed from the ball and poor touches matter? Because that's the rating (possession score) I was pointing out on the list. We'll see about the key passes and chances created, but you can't do either if you turn the ball over.

Mkhi is just as infuriating in possession. He always lost possession and took the wrong decisions for us for months now.
 

MNUS

Member
Mkhi is just as infuriating in possession. He always lost possession and took the wrong decisions for us for months now.

And is no where near as direct as Alexis, he is more likely to play the least riskiest option too would go hiding in games when it got tough. He also isn't a dribbler of the ball like Alexis. Essentially comparing Alexis with Özil in those stats.
 

MkhiMagic

Active Member
And is no where near as direct as Alexis, he is more likely to play the least riskiest option too would go hiding in games when it got tough. He also isn't a dribbler of the ball like Alexis. Essentially comparing Alexis with Özil in those stats.
Doesn't sound like you've seen him play a lot. He is very direct, takes a lot of risks, tries to dribble through defenders, and does lose the ball a lot but the setup at United is largely to blame for that because there's no movement on that team and all the attackers are stranded on an island by themselves.

Just ask any United fan if they've ever seen any player attempt as many nutmegs as Mkhitaryan.
 

RacingPhoton

Established Member
Attacking players, particularly penetrative dribbling players who cut inside like Alexis, will have higher amounts of turned over possession or failed short passes because they are trying to work through tighter spaces or break down the final (and thusly, more well structured) line of the defence.

In that regard, I would agree with him that the stats provided are irrelevant. I might even go as far as to say that if he barely ever lost the ball playing in his position it would be a huge warning sign given that it could signify a total lack of penetration.

Arsenal fans put too much emphasis on these types of stats and it's no wonder that our players often look creatively stifled when we loudly sigh everytime they try to express themselves and lose the ball. Look at his goals, assists and chances created - they are ultimately what matter.
This.
Our team has been set up to play attacking football for years. With the full backs moving up to assist the attack, we are bound to give away goals. No matter how strong our CB's and goal keeper are, we are going to be exposed more often than other teams. When playing with such a strategy, we should compensate for that by scoring more goals. We should have more 4-2 and 5-3 victories.

But we are not getting them and our number of goals scored over a season is less because we are not taking that risk in the box. Everyone except Özil and Sanchez are afraid to make that killer pass. We end up running in circles outside the box passing from one end to the other. Our team has been afraid of being creative because of the fear of losing ball. Both Özil and Sanchez have been trying to be creative. Özil has a higher success rate because he purely depends on passes and 1-2-1's to break the defense. Sanchez takes on the defenders more often. Though he has been guilty of running into dead ends sometimes, this statistic about the number of times he has lost the ball is complete BS.
 

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
And is no where near as direct as Alexis, he is more likely to play the least riskiest option too would go hiding in games when it got tough. He also isn't a dribbler of the ball like Alexis. Essentially comparing Alexis with Özil in those stats.

Alexis isn't a dribbler of the ball either not in the final third . Not a guy that takes on players not anymore .
 

House MD

Active Member
Doesn't sound like you've seen him play a lot. He is very direct, takes a lot of risks, tries to dribble through defenders, and does lose the ball a lot but the setup at United is largely to blame for that because there's no movement on that team and all the attackers are stranded on an island by themselves.

Just ask any United fan if they've ever seen any player attempt as many nutmegs as Mkhitaryan.

Not really we have lots of movement. Just that mkhi has been really ineffective since august.
 

Dokaka

AM's resident Hammer
Alexis isn't a dribbler of the ball either not in the final third . Not a guy that takes on players not anymore .

Not sure that's true. One of his main weaknesses is being careless with the ball when he is taking on players, and he still completes as many dribbles per game as other wingers you'd say are decent when taking someone on, like Mane and Mahrez.

Stark contrast to Mkhi who looks like a man completely void of confidence. He doesn't even try anymore. Hopefully we see an upswing in form when he joins.

Look at this:

l0gSylU.png


Alexis used to be even more reckless with the ball but he was successful enough to get a pass. He's gotten more conservative with the ball, which is something you typically see players get after playing for Wenger for a bit.

Mkhi on the other hand has just fallen off a cliff. He used to be an exciting hard working offensive player but we've just seen none of that for two years now. He wouldn't be the first player to take a significant dip in performances at that age, so I have my doubts whether he can't ever get back to his Dortmund form.
 

SingmeasongSong

Right Sometimes
The only two stats that really matter on that list for a second striker/forward such as those two are key passes and chances created which Alexis trumps Mhki.

I can tell you right now that Mhki doesn't even have 75% of Alexis' output in the stats that matter.

To be honest, Mkhi sure as hell is a risk but if you compare him to Alexis than only his real older self at Dortmund where he hasn't been destroyed by Mourinho as many stars before.

Plus, he rules at keeping posession and to accelerate the pace where Alexis sucks at big time.
 

MNUS

Member
Doesn't sound like you've seen him play a lot. He is very direct, takes a lot of risks, tries to dribble through defenders, and does lose the ball a lot but the setup at United is largely to blame for that because there's no movement on that team and all the attackers are stranded on an island by themselves.

Just ask any United fan if they've ever seen any player attempt as many nutmegs as Mkhitaryan.
;

Mkhitaryan doesn't suit Mourinho at all think its a copout to put the blame entirely on him and his system though.

He was essentially meant to be there focal point in attack at number 10 and after that great start he had at the start of the season he was dropped for Jesse ****ing Lingard because he was ineffective, had no work rate and he was hiding during games.

And this is the player we are getting for our best sigh. I know you love him (clearly for what he was at Dortmund, because he has been a muggle at United) i just cant be happy with it the pace of the league might be too much for him. I remember watching his City game where he got subbed off at half time, was embarassing we already have too many bottlers.
 

emilursin

Active Member
we are not going to be able ro replace this guy, not now nor in the summer. got a feeling its going to be a long time until we see someone on his level signing for arsenal again
 
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