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Amadou Onana

lomekian

Well-Known Member
If this most likely buy is gonna end up like Lokonga its just not good enough.
Lokonga has had one season, and frequently played in disadvantageous situations. He just needs to EL games and to occasionally play in a functional team, and lots of opinions will change. Good touch, fairly mobile, lovely eye for a pass, can carry the ball, looks like he can shoot reasonably well too.
Needs to get stronger, add more urgency/ aggression to his game and maintain his self belief more. Despite being a fairly experienced 21 year old, last season he was not the most physically mature.

Hopefully we'll see more from him this season, and he can start to build himself by bossing the Europa League
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Didn't look to have the elegance or technique on the ball to draw Paddy / Diaby / Touré / Pogba comparisons for me, looked very, very raw, compare those players at 21 and their youtube highlight video wouldn't even fit in the best plays from this guy.

Looks more like a defensive 6 to me. If we want to go this route, which I'm not really sure is even necessary or productive in Arteta juego de posición, to me Carney Chukwuemeka looks a much more interesting prospect. But sure, this guy is highly rated in Belgium, so I'm sure he's a decent prospect and could probably be a nice 6, but c'mon, Paddy / Diaby / Touré / Pogba comparisons seem way, way off if you watch that video.
 

Xorspy

Active Member
Lokonga has had one season, and frequently played in disadvantageous situations. He just needs to EL games and to occasionally play in a functional team, and lots of opinions will change. Good touch, fairly mobile, lovely eye for a pass, can carry the ball, looks like he can shoot reasonably well too.
Needs to get stronger, add more urgency/ aggression to his game and maintain his self belief more. Despite being a fairly experienced 21 year old, last season he was not the most physically mature.

Hopefully we'll see more from him this season, and he can start to build himself by bossing the Europa League
Lokonga is too slow and a poor tackler
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
Didn't look to have the elegance or technique on the ball to draw Paddy / Diaby / Touré / Pogba comparisons for me, looked very, very raw, compare those players at 21 and their youtube highlight video wouldn't even fit in the best plays from this guy.

Looks more like a defensive 6 to me. If we want to go this route, which I'm not really sure is even necessary or productive in Arteta juego de posición, to me Carney Chukwuemeka looks a much more interesting prospect. But sure, this guy is highly rated in Belgium, so I'm sure he's a decent prospect and could probably be a nice 6, but c'mon, Paddy / Diaby / Touré / Pogba comparisons seem way, way off if you watch that video.

He's certainly nothing like Toure, Pogba or Diaby, stylistically or technique wise, as a long way off Vieira bar his tackling. Not seen the video in question, but watched lots of video about him last year. As you say he's a 6 who can break forward, and can have an impact striding forward due to his power, but is essentially a defensive midfielder. He would def come into the 'punt' category. But if the fee were fair, a punt worth taking for me, because we have no-one destructive with great physical presence coming through the ranks
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Languid more than slow - he covers the ground pretty well, but doesn't seem to have a sprint in him. And yes his tackling isn't good enough to be Partey's back up as things stand. Much more of a number 8
There are more ways to defend adequately than being a good tackler, good positional play is part of it, Elneny is basically this...he's not much of a tackler either but he doesn't lose his position and is very responsible in covering the zones he must. This is basically the profile Lokonga needs to go for because he's clearly not a ball-winner.

For me 8 is something of a non-starter for Lokonga, he just doesn't have the ability to be too interesting in that position from what I've seen, the interesting thing about him is receiving and progressing play with those nice quick bursts with long strides and feint turns (much like Thomas) from deep as a 6. If he can limit his mistakes and nervousness and unaware controls when receiving deep as the 6, and basically just refine his game in that position, that's the way to go for me. He was clearly quite raw last season but like you say Europa League will be good for him. Though I worry Elneny will take his minutes there...in which case GasparGodteta need to be intelligent about his development and find a loan for him.
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
There are more ways to defend adequately than being a good tackler, good positional play is part of it, Elneny is basically this...he's not much of a tackler either but he doesn't lose his position and is very responsible in covering the zones he must. This is basically the profile Lokonga needs to go for because he's clearly not a ball-winner.

For me 8 is something of a non-starter for Lokonga, he just doesn't have the ability to be too interesting in that position from what I've seen, the interesting thing about him is receiving and progressing play with those nice quick bursts with long strides and feint turns (much like Thomas) from deep as a 6. If he can limit his mistakes and nervousness and unaware controls when receiving deep as the 6, and basically just refine his game in that position, that's the way to go for me. He was clearly quite raw last season but like you say Europa League will be good for him. Though I worry Elneny will take his minutes there...in which case GasparGodteta need to be intelligent about his development and find a loan for him.
I think Sambi will become a number 6, but the role in this team is one he's not ready for yet. Elneny is super limited, but he knows exactly what he is and is pretty good at know where to stand. Sambi was box to box in Belgium or as part of a double pivot, and I want to see him get more games in those roles until he gets more comfortable. Also I think he has some beautifully penetrative passing in his game, which if we don't get Tielemans or equivalent would serve the team better than Xhaka in some games.
 

2Smokeyy

Reigning, Undisputed PL Draft Champ!! 🔥
I like these left field signings. Won’t be expensive either I guess.

The only question you ask is, with all these young signings, what’s the plan? Vieira and this guy will need time to develop.

Agreed, if this was any other window or our squad wasn’t that inexperienced then I wouldn’t be opposed to this signing but I think we need a bit more experience and established players in our first eleven than another project.

I don’t know much about him tbf but he looks quite decent from those clips posted earlier in the thread.
 

StefanB

Well-Known Member
Seems like quite the talent. Good technique for sure, along with decent vision and passing. On top of that he looks like a beast physically.

All for it.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
I think Sambi will become a number 6, but the role in this team is one he's not ready for yet. Elneny is super limited, but he knows exactly what he is and is pretty good at know where to stand. Sambi was box to box in Belgium or as part of a double pivot, and I want to see him get more games in those roles until he gets more comfortable. Also I think he has some beautifully penetrative passing in his game, which if we don't get Tielemans or equivalent would serve the team better than Xhaka in some games.
Penetrative passing is not Xhaka's strength within his overall passing style, but he's still overall a pretty top passer, and for me it's still a major stretch to suggest that Sambi's penetrative passing is better than Xhaka's. I haven't really seen anything to suggest that and think this kind of factors into the relevant biases with Xhaka, some of which I myself have been guilty of (Xhaka is boring, and we're tired of him, despite the relatively 'boring' assets he brings to us that we've become quite bored of; so you get people like me saying at the beginning of last season after a few games that I think Lokonga can become the better option than Xhaka by the end of the season, when that was really overly-optimistic and a slight on Xhaka's ability, which is underappreciated thanks to its boringness, which makes us put less emphasis on his good play...the exact same play or pass that we would remember a lot more and would seem a lot more interesting to us with another player, and also thanks to the bias involved with memory placing undue emphasis on certain outlier events--talking about his red cards and important d'oh moments...can't remember the name of this cognitive bias right now 😅 ).

Basically I don't think Sambi does anything better than Xhaka at the moment, except dribbling and the occasional eliminating of defenders in the centre of the park.
 

chessygoal

Well-Known Member
I'd love a Diaby regen. But Onana isn't it.
Zambo-Anguissa was far more established than Onana in Ligue 1, and look what happened to him when he joined Fulham.
That being said, Onana has potential, but what he needs now is a club where he'll play regularly.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚

Ufff just had a look at his FBref, confirms what his youtube video looked like, just your typical destroyer that really has no place whatsoever in our style of play or in any top side's midfield. Perhaps Lille's playing style has an effect there, don't know what kind of style they play, but still, poor man's Bissouma profile in Ligue 1 is not promising at all. Much prefer to spend our time developing Lokonga at the 6, a player who at least has the potential to be starter level at the 6...

Lokonga the far more interesting prospect: https://fbref.com/en/jugadores/1b4f1169/Albert-Sambi-Lokonga

Need to put an end to A-M's obsession with incredibly limited destroyers. Look around the world and no top side uses these players--the profile of good destroyers like Casemiro, Fabinho, and Kante have no comparison, they have never had anything like the passing involvement or lack thereof that people like this or Bissouma do. The absolute god level of this type of player, N'Didi, is still at Leicester.
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
Penetrative passing is not Xhaka's strength within his overall passing style, but he's still overall a pretty top passer, and for me it's still a major stretch to suggest that Sambi's penetrative passing is better than Xhaka's. I haven't really seen anything to suggest that and think this kind of factors into the relevant biases with Xhaka, some of which I myself have been guilty of (Xhaka is boring, and we're tired of him, despite the relatively 'boring' assets he brings to us that we've become quite bored of; so you get people like me saying at the beginning of last season after a few games that I think Lokonga can become the better option than Xhaka by the end of the season, when that was really overly-optimistic and a slight on Xhaka's ability, which is underappreciated thanks to its boringness, which makes us put less emphasis on his good play...the exact same play or pass that we would remember a lot more and would seem a lot more interesting to us with another player, and also thanks to the bias involved with memory placing undue emphasis on certain outlier events--talking about his red cards and important d'oh moments...can't remember the name of this cognitive bias right now 😅 ).

Basically I don't think Sambi does anything better than Xhaka at the moment, except dribbling and the occasional eliminating of defenders in the centre of the park.
I'm someone that rates Xhaka, but Sambi has played creative passes that Xhaka is not capable of. Xhaka's super power is retaining managing possession with authority and playing teh pass before the pass. Sambi is far better carrier and is more ambitious and creative in his passing, in terms of variety and trying to play the final pass.

Your perception was challenged by the fact Xhaka had his most consistent season for us when he was available, despite not always in his preferred role. Sambi now is not worthy of ousting Xhaka in most games, but in a game where we need a little more attacking dynamism in that role and are less worried about control & solidity, Sambi is the better option. As I said, the Belgian needs EL games to play with the confidence and assurance he showed at Anderlecht, and then he may well be able to threaten for a regular starting slot. At present he plays like the young colt hoping to be starter, whereas Xhaka's self assurance and strength of personality have been self evident since he was a teenager in Switzerland
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
4.35. The way he eats up and munches Kante. Something that we could do with.

Essentially that's what Bissouma does.

I was talking about Lokonga. Onana is a nailed on number 6, but a bit raw to be anything other than an investment for the future
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
I'd love a Diaby regen. But Onana isn't it.
Zambo-Anguissa was far more established than Onana in Ligue 1, and look what happened to him when he joined Fulham.
That being said, Onana has potential, but what he needs now is a club where he'll play regularly.
Agree - worth buying to loan if the fee is cheap enough. Unless he has Guendouzi like self-assurance and competitiveness (without being as immature), he wouldn't be ready to get enough games to benefit his development.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
more ambitious and creative in his passing, in terms of variety and trying to play the final pass.
This is the part I would dispute.

When you look at the stats that could quantify this a bit, Sambi is 85th, 76th, 87th percentile, and 92nd percentile to Xhaka's 82nd, 90th, 96th, and 95th in Key Passes, Passes into the Final Third, Passes into the Penalty Box, and SCA (live ball), respectively.

Perhaps the slight advantage in key passes could speak a bit to your claim, that Lokonga is more likely to make or try a defence splitting pass, but we're talking about a marginal advantage there.

Regardless, I take your point about Lokonga's personality, I agree that he definitely has some creativity to his game, but my point would be that Xhaka's creativity is in turn underrated (because of us being bored of him and the biases involved, and his creativity being a more subtle type-- his key passes don't really look to us like key passes when we're watching them, they tend to be more prosaic looking), and that in terms of actual production I don't think there's a strong argument for Lokonga currently being better than Xhaka in this aspect.

Given his personality perhaps you can make an argument that he could get there (to a higher level of actual production than Xhaka in this facet) this season.

Anyways, we're splitting hairs here and I'm getting a bit pedantic, I respect you as a poster, my point here is just to basically say that we tend to carry a negative bias when talking about pretty much any quality of Xhaka's, and especially take for granted his passing level, and that with him especially it's worth looking at the stats and checking on the biases and giving him the appreciation he is often due (which I don't think is an issue in your case at all, it just came up in this discussion organically wrt to Sambi).

You're certainly right about the part that I took out of this sentence quoted, btw, of course, that Sambi is the superior ball carrier. That we agree on from the start. And I understand how that factors into your original argument re: Lokonga's use in certain situations.
 

Rasmi

Got 7 accusations last 3 years. Not my fault 🤦‍♂️

Ufff just had a look at his FBref, confirms what his youtube video looked like, just your typical destroyer that really has no place whatsoever in our style of play or in any top side's midfield. Perhaps Lille's playing style has an effect there, don't know what kind of style they play, but still, poor man's Bissouma profile in Ligue 1 is not promising at all. Much prefer to spend our time developing Lokonga at the 6, a player who at least has the potential to be starter level at the 6...

Lokonga the far more interesting prospect: https://fbref.com/en/jugadores/1b4f1169/Albert-Sambi-Lokonga

Need to put an end to A-M's obsession with incredibly limited destroyers. Look around the world and no top side uses these players--the profile of good destroyers like Casemiro, Fabinho, and Kante have no comparison, they have never had anything like the passing involvement or lack thereof that people like this or Bissouma do. The absolute god level of this type of player, N'Didi, is still at Leicester.
We had a chance to sign kante and signed xhaka. I remember Arsenal fans saying xhaka was DLP and had more to his game than kante. We have enough aesthetically appealing players. What we lack is steal in the middle of the park. The moment Partey is not playing we are just too soft. We really could do with a player of his profile.
 

Xln

Get Xhaka 🔛
6'5 is too tall, what are we basketball team now? No cm that is 6'5 or above has been any good.

Already seen someone mention Diaby ( who was complete dog ****) comprasion which instantly brought back PTSD and I vomited a little.
I swear you are like the omega wolf of AM.

You have the alpha Arteta fans and the beta anti Arteta brigade consisting of followers and need for likes.

Then there is you. Elite, own vision out of the bunch. Best part is nobody disagrees with you.
 

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