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Amadou Onana

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
Yeah, like I said, there isn't data available on those on fbref, pre 2017-18, and admit that the analysis is limited by this.


But I'm skeptical that there can be that much evolution in a player's general profile. Yves attempted 59.84 passes (80th percentile) at Lille in his age 20 season, which then went down to 37.4, 44.4, 48.4, and 50.3 in the premier league. Not sure what to make of that...on the one hand Yves was more involved than Tchouameni at age 19, on the other hand it shows the difference in level between Ligue 1 in how he's adapted, only in 4 years to get himself to a very bleak for a CM 53rd percentile level after 4 years.

I guess the conservative takeaway would be: there is definite room and precedent for significant evolution in Onana's game in possession, but he is coming from an extremely low bar, and any likely gains could be offset by the change in league.

Whoscored has Fabinho at 46.9 passes completed (39 in his age 19, when he was 10 months younger than Onana) in his age 20 season (just realised Onana's season last was really his age 20 season, as he turned 20 on aug 16), and Onana's at 41.1, so, that gives perhaps some hope for Onana.

I guess after that look I would reform my view to: would give Onana a much better chance of having a career and being a starting level 6 at the top level than Bissouma. But certainly wouldn't bet on it, especially as he looks to me a bit clunky on the eye test, and Fabinho at that age certainly looked a smoother and more controlled footballer to me, though that can be outweighed or offset by Onana's superior physical prodigiousness, to be fair...in short, leave it to the scouts who have watched more than a 4 minute youtube video on him, and I retract my comment that Onana should be completely discarded just based on his statistical profile in his rookie season, while feeling even better about the fact that we weren't the team that spent £25m on Yves Bissouma 😂
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
All I’m gonna say if Arsenal ever is gonna become elite club. It will be through discovering young talents before they explode. Because after they do they will not choose Arsenal.
What the F*ck?! You've literally been saying the polar opposite consistently for the the last 12 months. Your whole mantra is based on Arsenal not relying on youth and U24 players.

I agree with what you've said above by the way, but it's really out of character. You must really rate this big dude.
 

AbouCuéllar

Author of A-M essays 📚
He is far ahead of the players being mentioned like kante, Fabinho etc at 20.
Fabinho started 35 games for Monaco and 9 CL games in the season they beat us in the round of 16, starting the season at 10 months older than Onana did this past one, and started 21 games at age 19 season,10 months younger than Onana, so nah, he isn't.

That said, as stated in the post above, I retract my comment about Onana being discardable exclusively based on his statistical profile after that illuminating exercise looking at comparisons, and return to my default opinion on players like these: no clue, I trust our scouts and people who have watched him extensively more than me or anyone here.
 

Rasmi

Got 7 accusations last 3 years. Not my fault 🤦‍♂️
What the F*ck?! You've literally been saying the polar opposite consistently for the the last 12 months. Your whole mantra is based on Arsenal not relying on youth and U24 players.

I agree with what you've said above by the way, but it's really out of character. You must really rate this big dude.
You need also experienced players. Not a whole team of youngsters. But we need a quicker turnover as well. Not give young players years to see. Within 2 years if you not cracked it you need to move on
 

Rasmi

Got 7 accusations last 3 years. Not my fault 🤦‍♂️
Fabinho started 35 games for Monaco and 9 CL games in the season they beat us in the round of 16, starting the season at 10 months older than Onana did this past one, and started 21 games at age 19 season,10 months younger than Onana, so nah, he isn't.

That said, as stated in the post above, I retract my comment about Onana being discardable exclusively based on his statistical profile after that illuminating exercise looking at comparisons, and return to my default opinion on players like these: no clue, I trust our scouts and people who have watched him extensively more than me or anyone here.
Tbh I don’t know enough of the guy to argue either. Just seen he had a quick rise so he either is super talented or lucky being at the right place. It’s a gamble with how green he is.
 

RunTheTrap

Nobody laughs on my "jokes" 😫
You can't re-write history. Go on Ceballos thread during the time the PL resumed untill the end of season and played a joy part of us winning the FA Cup with his peformances.

The following season Yes he was no where near the level he was then.
Which makes his decent into mediocrity all the more upsetting. Cellabos was actually a good footballer and could be a starter for us now, but he let himself down. It’s not like he suffered an injury or anything like that. He just turned sh£t for no reason.
 

Entropics

Well-Known Member

Player: Pépé
Ceballos had 1 good game for this club

But as seen with the likes of Wilshere and Welbeck, 1 good game is enough to get an overrated for life pass at Arsenal fandom if you're lucky.
 

Red London

Anti-Simp Culture
Trusted ⭐
Ceballos had 1 good game for this club

But as seen with the likes of Wilshere and Welbeck, 1 good game is enough to get an overrated for life pass at Arsenal fandom if you're lucky.
Do you watch football? So many incorrect statements in that message.

Ceballos was poor but had more than 1 good game for us, albeit it only being a handful he contributed to the FA cup run.

Wilshere was very talented and gave us some really good games even after his nightmare with injuries. Welbeck was very serviceable and was important in our FA cup win vs Chelsea but was considered a donkey and certainly not overrated by our fan base lol…
 

Riou

English Super Cup Enjoyer 🤗
I feel Arsenal fans on average, show the least amount of support to their players, out of all other fanbases.

That thread were Kos and Santi were getting called crap shows how we don't deserve good things, certainly after how we treated Arsène too.

Awful, awful bunch we are.
 

lomekian

Well-Known Member
There is simply no comparison between Kanté and the profile of players like this and Bissouma.

I'll say it again, players this uninvolved in possession is a huge red flag, like with Willock when I made the argument that he just doesn't have the potential to play as a midfielder at Arsenal, they are hidden for a reason, and it's really a profile that just isn't suitable at all for the top level.

Onana attempted 42 passes per game (42nd percentile), with 53.53 touches per game (29th percentile), and 2.95 progressive passes (23rd percentile).

In Kanté's season most uninvolved in possession, he attempted 59.3 passes (69th percentile), with 70.99 touches per game (70th percentile), and 3.75 progressive passes (36th). *

*unfortunately data pre 17-18, from when he was at Caen as a younger player here isn't available

Fabinho at 23 in in Ligue 1 for Monaco:

58.12 passes attempted (79th percentile), 67.88 touches (75th), and 5.32 progressive passes (79th percentile).

Unfortunately I can't think of a player in the destroyer's role who was at the age of Onana post 2017-18, I guess you could compare to Tchouameni's age 19 season, for example:

54.54 (70th), 5.44 (82nd), 64.34 (59th)

I just don't think there's such scope for players so limited and uninvolved in possession to develop into much. It's less provable in Onana's case where, despite his even weaker profile in involvement than Bissouma's, there's at least the confounding variables of team set-up, age, and rawness, but yeah, to see a player that uninvolved and absent in possession is really a massive red flag, and you can pretty much safely discard them just with a look at their stats. None of the few destroyers successful at the top level have an even somewhat similar profile.

In short, players like Bissouma and Onana lack basic midfield skills that are essential if you want to play in the midfield at a high level team: a) personality to get on the ball and not be a hidden man in possession, often leaving you like playing with a man less in possession AND/OR b) quality on the ball, so that their managers are forced to hide them to an extreme extent. a) and b) often go together of course.
The general point you make is sound, but your reliance on comparative data, that by your own submission is incomplete for the same or similar age is flawed. Very few midfielders aer the same at 23 or 24 as they are at 20.

In any event, I don't think anyone would expect an unproven 20 year old to reach the level of Kante or Fabinho. The question is a) is it possible & b) do the raw tools suggest a player that would be useful even if they don't reach that level.

Of course buying a player of this ilk at this age is nearly always a risk (the degree of which is dependent on fee), because very few DMs are able to play the position effectively at the top level at such young age, hence Madrid throwing £££ at 2 young french lads who are more 8's but could transfer deeper later.
 

Barry

Definitely Not An Old Poster
Gotta say that I'm not disappointed about this one. May be a good player but he's not what we need right now and we have the development prospect already with Lokonga. Space for one more midfielder - needs to be one for next season, not three years time.
 

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