"Are you too intelligent to be a football manager?"

[wellington]

Ah, yes, but I'm not saying it is the only thing. I'm just saying the result is objective. Winning an Oscar isn't the same as winning a match.

 

[yuvken]

"the result is objective"

At least we agree on that

 

[Y va marquer]

Returning to the quote:
”Football is an art, like dancing is an art – but only when it's well done does it become an art.
If you accept that the end product of the inspired instinctive and perfect execution of ones craft is art then I think it would be difficult to argue that football as played by Maradonna, Bergkamp, Zidane (only mentioning those who I’ve actually seen play) is not an art.

The greatest of footballers produce moments of inspired brilliance that live in the mind long after you’ve forgotten all other details from a game – sometimes even when you’ve forgotten even the result?
Seeing your team win, week in week out, most definitely satisfies some basic need to see “opponents vanquished” but given the reaction to our victory in the Hull match threads I wonder if this is enough?
Seems to me that quite a few people were unmoved by the result and were more concerned by what they perceived to be an uninspiring performance.

 

[Biggus]

Returning to the quote:
”Football is an art, like dancing is an art – but only when it's well done does it become an art.
If you accept that the end product of the inspired instinctive and perfect execution of ones craft is art then I think it would be difficult to argue that football as played by Maradonna, Bergkamp, Zidane (only mentioning those who I’ve actually seen play) is not an art.

The greatest of footballers produce moments of inspired brilliance that live in the mind long after you’ve forgotten all other details from a game – sometimes even when you’ve forgotten even the result?
Seeing your team win, week in week out, most definitely satisfies some basic need to see “opponents vanquished” but given the reaction to our victory in the Hull match threads I wonder if this is enough?
Seems to me that quite a few people were unmoved by the result and were more concerned by what they perceived to be an uninspiring performance.

Well then they're fools Y va, the result is all that counts at this stage.
The end product of the inspired instinctive and perfect execution of ones craft (football in this case) is to win the game- otherwise it's a failure by any measurement subject or objective that you want.

 

[alboots101]

I`m not.

 

[banduan]

I`m not.

:?:
1) Sober
2) Sane
3) Comprehensible
4) Bothered to write anything more
5) Actually a guy, despite there being no girls on the internets
6) Liking where this is leading

Should this be a poll?

 

[yuvken]

He is:

1. right
2. bright
3. concise
4. clear
5. spot on
6. human
7. relating exactly to what is relevant here
8. (and hopefully not sober; whatever for?)

 

[alboots101]

OGG would not appreciate #5..nither would Yva..or lerche..or Leila..or nat..or.......

never had me summed up in 6 points though...still i cant dissagree.

 

[Y va marquer]

Yeah boots has got soul! Wears his heart on his sleeve and he loves this club.
He doesn't need to write a thesis every five minutes.
Though I'm sure he could if he put his mind to it

 

[yuvken]

Returning to the quote:
”Football is an art, like dancing is an art – but only when it's well done does it become an art.
If you accept that the end product of the inspired instinctive and perfect execution of ones craft is art then I think it would be difficult to argue that football as played by Maradonna, Bergkamp, Zidane (only mentioning those who I’ve actually seen play) is not an art.

The greatest of footballers produce moments of inspired brilliance that live in the mind long after you’ve forgotten all other details from a game – sometimes even when you’ve forgotten even the result?
Seeing your team win, week in week out, most definitely satisfies some basic need to see “opponents vanquished” but given the reaction to our victory in the Hull match threads I wonder if this is enough?
Seems to me that quite a few people were unmoved by the result and were more concerned by what they perceived to be an uninspiring performance.

Well then they're fools Y va, the result is all that counts at this stage.
The end product of the inspired instinctive and perfect execution of ones craft (football in this case) is to win the game- otherwise it's a failure by any measurement subject or objective that you want.

No, they're not. they are human. Robots, and other entities with an absolutely objective, result oriented value hierarchy are the "wise" according to that. They don't play football. And when they will, they will not enjoy it (or, to save the redundant ensuing water grinding, they don't "enjoy" it in the same way we do).
Our own mental abilities as humans, with one leg in the "universal rationality" - the objective perspective, and the other (perhaps not ability, but certainly reality) in seeing the world as essentially subjective (something which I'm afraid no matter how hard we'll try to shake off or transcend, we will never be able to change; for better or worse) are at the root of some of these higher aspirations (if they are indeed higher). We can appreciate what unlimited beings can achieve, and it's value to us (we DO value results). But we can never be beings solely devoted to that.
Do you carry deep inside you the list of titles, or the Denis ncstle moment?

 

[Anzac]

Re the title - too intelligent or should it be too idealistic, and is that as a result of being too intelligent = can't see the trees for the forest?

 

[yuvken]

Yeah boots has got soul! Wears his heart on his sleeve and he loves this club.
He doesn't need to write a thesis every five minutes.
Though I'm sure he could if he put his mind to it

But he just did. In 2 words. And gets an A+ from me, at least :wink: .

 

[Anzac]

I`m not.

......a fool = fixed.

:wink:

 

[alboots101]

awwww..gee thanx goons.

 

[yuvken]

Re the title - too intelligent or should it be too idealistic, and is that as a result of being too intelligent = can't see the trees for the forest?

He said you can never be too intelligent. You are asking something different, and perhaps more to the point. Either way it looks to me like it is possible to be too much of (whatever), depending how you measure success. For instance, if you need to be ruthless to get results (or sometimes a bit rough on your own players, throw boots at their faces, etc.), and results are the ultimate criterion for success - then obviously - yes. I think this is what the majority of people here say about our own.

 

[Y va marquer]

Seems to me that the destination is all that matters to some fans.
The "winning" is everything and it's not even the joy of winning - just relief at not losing.

As for being "too intelligent" - AW articulates thoughts that we don't often hear from football managers but I don't see why that indicates that he's too intelligent.
He's just open to discussing views that we don't normally associate with football managers.

 

[banduan]

who's OGG anyways?

 

[Biggus]

Do you carry deep inside you the list of titles, or the Denis ncstle moment?

A list of titties.

No true Arsenal supporter would think that our win over Hull wasn't more important than how we played.

 

[alboots101]

who's OGG anyways?

the Lord of Dula`s fav poster.ohtobeagoonergal

 

[yuvken]

Do you carry deep inside you the list of titles, or the Denis ncstle moment?

A list of titties.

No true Arsenal supporter would think that our win over Hull wasn't more important than how we played.

If you go to the game thread, You'll find one yuvken posting a few hours before the game that he doesn't care if we play our worst game of the season, only 3 pts matter. Proves your point? No.
The point is that neither perspective is exclusive: results DO matter (and sometimes they matter more than anything, even subjectively. But results are not the only thing that matters.
I need to recall: 71, 89, 91 and then the AW era titles. I need to make extra effort for the FA cup. and for some reason, that Owen double at the end, when we actually lost the cup (when we sso f***n deserved it) lives more vividly in my mind than some other wins. Humans, that's how we are. Pathetic, weak, emotional. We carry with us what hurt us, and not only because it builds us stronger (Nietszche, duh). Notice titles before 71 are not even in the list - I don't remember by heart, I know vaguely about the 30's. Maybe I'm not a real fan. Or maybe us humans are truly inferior to you, sublime creatures. And in my inferiority, I'll always carry that turn closer to heart than any title (at least past ones; sure, I'll buy erasing some sweet memories for this year's title )