Arsenal Tactics Talk

[Sapient Hawk]

I recall that in 2006,we kept 10 consecutive clean sheets in the CL. That's a record that remains intact. Our defensive set up vs Villareal that season was the most defensive I've seen ANY Arsenal team.

We dismantled Real at the Bernabeu & took Juventus apart at Highbury on the counter, but what got us to Paris that season was a rock solid defence that wasn't seen since Graham's back 5 left. Our match against Villareal at El-Madrigal was a tactical masterclass, until a pathtic dive from that odious Jose Mari almost ruined it, but that loveable deranged German of ours saw us through.

Arsène, despite my great frustration with him, managed to drill that back 4 well & actually made Flamini, brought in as a defensive midfielder, an able deputy for Ashley Cole that season.

What I wouldn't give for capable & determined utility players of that type now.

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

We dismantled Real at the Bernabeu & took Juventus apart at Highbury on the counter, but what got us to Paris that season was a rock solid defence that wasn't seen since Graham's back 5 left. Our match against Villareal at El-Madrigal was a tactical masterclass, until a pathtic dive from that odious Jose Mari almost ruined it, but that loveable deranged German of ours saw us through.

Arsène, despite my great frustration with him, managed to drill that back 4 well & actually made Flamini, brought in as a defensive midfielder, an able deputy for Ashley Cole that season.

What I wouldn't give for capable & determined utility players of that type now.

What fantastic memories. I think the back 4 was Eboue,Senderos, Toure and Flamini. The common denominators were sheer determination and a willingness to run. We have arguably better quality now but none of the guts or heart that group had.

 

[rich 1990]

Now I'm depressed.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

What fantastic memories. I think the back 4 was Eboue,Senderos, Toure and Flamini. The common denominators were sheer determination and a willingness to run. We have arguably better quality now but none of the guts or heart that group had.

That's what lies at the heart of the matter. This team is devoid of confidence & the pride inherant in wearing the Arsenal shirt.

Out of that old back 4, only Kolo Toure was the only one who could claim to be starting no questions asked, the other three earned it through hard work & in doing so gained an affinity for the club/fans which was returned in kind.

This current lot care nothing for the club, merely the wage packet that rolls in at the end of the week. A massive rebuild lies ahead starting with a renewed vigour and injection of pride in playing for Arsenal and that it is a privilege!

 

[Sapient Hawk]

Now I'm depressed.

Chin up, Rich, if it's any consolation, we're right down there with you, misery loving company & all that

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

http://www.eifsoccer.com/articles/featured/investigating-arsenal-Arsène-wenger/

Quite interesting a read. But beware, lots of speculations.

Interesting. I feel like crying if Wenger did want Kante and Gazidis bought him Xhaka instead because the computer said to. It's ridiculous too that Wenger having identified two forwards in Higuain and Suarez was allowed to derail the deals on principles and cost. The article also references that Gazidis is the only football man executive and says Wenger used to give Dein a list of targets and off he went. It doesn't sound like he has the same faith in Gazidis or any of the current board hence his total control. It dies my say much for Gazidis' failure to impose himself. Most importantly,it seems Wenger is buying players for their individual qualities and not to fit a system. He's done it in the past and it can work with top quality players but we've been forced to shop at the cheap store for a while now and it shows in the performances and results.

 

[MutableEarth]

http://www.eifsoccer.com/articles/featured/investigating-arsenal-Arsène-wenger/

Quite interesting a read. But beware, lots of speculations.

I feel the first part is as close to accuracy as it gets. Far too much reliance on individual characteristics that don't go together coupled with a poor tactical system. It is never exactly clear what we are trying to do anymore.

 

[rich 1990]

Chin up, Rich, if it's any consolation, we're right down there with you, misery loving company & all that

That's why I post the way I do. It's not about making myself feel better, it's about making other people feel worse.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

That's why I post the way I do. It's not about making myself feel better, it's about making other people feel worse.

I read this passage (paraphrased) in a book once & it resonated well with my cynical outlook on life :

"I find that a dose of cynicism is always healthy" and I tend to agree 100%.

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Still thinking about our zone marking on corners Saturday against West Brom. Ramsey and Ox making exactly the same mistake. The more I think about it the more I feel we do not drill defensive set up and duties with any focus what so ever.

Are our training sessions open to the public? I wouldn't mind going to one and just check what the **** they are doing the whole time.

 

[mm76]

The more I think about it the more I feel we do not drill defensive set up and duties with any focus what so ever.

they don't seem to practice handling corners at either end of the pitch from what i can see...

 

[The_Playmaker]

they don't seem to practice handling corners at either end of the pitch from what i can see...

Our corner deliveries are shocking. None of our players can whip a ball in with pace. They are floated in slowly.

 

[mm76]

Our corner deliveries are shocking. None of our players can whip a ball in with pace. They are floated in slowly.

well, yes and that's when they even beat the first man - and then there's those ever-so-clever short corners - i've yet to see a goal from one of those...

 

[Batman]

Something I've just thought of in regards to our absolutely shameful defending from set pieces is the impact that Cech theoretically should be having but isn't. Now you would think that with a keeper of his ability and experience that the organization on set pieces should be a bit better. I understand there being an issue with the way the manager chooses to do things in training but out there on the pitch if I'm the one in goal and it's me who is under threat I'm going to organize my players the way I want them organized. Is it possible that Cech simply doesn't know how to organize his defenders on set pieces because he never had to at Chelsea? We already know he's facing more shots than he ever did as a Chelsea player but is this an area that maybe we didn't consider being an issue. Could it be that they were just so well drilled that it was never an area he really needed to work on? Because you would think he should be having at least some positive impact on the organization in the box but it doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[mm76]

Something I've just thought of in regards to our absolutely shameful defending from set pieces is the impact that Cech theoretically should be having but isn't. Now you would think that with a keeper of his ability and experience that the organization on set pieces should be a bit better. I understand there being an issue with the way the manager chooses to do things in training but out there on the pitch if I'm the one in goal and it's me who is under threat I'm going to organize my players the way I want them organized. Is it possible that Cech simply doesn't know how to organize his defenders on set pieces because he never had to at Chelsea? We already know he's facing more shots than he ever did as a Chelsea player but is this an area that maybe we didn't consider being an issue. Could it be that they were just so well drilled that it was never an area he really needed to work on? Because you would think he should be having at least some positive impact on the organization in the box but it doesn't appear to be the case.

Cack's behaviour after the Bayern game said it all - he doesn't care about the club and is just going to do his own job within his comfort zone, pull off a few saves here and there and rely on Ospina being even worse than him, gauranteeing him games and of course he gets all that lovely cash...

 

[HERTSGOONER_11]

Cack's behaviour after the Bayern game said it all - he doesn't care about the club and is just going to do his own job within his comfort zone, pull off a few saves here and there and rely on Ospina being even worse than him, gauranteeing him games and of course he gets all that lovely cash...

Thing is, that goes for a lot of the players. Cech came to Arsenal having laughed at us alongside Mourinho. He knew he was declining and going to be replaced. Wanted to stay in London for his kids. He's already won everything. He didn't come here to win.

A lot of our players are gutless because they've either been signed or integrated into a team that has a weak mentality. There are so many things that have annoyed me in the last few seasons bar the obvious failures on the pitch. See Calum Chambers replying to an interview last season when asked about the expectations for the season or the goals, do you know what he said? Something along the lines of " we just want to finish as high as we can". Is this Arsenal or Southampton ffs! Ox talking on goals on sunday about his lack of playing time and if it continues he'll have to move on. Sorry, are you forgetting the fact you have had countless injuries, you went missing for a hell of a long time, when you are on the right and not getting the ball you literally stand out there and don't move. You don't make runs into the box like Sterling, you don't try and find space like a 19 year old IwoBi did.

First you go 100% zonal marking against a dangerous side with nobody to pick anyone up. Zonal is fine, but you still need a couple to pick up. Ox/Ramsey aren't meant to leave their zones and track runners, they are their to head the ball if it goes within their area. We stack 7 players on top of our goalkeeper, crowd the area, nobody takes control.

Our captain is a guy who ducks out of shots and does a lot of talking but is feeble on the pitch and gets bullied. Our two spokesmen are Theo and Ox who show absolutely no character on the pitch and decide to turn up when it suits them. Xhaka is playing like he doesn't know what to do, he is allowed to tackle and be aggressive or not. Iwobi lacks confidence and isn't ready to be a winner at this level. Giroud is severely limited but does try and lead and do what he can with his ability. Our full backs haven't put a decent cross in for month on end, see Gibbs who timidly tapped the ball into the box for the last seven years rather than putting any pace/purpose on the crosses. When Ramsey's fit and properly match fit and not pretending he's Zidane always tries and works hard and make things happen but doesn't get the support/leeway the likes of Ox get. Our two best players are polar opposites, Sanchez an absolute lunatic and Özil a guy who needs the team to babysit him whilst he decides whether he's going to show up or not.

Wenger should/should have surrounded himself with as many players from winning sides as possible. If you can't find those types as players, bring them in as coaches/mentors/water boys whatever, take a step back from the inquests/motivational side and let the likes of Adams, Vieira, Henry, Keown, Lehmann remind everyone what it means to play for Arsenal.

These players need a massive dressing down, some real hard truths said. If they can't handle it, they can move on. Wenger won't do. A new manager coming in being all nice and pretending everything is fine won't work. You will have the same issues. I can't stress enough, but most of them need a bollocking and reality check that only some of the above names are able to do.

 

[mm76]

Thing is, that goes for a lot of the players. Cech came to Arsenal having laughed at us alongside Mourinho. He knew he was declining and going to be replaced. Wanted to stay in London for his kids. He's already won everything. He didn't come here to win.

A lot of our players are gutless because they've either been signed or integrated into a team that has a weak mentality. There are so many things that have annoyed me in the last few seasons bar the obvious failures on the pitch. See Calum Chambers replying to an interview last season when asked about the expectations for the season or the goals, do you know what he said? Something along the lines of " we just want to finish as high as we can". Is this Arsenal or Southampton ffs! Ox talking on goals on sunday about his lack of playing time and if it continues he'll have to move on. Sorry, are you forgetting the fact you have had countless injuries, you went missing for a hell of a long time, when you are on the right and not getting the ball you literally stand out there and don't move. You don't make runs into the box like Sterling, you don't try and find space like a 19 year old IwoBi did.

First you go 100% zonal marking against a dangerous side with nobody to pick anyone up. Zonal is fine, but you still need a couple to pick up. Ox/Ramsey aren't meant to leave their zones and track runners, they are their to head the ball if it goes within their area. We stack 7 players on top of our goalkeeper, crowd the area, nobody takes control.

Our captain is a guy who ducks out of shots and does a lot of talking but is feeble on the pitch and gets bullied. Our two spokesmen are Theo and Ox who show absolutely no character on the pitch and decide to turn up when it suits them. Xhaka is playing like he doesn't know what to do, he is allowed to tackle and be aggressive or not. Iwobi lacks confidence and isn't ready to be a winner at this level. Giroud is severely limited but does try and lead and do what he can with his ability. Our full backs haven't put a decent cross in for month on end, see Gibbs who timidly tapped the ball into the box for the last seven years rather than putting any pace/purpose on the crosses. When Ramsey's fit and properly match fit and not pretending he's Zidane always tries and works hard and make things happen but doesn't get the support/leeway the likes of Ox get. Our two best players are polar opposites, Sanchez an absolute lunatic and Özil a guy who needs the team to babysit him whilst he decides whether he's going to show up or not.

Wenger should/should have surrounded himself with as many players from winning sides as possible. If you can't find those types as players, bring them in as coaches/mentors/water boys whatever, take a step back from the inquests/motivational side and let the likes of Adams, Vieira, Henry, Keown, Lehmann remind everyone what it means to play for Arsenal.

These players need a massive dressing down, some real hard truths said. If they can't handle it, they can move on. Wenger won't do. A new manager coming in being all nice and pretending everything is fine won't work. You will have the same issues. I can't stress enough, but most of them need a bollocking and reality check that only some of the above names are able to do.

indeed, good post

 

[CaseUteinberger]

Ox/Ramsey aren't meant to leave their zones and track runners, they are their to head the ball if it goes within their area.

But it can also hardly be to just stand there and watch players get free runs on balls? Or someone else really didn't do their job. Anyhow, shambolic to be honest.

 

[RoadrunnerReloaded]

I take small pleasure in these dark days for Arsenal FC and indeed, the darkest time ever on Arsenal Mania that my tactical thread started over two years back still shines as a beacon of light and reasoned debate.

Truly, if more gooners stopped fighting among themselves and just focused that energy on reading all 40 pages of this thread, they would reach true Footballing Nirvana.

To contribute current we have this analysis from the Liverpool match:
http://spielverlagerung.com/2017/03/07/invigorated-liverpool-triumph-in-game-of-two-halves/

Although most of the issues of this match echo those from the match analysis I posted over 2 years ago. We still struggle as a team to cope with the same types of issues.

whilst Arsenal on the whole looked disorganised and lost, especially in the first half. This has been an increasingly common occurrence in recent times under Arsène Wenger. Klopp’s side were much more dynamic and intense than Arsenal, whose set-up to be direct and counter attack actually left them vulnerable to Liverpool in defensive transition.

 

[WhatAFC]

Yes the tactics are wrong and we see the same problems. However one of the biggest problems is we have too many individuals, talent but not a team. Players are playing for themselves rather than the team.

Walcott as an example, beginning of the season I was so impressed with improvement in his defensive side of the game, supporting bellerin and also scoring goals at the same time. Since he's come back his work rate has dropped back to last season.

Iwobi, a young guy who has a lot of talent. Work rate however is terrible, leaves the left back exposed constantly.