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Arsenal Tactics Talk

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
We had no pace, let alone presence, in wide areas. Özil and Mkhi as wingers both drift centrally and make it difficult to attack at their fullbacks when they're exposed. They aren't that quick on the counter either, or at least weren't quick enough for this particular defense. When passing failed them, they didn't have much to offer. We need Auba or Nelson on the wing to offer us something different.
Even both. Nelson may be young and may have some growing pains but at least he's a proper wide player with actual pace and the ability to beat a man. I'd rather have someone with limited experience but who actually has the qualifications needed learn on the job than someone experienced elsewhere without the requisite skill. Emery wants to attack fast and then plays slow players at the head of the attack. Makes no sense. And as I've been saying all summer, Laca and Auba must play together. It is so obvious that they individually and the team collectively are much better when deployed together. Let Özil play his actual position and give him 3 quick, talented players to make runs and he will find them.
 

Vinci

The Sultan of Unai

Country: Netherlands
Curious to see what Unai will do against Chelsea.

Won't be surprised to see both Lichtsteiner and Bellerin on the right if Monreal is fit. He's always liked playing another defender on the wing against strong sides and Chelski's main threat is definitely Hazard.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
Even both. Nelson may be young and may have some growing pains but at least he's a proper wide player with actual pace and the ability to beat a man. I'd rather have someone with limited experience but who actually has the qualifications needed learn on the job than someone experienced elsewhere without the requisite skill. Emery wants to attack fast and then plays slow players at the head of the attack. Makes no sense. And as I've been saying all summer, Laca and Auba must play together. It is so obvious that they individually and the team collectively are much better when deployed together. Let Özil play his actual position and give him 3 quick, talented players to make runs and he will find them.
Yeah, I was disappointed Nelson didn't make the bench. I did not expect him to start but we definitely needed a different element in the wider areas as it was very clear that City were dominant there. Bellerin was probably the only one able to match them and he was often isolated - Torreira was helpful when he came on.

Nelson would have at least pushed Mendy back a little bit as he was the one who caused the problems whenever he got forward. He's still got a lot to do but IMO his inexperience and lack of power is a liability we have to be able to afford as nobody else offers his pace+1v1 ability.
 

Aevi

Hale End FC
Moderator
Maybe this video is also suited here too.

Going by that video, Ramsey appears to deserve more props than he's been given. I'm not that knowledgeable on how to set up a good press but it looks like he ran his ass off and effectively carried out his role off the ball. I wonder if it might be worth having him do something similar in the future, but then also having him drop deep if we're building up from the back so as to have an extra man in midfield. I don't think he has much use up top in those moments.
 

Batman

Head of the Wayne foundation for benching Nketiah

Country: USA

Player:Saliba
Going by that video, Ramsey appears to deserve more props than he's been given. I'm not that knowledgeable on how to set up a good press but it looks like he ran his ass off and effectively carried out his role off the ball. I wonder if it might be worth having him do something similar in the future, but then also having him drop deep if we're building up from the back so as to have an extra man in midfield. I don't think he has much use up top in those moments.
There was nothing wrong with him pressing and he did do that well. I don't think anyone minds that or blames him for doing what he's told. The problem was the position he was occupying in possession and when we countered. He was essentially playing like a target man which is lunacy. I'm not sure we saw a single run in behind from Auba the entire match because he was constantly having to drop back. Every time the ball was played forward for a quick counter it was going to Ramsey who is neither quick enough, strong enough nor technically gifted enough to break through a back line. Had Auba been playing there as you would expect him to we may have had some joy. But the mistake there is entirely on Emery rather than Ramsey who frustrating as he is, follows the instructions he's given.
 

MutableEarth

Reiss' Dad
Trusted ⭐
Going by that video, Ramsey appears to deserve more props than he's been given. I'm not that knowledgeable on how to set up a good press but it looks like he ran his ass off and effectively carried out his role off the ball. I wonder if it might be worth having him do something similar in the future, but then also having him drop deep if we're building up from the back so as to have an extra man in midfield. I don't think he has much use up top in those moments.
Ramsey (one of Woz's faves :lol:) did an important job with the pressing - and honestly, Ramsey's always been relatively good at it. Ramsey's value off the ball is probably a bit more than his value on it. I feel that Emery could be a good coach for Ramsey because he'll instruct him to play a more stripped down game but I wonder if Ramsey will end up forcing a move and not signing because his freedom will be somewhat restricted. For me, Ramsey has to think and play quicker when he has the ball, sometimes he dithers too much - he's one of our biggest counter attack killing players. However, I honestly can't attribute blame to him as the entire attack was off color in attacking situations.
 

The_Playmaker

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
Ramsey just isn’t anything. Not a true forward, not a responsible midfielder, not technical enough to be a 10.

His special skill of scoring goals is inextricably linked to his downsides as a CM.

If you include him in a 3 with two more responsible CMs then Özil becomes a winger and pointless (expensively pointless at that).

Ramsey can play in a two, but he has to be disciplined. Torreira and Ramsey can be an Arteta Ramsey midfield. Ramsey needs to concentrate on arriving late rather than running early. He needs to focus on winning the ball and build up before he even thinks about scoring. A choice needs to be made between Özil and Mkhi. Auba and Lacazette need to play together.

I'd play Iwobi for the balance and play Özil on the right in a 433. Without the ball it's a 433. With the ball Özil moves inside and Iwobi moves across.

.... ................... Auba.................
...........................Laca..Özil..
.................Ramsey.............Iwobi
...............................Torreira

Lacazette tends to drop in and Auba moves forward. If Ramsey plays like an actual midfielder he can co
Ramsey (one of Woz's faves :lol:) did an important job with the pressing - and honestly, Ramsey's always been relatively good at it. Ramsey's value off the ball is probably a bit more than his value on it. I feel that Emery could be a good coach for Ramsey because he'll instruct him to play a more stripped down game but I wonder if Ramsey will end up forcing a move and not signing because his freedom will be somewhat restricted. For me, Ramsey has to think and play quicker when he has the ball, sometimes he dithers too much - he's one of our biggest counter attack killing players. However, I honestly can't attribute blame to him as the entire attack was off color in attacking situations.

I didn't understand it to be honest. Lacazette could do the exact same thing if instructed to do so. The fact that Ramsey played the whole half, got further instructed at half time and then withdrawn is telling in my opinion. We could play Ramsey alongside Torreira but Emery had the opportunity to play Ramsey alongside Guendouzi or Xhaka when we needed a goal. He decided against even having him on the pitch. I could be reading too much into it, but I get the feeling he is leaning towards a Xhaka Torreira midfield.
 

pikey2000

Well-Known Member
If we are going to play 3 men in midfield we can't play Özil and Mhki in the wide areas as they lack the pace on the break and also more importantly the work ethic/skill to defend properly in the wide positions.

With the personell we have i'd go with;

----------------Lacazette-------------
Auba--------------------------Nelson
-------------------Özil-----------------
----------Torreira-----AMN/Matteo
Monreal--Sokratis--Mustafi--Lich


- Our only genuine winger wide right in Nelson
- Auba wide left for his pace and runs until we actually buy a proper left winger
- Lacazette's pace and movement in and around the box
- Play to Özil's strength's, put him centre stage and allow him to find the forward players
- Torreira and AMN - both quick and agile enough to cover the ground behind Özil allowing him to have a more free role to dictate play.
- Lich in for Bellerin because he just oozes calm and experience and we need as much of that as we can get right now

I'd happily drop Xhaka and miss out on his long range passing, Ramseys runs into the box and Elnenys safety passing for Torreira/AMN/Geundouzi's work rate, agility and pace right now.
 

Wryer

Well-Known Member
Maybe the time to be brave and drop Özil for a change? It's getting too easy for any team to play him. Crowd him, press him, force him deep and that's it.

If we cannot create enough to win, then let's at least not lose.

Auba - Laca - Iwobi
Luca - Xhaka - Ramsey
Lich - Sok - Mus - Hector
Cech

Sort out our team defense!
 

SingmeasongSong

Right Sometimes
Maybe this video is also suited here too.


Pretty much got my thoughts on the game. You can see a very clear development in all areas on the field.

It hasn't been too long when I was rather worried of us playing our next game because the chance of another disaster was more likely than anything else.

Now, even a defeat does not really diminish my excitement for the season. It's so refreshing to see new faces, with a good mix of experience and young gems.

Besides, I really wanted us to focus on pressing the opponent. It goes along with high energetic football which often transforms into passion and special moments.

Our players look really fit, which is backed by stats as we've been the team which covered the most ground on the first match day, our players look as excited as the fans to try something new and are eager to learn and I did not see the typical slump after conceding.
 

dka1

100% Dark Chocolate
Trusted ⭐

Country: England
I went back and watched our first game against City, I then watched the first half of Chelsea vs Manchester City in the Community Shield.

The main reason for this was that I was trying to find out why we looked quite bad playing out from the back and this is what I've observed.

Man City vs Chelsea (first half)

In terms of passing from the back I was actually a tiny bit more impressed with how Chelsea navigated through City's press, as opposed to how City bypassed Chelsea.

What I saw was that in the first half even when City pressed high, Chelsea were more confident in passing out and looked to move forward more often than not.

Chelsea's full backs and midfield also seemed to drop deeper more quickly to provide passing options, and Chelsea did go back every so often, but more than not tried to pass forward and were decent in getting out of their half.

They looked f*cking horrible in the final third though, and their defensive shape was generally poor, too many times Man City were able to perforate their defence so easily; City cut through them like a hot knife through butter.

City were more relaxed at the back, they weren't concerned with escaping the back as quickly as Chelsea, this resulted in a few "iffy" moments, and City were forced to go long a few times; what I was impressed with, was how accurate some of the long balls were, and how quickly they hit Chelsea's back line when they played out long.

In terms of the final third it was no contest, City bullied Chelsea so badly, and the scoreline did no justice to how many chances City had. City's defensive shape was also a lot better than Chelsea's.

This leads me to:

Arsenal vs Man City (first half)

The passing from the back was bad, watching the game again made me realise how penned in we were.

I saw two problems in the first half;

1. We dithered on the ball for far too long. Chelsea got the ball and moved it on, they weren't trying to toy around at the back, and were constantly looking for avenues to exit Man City's initial press.

We weren't doing that, we just kept going backwards constantly; we have to dither less, and be more confident in passing forwards. Often time, I saw decent options to move out but we played it too safely, and then by passing backwards we put more pressure on ourselves.

2. Our wingers were too far forward a lot of the time, and it felt like there was a big gap between our players sometimes, leading to players looking isolated.

I do admit that maybe I'm overplaying this point; as I did notice that City also pushed one full back up, whilst leaving one close to the back line for a passing option. I still feel this is definitely one aspect we could've improved; it would have impacted our attack but at the very least we need to provide more passing options until we become more comfortable with playing from the back.

Our defensive shape was actually generally ok, and we gave out way less space to City than Chelsea in our box. Whilst we did have "iffy" moments, I didn't feel like we ever got exposed too badly.

It's good news, as combined with Chelsea's pretty toothless attack the main thing we should be concerned about is their press and Hudson-Odoi, but our defensive shape should be able to handle their attacks in general, and hopefully we can expose Chelsea like City did (ok our attack is not as fluent as theirs but I think we can hurt Chelsea).

Arsenal vs Man City (Second half):

I've already written quite a bit so I'll keep this short. We looked a lot more confident playing out from the back; this was the case even before City started pressing less.

I also noticed that Bellerin (and Lichtsteiner at times) dropped deeper more often and we were able to move the ball out of our half more quickly more often.

Just a word on Xhaka, in terms of playing from the back he really needs to improve (though admittedly he was a lot better in the 2nd half); considering his passing range, he made too many blunders in the first half, it aided in giving City confidence to squeeze our back line, and gave City some dangerous chances.
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
Maybe the time to be brave and drop Özil for a change? It's getting too easy for any team to play him. Crowd him, press him, force him deep and that's it.

If we cannot create enough to win, then let's at least not lose.

Auba - Laca - Iwobi
Luca - Xhaka - Ramsey
Lich - Sok - Mus - Hector
Cech

Sort out our team defense!

I have more emotional investment in Ramsey over Özil but still

We cant be changing tactics all wilynily

Yes form, opposition, etc etc matters but we gotta have a Base form from which we do changes

Auba - Laca - Özil
Ramsey Luca. Xhaka
Lich(Kola) - Sok - Mus - Hector
Leno

Are our best players
If you call that 433 or 4312 because Özil is in a free role matters little

I switched Xhaka and Ramsey's sides because I think that gives more options for long range passes and shots

Now If Ramsey does have a knock I personally would play Iwobi but would not be upset to see Matteo
 

krackpot

Established Member
Trusted ⭐
We have to be an offensive team. Our defense still sucks.

Might be best if we kept focus on our CAM(and above) positions, and just pack the defense.
 

BobP

Memri Fan
Liked this from Emery:

Goalkeepers can play like a player, to start short with the centre back or the right or left back. It is not compulsory to start each action that way. Maybe if the opposition is doing high pressing against us, then we need also to find another option and to play the ball long in the second action.

We are training for each situation. I want in each moment to know what is our best action to do in the match. This is our creative style and idea. We need with security, with confidence, to build in each match and training session. We are in this process.
 

BobP

Memri Fan

Similar patterns.

You can see that PSG have that extra bit of quality, though its difficult to say if our players would be confident enough to play some of those passes, considering our only competitive match so far has been against City.
 

SingmeasongSong

Right Sometimes
Ramsey can play in a two, but he has to be disciplined. Torreira and Ramsey can be an Arteta Ramsey midfield. Ramsey needs to concentrate on arriving late rather than running early. He needs to focus on winning the ball and build up before he even thinks about scoring. A choice needs to be made between Özil and Mkhi. Auba and Lacazette need to play together.

I'd play Iwobi for the balance and play Özil on the right in a 433. Without the ball it's a 433. With the ball Özil moves inside and Iwobi moves across.

.... ................... Auba.................
...........................Laca..Özil..
.................Ramsey.............Iwobi
...............................Torreira

Lacazette tends to drop in and Auba moves forward. If Ramsey plays like an actual midfielder he can co


I didn't understand it to be honest. Lacazette could do the exact same thing if instructed to do so. The fact that Ramsey played the whole half, got further instructed at half time and then withdrawn is telling in my opinion. We could play Ramsey alongside Torreira but Emery had the opportunity to play Ramsey alongside Guendouzi or Xhaka when we needed a goal. He decided against even having him on the pitch. I could be reading too much into it, but I get the feeling he is leaning towards a Xhaka Torreira midfield.

Love the line-up ! Pretty much to what I proposed, but with Matteo instead of Ramsey. But both looks fine
 

YeahBee

Terrible hot takes
Had Emery ever played 352?

-----------Auba------Laca-----
------------------Özil--------------
-----------Xhaka---Lucas------
Licht---------------------Bellerin
--------- Mus--Sok--Hol ------
------------------Leno------------

Kola when he is back
Ramsey could play for either cm
His runs wont leave us threadbare cuz we got 3cbs

Xhaka got more options... Lucas to can go forward if he feels like it
X, Ramsey and Lucas it doesn't matter how you pair them up, or with Matteo

Laca Auba and Özil is a front 3 that can threaten any defense and they get to play in their natural positions

We got Wingbacks who got the stamina and drive
 
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