Arsenal Tactics Talk

Discussion in 'Arsenal Talk' started by The_Roadrunner, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. #254

    #254 Well-Known Member

    I agree. I wonder if the gaffer has considered the 4-1-3-2 though!
  2. yybecause

    yybecause Formerly known as ArsenaLover

    while people think we are not balanced enough, I believe we are in position where we can literally field so many different set ups cause of our versatility, and all of those would be balanced.
    the only thing there is, is to field the right one
    krengon and celestis like this.
  3. YeahBee

    YeahBee Terrible hot takes

    Pretty weird that we played 433 preseason and yet in two of the toughest games of the season and the first to reverted back to 4231 with only short times of it looking like 433

    Sure somewhat good to go for it and best defense is a good offense yadda yadda

    but we are underdogs at this point and shoring up defense first and being pragmatic isnt uncalled for

    Two draws would have been nice
  4. Toby Andrl

    Toby Andrl Part Time Stuttgart Fan Trusted

    I liked the 433 press-sit back hybrid of the late West Ham game. I think it's got to do with the game opening up, but Laca, Mkhi and Auba/Welbeck as first wave of press, Ramsey as a lone second wave as most advanced of the mid 3 plus Xhaka and Torreira sitting back a bit while still keeping the lines tight was when we looked our best. Unfortunately it leaves Özil out of the frame as Mkhitaryan's work rate and dynamism fit better which essentially frees one of the CMs to play a more positional game.
  5. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    There is a way that we can be successful with Ramsey in our team.

    Regardless of Ramsey’s abilities, his playing style is similar to Lampard/Gerrard, whose game are not technique nor intelligent oriented.
    There are a few major weaknesses in their playing style, and if you want to be successful with them playing in the midfield, having a tactic that builds around them is a must.

    First, if you have your central midfielder being constantly out of defensive position, you need to have a boring/ultra-defensive tactic.
    And to build around someone non-technical in the midfield, it’s better to have a direct system that completely ignore the artistic side of football.
    Something like Mourinho/Benitez did to Chelsea/Liverpool, maybe we should’ve hired Tony Pulis instead of Emery.

    Second, after you have a boring defensive system, you need defensive players that play direct long ball and make no beautiful passes.
    A defensive forward like Drogba, defensive winger like Kuyt/Milner, two DM behind our non-skillful CM. We should sell both Özil and Mkhi and find someone that fit the system.

    Chelsea and Liverpool has achieved success with a defensive tactic. And you can see why Ramsey performed better on international stage, as he was allowed to run forward with bale with the whole ****ing team staying back.
    However, in Arsenal, we are proud to be an attacking/technical short passing team. And when Ramsey bombed forward, he left huge amount of space in central area.

    And you can see why England didn’t work well with Lampard and Gerrard playing together. First, Beckham and Joe Cole are not defensive wingers to cover the space they left.
    Second, they don’t have 2 DM that sit behind them to protect the back four.
    So the system is not right to hide their weaknesses.
    And what’s even worse is that their weaknesses have been magnified (because you have 2 of them on the pitch). The lack of creativity, technical abilities and defensive position awareness......
  6. hydrofluoric acid

    hydrofluoric acid Dishonest To His Federation

    Press. Press. Press. Where is your pressing?

    I don't feel we have show much improvement here. Feels like Emery has to teach them to press from level 0. It will take time.
    thierrytheking14 and dka91 like this.
  7. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

    I’m not against benching Xhaka but Torreira is not his replacement. Guendouzi is the one should be competiting with Xhaka.

    So if Xhaka is benched, we need a DM to do the defensive work (Torreira)(we need to get a backup in January because we have no other proper DM)

    We need a CM who can make good long passes and dictate tempo to replace xhaka (Guendouzi).

    And an AM who can play beautiful through pass and dribble through players with good close control (Özil)(Again we need to get a backup in January, since we’ve lost Cazorla we don’t have a silky AM who can play the AM role other than Özil).
  8. Nemetoss

    Nemetoss Well-Known Member

    Our midfield seems to have problems linking up with attack. Matteo's not at fault as he does more than enough to go forward, IMO the problem lies with the attackers not making themselves available enough. In the end of the second half when Özil dropped deep and started picking up balls our attack suddenly became much more fluid.
    RacingPhoton and dka91 like this.
  9. dka91

    dka91 Well-Known Member

    I think you have a very good point, I noticed that in the 2nd half Özil was beginning to dictate play a bit more and suddenly we looked much better because of it.

    Overall, the good news is that our attackers are dynamite, I have no doubt Aubameyang and Lacazette will score plenty of goals, I think just about everyone can see that though.

    Our defenders are sh*te, I'm sorry they are, any time Sokratis or Mustafi are put under any sort of pressure they make so many mistakes.

    Our pressing isn't cohesive and isn't really effective. The players need to work on this because like Hydro said, I can't see really see much improvement there.

    I could notice the signs at the beginning but it's like the players can't be a*sed any more.

    We need to press, because without the pressure on the ball we'll be butt f*cked over the top and on the counter if we lose the ball.

    Also do we have to be so suicidally high? Surely we can drop the line slightly lol, it makes me feel queasy because a small mistake means our entire backline is almost taken out entirely.
  10. berric

    berric Well-Known Member

    Cech to Guendouzi/Xhaka to Ramsey is really a bad and slow spine to start building our attack. All need 2-3 touches to avoid the press (if they manage). Combine that with Sokratis who is uncomfortable at receiving a ball from Cech to his weaker foot, and unreliability of Mustafi and it is just chaos at the moment.

    Leno must click if we want to set up like this. Leno to Toreirra to Özil seems much more fluid way to start building attacks if we ever want to maximize the potential of playing out of the back.
  11. krackpot

    krackpot Established Member

    2 wonderful strikers in form!

    Just go 4-3-1-2, Unai.
  12. ceadsearc

    ceadsearc Member

    A faster build up is required from the defence to midfield to AM phase... in the match against Cardiff, the passing from the defenders to guendouzi and xhaka and from guendouzi to xhaka was very slow at times and the midfielders need a few touches to avoid the press which means that the defenders defending the attackers had time to prevent any passes forward. When Özil came to the midfield more and demanded the ball in the earlier phases of the buildup - the play was able to move much faster.

    Torreira looks like a very neat and tidy player and I loved the weight and speed of his passes - it allowed the attack to flow much more quickly.
  13. krackpot

    krackpot Established Member

    not to mention that Özil zipped the ball into Laca, who only needed to flick it to Auba to finish.

    The poverty of this AFC team, when you have to search around the team to see if someone has enough technique to control a fast ball into the feet.:rolleyes:
  14. billyf

    billyf Active Member

    We have way too many soft players in our lineup to press and defend. You can't expect from players like Lacazette, Özil, Iwobi, Xhaka to tackle and press all the time. It's just not in their nature.
  15. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Established Member

    We'll probably have one of the best attacks in the league - 2nd most shots on target so far of all clubs - and one of the worst defences (certainly worst of the big clubs) - something like 4th most shots faced of all clubs so far. Think early Klopp Liverpool and that's more or less us right now.

    Whatever the tactics or formations are, the aim should be to maximise our strengths in attack and minimise our weaknesses in defence. We're not gonna be a balanced side this season, we're still gonna be pretty flawed come May, cos that's just the squad we have.

    Doesn't mean we should be tactically reckless as such, just that we should recognise what we are. For instance I wouldn't play three at the back, nor would I play three more defensively minded central midfielders if doing so meant diminishing our attacking potential.

    On the other hand I would try to sort out the goalkeeper issue, and I would play our best DM in Torreira, cos those are actions to minimise our weaknesses without compromising our strengths.

    Start with the strength: attack. If we attack better with our two main strikers then play them and figure out the best combination of Özil/Ramsey/Mkhi/Iwobi to support them. Then work your way backwards to midfield and defence, trying to get the most solid arrangement for the time being.

    Remember, this is a development season. We're not gonna be where we want to be by the end of it. The very earliest we should really be judging and expecting anything of this team will be at the start of next season.
    #254 and Football Manager like this.
  16. celestis

    celestis Arsenal-Mania Veteran Moderator

    I agree with this , there is plenty of versatility in our team . Think Cardiff 2nd half shows we will kick into gear soon .
  17. marting

    marting Well-Known Member

    Best post i have read for a while. We need to accept that we aint a great side, Emery hasnt got what he needs to turn up trees. What i am seeing is him being proactive with his half time subs and his willingness to change things as and when the occasion calls for it.

    I know theres a lot of complaints regarding Cech with the ball at his feet, But that aside i think his been in pretty good form shot stopping.
    ThlRama and dashsnow17 like this.
  18. dashsnow17

    dashsnow17 Established Member

    For what it's worth I like the idea of this formation, the 4-2-2-2. The fullbacks can push up high, the two DMs (Torreira and Xhaka/Guendouzi) can sit, the two CMs (any of Özil/Ramsey/Mkhi/Iwobi) can float about, and the boys up top can do their thing.

    Let's say we have five "marquee" attack minded players in Auba, Laca, Özil, Ramsey and Mkhi. We can't get all five on the pitch at the same time without compromising the defence. But we can get four on the pitch together, and this formation gets four on the pitch in positions they're comfortable with.


    But anyway whatever the formation, we should just try to enjoy this season and enjoy the great attackers we have, instead of lamenting what we already know we don't have.
  19. Football Manager

    Football Manager Copy & Paste Merchant

  20. Fewtch

    Fewtch Ozil at 10 And Emery Out

    Sokratis Mustafi Monreal
    Bellerin Torreira Matteo/Xhaka Kolasinac
    Lacazette Aubameyang
    This is a team that could potentially reach top 3 imo. It’s actually depressing that we won’t see this.

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