Arsenal's Stagnation: What Went Wrong?

[Gooner n Proud]

the underlying problem at arsenal is that our lack of preparation (in both tactics and training) is finally getting exposed.

i am of the belief that, especially in the last 5 years, the level of preparation and attention to detail at other clubs has simply eclipsed what we are doing.

just look at the evidence:
* slow-down in the rate at which players are improving, with more failures than ever before
* consistent criticism of our training methods from former players
* highly abnormal injury frequency and severity
* wenger planting himself on the bench for 90 minutes while other managers give continuous instruction
* etc etc

i think what worked for us in the past is no longer enough to yield results in the modern era. the attention to detail has been surpassed. new manager and training staff needed.

Most players actually feel dont prefer it when their manager is continuously yelling instructions at them.

 

[IslingtonBornandbred]

Most players actually feel dont prefer it when their manager is continuously yelling instructions at them.

Yep, but there are players certain groups. The ones that don't need instructions ala Vieira, Campbell, Gilberto because they have been around the block and know what needs to be done. There are those who are maverick arrogant idiots who can't be controlled or trusted to follow instructions i.e Balotelli, Taarabt, insert player with bad attitude here and there are those are are seemingly incapable of using common sense and showing any level of maturity in managing games and recognising when to attack, when to defend, when to sit back, when to do basic functions.

I'm afraid when you see Özil half heartedly try and control a ball and then show no real effort to win it back or affect the opponent and then see Iwobi strolling about whilst Xhaka is standing on the edge of the box picking his nose watching Cleverly unmarked in our area, all in the same attack, I'm afraid those sort of players and personalities don't just need instructions yelled at them. They need to be locked up in a dark room and have some sort of psychopath like Lehmann or Keown beat them black and blue until they understand. Edit: OK that might be an over reaction, but just a little.

For me, there are a few consistent issues. In our first Wenger teams, we had players who were capable of dealing with issues on the pitch and managing themselves and other players...I'm looking at the English back 5, Vieira, Campbell, Gilberto, Henry, Toure, Cole. These were men. Since those days, we've had a team of boys. It's like the substitute teacher who let's the kids run riot. We used to get shown up in the big games, when our naive players used to all attack at once i.e Clichy/Sagna and leave the likes of Arteta exposed...we used to get caught out in the UCL and by big top 4 teams....now it's happening with lesser teams as they get stronger.

Wenger's living in a eutopia dream world where he still thinks he's managing the invincibles and when the going get's tough Henry will step up and get us out of it.

The fact is, Wenger's gone through enough squads now since 2007 and it appears as though he hasn't learned anything because the same mistakes keep happening on the pitch and in the transfer market. I'm not sure he recognises there is even a problem which is potentially the biggest problem.

 

[bingobob]

We're stagnant/regressing in the league while also on our best trophy run in a long time. Weird how that happens but there it is. Back in 2008 or 2009 I wonder how many on here would have traded progress in the league for three FA Cups in four years. I dont know what my answer would be, but I do remember how much we all lamented not winning anything.

I do know that the Cups make me over look a lot of things after going a decade barren. Maybe too much, but I genuinely view last year as a success even though it was the worst league campaign I ever witnessed. Its a funny game.

Hugely different. In that period we had got to a Cl final in 06, we got to the CL semi final in 08/09 while we weren't always in the title picture those years we were still amongst the top four and in the latter stages of the CL. Fa cup wins would be vindication for how good we were at the time and actually been a decent return, finishing 4th, a Cl semi final and a Fa cup. We would have met the needs of young hungry players while going through a huge rebuilding period on and off the field, actually being competitive and landing silverware. All things considered our history and present would be different if we had secured FA cup wins and league cup wins in that period.

 

[Macho]

I thought that was a thing of the past with jack, but if he's still hot headed i fully agree.

Lol he was tryna lay hands on one of the opposition in an U23 match not too long ago. Was understandable though.

As for the topic at hand, this isn’t stagnation we’ve gone backwards. Reason why? I don’t even really know too many reasons.

Age old argument who’s to blame really Wenger or the owners?

 

[ArtetaCognition]

IMO the worst issue is that we are not improving our players anymore.

Except Monreal & Koscielny, who have we improved in the current squad?

Mustafi looked like a solid CB (although not world class) when he came here. Then after 6 months he became terrible. Sometimes playing like one of the worst CB in the league.

Xhaka who was considered as one of the best midfielder in the german league hasn't been performing for us. He was great last year at the end of the season but now it's like he's getting worse week after week.

Ramsey after his great 2013/14 season has never been able to find his form again or some consistency. He can have a very good game and 2 weeks later play like one of the worst CM in the league.

Cech: we were all expecting a top class keeper. He's not that bad but we all expected better. Once again he hasn't found any consistency since he arrived.

Bellerin who was considered as one of the most exciting prospect at RB is now looking like an average RB. Who will say today that he's one of the biggest prospect in Europe?

Özil was considered as the best CAM in the world before joining us. He was in the ballon d'Or shortlist.
Today nobody is considering him as one of the best CAM in Europe. Maybe not even in the PL.
We all thought when we signed him that Wenger was going to make him a better player. We failed miserably.

Even Coquelin. He was a solid DM when he has started to play. He was very useful even though he had obvious limitations. He was kinda exciting because he could do the dirty job that others couldn't do. Then Wenger tried to make him a B2B and he failed miserably.
Today Coquelin isn't even playing anymore.

This situation is really weird.
What has changed from the era when we developed Adebayor as one of the best striker in the league? When we made Song one of the best B2B in the league? When Cesc was one of the very best CAM in the world? When we could develop a guy like Hleb? When we developped Nasri?

There was a time we could play Wenger ball with the likes of Vela, Merida, Ramsey, Wilshere, Bendtner, we had a U21 squad who could beat WBA during the carling cup playing superbly well.
Today even our best squad can't play that good.

It was a time when every top clubs wanted to buy our players.
Today not anymore. Except Alexis no other player is attracting interest from any top club.

The saddest thing is that it's now Tottenham who are improving their players year after year. Eriksen, Alli, Rose, Walker, Kane, Son, Lloris, their CBs, they're all getting better under Pochettino.
We are the one now who are spending crazy money and who fail to develop our players or create a good squad.

It's not weird and it's not rocket science. A squad full of underperforming players is a direct result of a poor manager who can't get the best out of them.

There is no confusion to me. The complexities of modern football has passed Wenger (and portions of our fanbase) by and we are getting caught out each and every year.

 

[say yes]

Lol he was tryna lay hands on one of the opposition in an U23 match not too long ago. Was understandable though.

As for the topic at hand, this isn’t stagnation we’ve gone backwards. Reason why? I don’t even really know too many reasons.

Age old argument who’s to blame really Wenger or the owners?

It doesn’t need to be one or the other.

Wenger is not a top manager anymore. He’s lost the players and the fans, as well as a title to Leicester.

The owners have no interest in winning trophies and keep on giving him new contracts.

 

[Tosker]

the age when a manager, or player, who spends most of his career at one club, is well past - even a high percentage of fans switch allegiances regularly

football at the higher levels is now a commercial business, where making money is paramount, and players and managers are commodities, and that demands continued success and a quick turn around

Arsenal's owner, board and manager are totally ill-equipped for the modern age

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

I think the answer is pretty simple - the club got too comfortable down the years.

Too comfortable when it comes to taking risks.
Too comfortable when it comes to making tough decisions.
Too comfortable when it's obvious that a considerably big sections of the fansbase is growing inceasingly apathetic towards the manager/the team.
Too comfortable with the situation up top in the Boardroom and in Management.

 

[say yes]

the age when a manager, or player, who spends most of his career at one club, is well past - even a high percentage of fans switch allegiances regularly

football at the higher levels is now a commercial business, where making money is paramount, and players and managers are commodities, and that demands continued success and a quick turn around

Arsenal's owner, board and manager are totally ill-equipped for the modern age

They do?!

I don’t think I know a single person in the UK that has ever changed which club they support.

 

[say yes]

I think the answer is pretty simple - the club got too comfortable down the years.

Too comfortable when it comes to taking risks.
Too comfortable when it comes to making tough decisions.
Too comfortable when it's obvious that a considerably big sections of the fansbase is growing inceasingly apathetic towards the manager/the team.
Too comfortable with the situation up top in the Boardroom and in Management.

Too comfortable not challenging for the title.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

I guess the list goes on and on, in the end it all comes down to the simple fact that the Leaders of the club got too comfortable/complacent.

 

[Mark Tobias]

They do?!

I don’t think I know a single person in the UK that has ever changed which club they support.

I once met a guy who changed from Liverpool to Chelsea but he was shamed everywhere he went... Before and after he changed

 

[bingobob]

I guess the list goes on and on, in the end it all comes down to the simple fact that the Leaders of the club got too comfortable/complacent.

Oddly enough the only guys who never got comfortable are the ones who had to force a move from the club. Fabregas, RVP, Nasri those guys could have stayed in a comfort zone but left for higher demands and expectations. Ultimately they could have all stayed here became legends but gambled and won a few things and then disappeared. Alexis looks like he is falling into the same category.

 

[BobP]

I think the answer is pretty simple - the club got too comfortable down the years.

Too comfortable when it comes to taking risks.
Too comfortable when it comes to making tough decisions.
Too comfortable when it's obvious that a considerably big sections of the fansbase is growing inceasingly apathetic towards the manager/the team.
Too comfortable with the situation up top in the Boardroom and in Management.

It's almost like they're testing how far they can go without doing anything before things start to fall apart.

And Wenger says this is a club which isn't afraid of taking risks. We're as conservative as the muck which makes or has made up most of our board.

 

[Tosker]

I once met a guy who changed from Liverpool to Chelsea but he was shamed everywhere he went... Before and after he changed

it may be rare for an older fan to change allegiance, but this is not true of teenagers these days - I think if there were any statistics on the breakdown of fans' ages you'd find a big difference between us and ManC for instance

 

[Mark Tobias]

it may be rare for an older fan to change allegiance, but this is not true of teenagers these days - I think if there were any statistics on the breakdown of fans' ages you'd find a big difference between us and ManC for instance

No doubt. ten years ago I didn't know a single Chelsea or City fan here in SA... Now they're everywhere.

 

[samshere]

I don't even know what the club are doing. We kept Sanchez and Özil, and what should have been a statement of intent that we're not to be bullied is now looking like a massive clusterfeck. It'd would've been better if we got rid of them and got in replacements even at the risk of angering the fans. Fans are reactive and very rarely know what's good for the club. Our financial situation has improved but we'll be using it to absorb the impact of players leaving rather than getting in new players. Things are bad now, and will probably get worse with the departures.

 

[Jasard]

No identity. No plan. Reactive and not proactive. No long term planning. No ambition. No belief.

 

[Macho]

It doesn’t need to be one or the other.

Wenger is not a top manager anymore. He’s lost the players and the fans, as well as a title to Leicester.

The owners have no interest in winning trophies and keep on giving him new contracts.

This is also my opinion. Its ultimately both -a relationship born out of convenience for the people that "matter".

Wonder what happens when Wenger eventually goes.

 

[Big Poppa]

We're stagnant/regressing in the league while also on our best trophy run in a long time. Weird how that happens but there it is. Back in 2008 or 2009 I wonder how many on here would have traded progress in the league for three FA Cups in four years. I dont know what my answer would be, but I do remember how much we all lamented not winning anything.

I do know that the Cups make me over look a lot of things after going a decade barren. Maybe too much, but I genuinely view last year as a success even though it was the worst league campaign I ever witnessed. Its a funny game.

Winning big games in the latter stages of the CL and competing for the league title until the final day of the season for me trump winning the FA Cup by a significant margin. It's tough for a club like Arsenal now to attract world class players unless we are in the top competitions fighting for the biggest trophies.